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Do soldiers deserve any special kind of respect? watch

  • View Poll Results: Do soldiers deserve special respect over other professions?
    Yes, unconditionally
    89
    29.67%
    Only in certain cases
    112
    37.33%
    No, it is just another profession
    99
    33.00%

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    (Original post by Riderz)
    Eh?

    If there had never been any soldiers? Are you really that naive?

    If so then I see no point having a discussion with you. When you come back down to earth and want a sensible conversation feel free to talk, if your going to live in happy la-la land then there really is no point.

    A lot of Jews were killed, or persecuted by ordinary civilians, not soldiers. Go learn some history before thinking yourself so smart.
    You're the one who started with ridiculous hypotheticals like "WE'D ALL B SPEAKIN GERMAN!!!!111one" etc. which is embarrassing tbh. You fail to recognise it is armies which cause this situation to arise in the first place hence why they people have to die.
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    You're the one who started with ridiculous hypotheticals like "WE'D ALL B SPEAKIN GERMAN!!!!111one" etc. which is embarrassing tbh. You fail to recognise it is armies which cause this situation to arise in the first place hence why they people have to die.
    It's really not.

    It's tyrannical leaders who misuse their armies, not the existance of armies themselves.

    Proof? Switzerland.

    Even politically neutral countries have armies, to ensure theor own protection.
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    1. It's symbolic, as is everything about the Queen nowadays, it's the government who holds all the cards. You seriously think she's the one who was behind the invasion of Iraq? Please.

    2. You bottled it.
    1) The British government control the armed forces on behalf of the Queen, but she's well within her rights to take control of it as the commander-in-chief and would do so if the government did something crazy like, for example, getting the army to slaughter people because of their race.

    2) Why did I bottle it? The Army, as it is now, serves the interests of the British people (as in, they're doing what the government we elected thinks is right for them to do).
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    No, you're talking about some soldiers. In 99% of the cases you talk about, the soldiers were picked to do their job because they were deemed politically reliable and willing to follow their leaders, no matter what they were asked to do. They should not be grouped along with the honest, consciencious men who do their duty because they believe it's the right thing to do.
    The Taliban believe they're doing the right thing, it doesn't justify anything though does it? It also doesn't mean they're deserving of any special respect from us just because they're risking their lives (it's a lot more dangerous than being a British soldier might I add) for something they believe is right.
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    I don't agree with the wars currently being fought by the British Army. I do not agree with the 'logic' behind them. Any threat to the UK is largely as a result of the UK's previous aggressive actions in foreign countries.
    I am generally a pacifist and dislike the idea of respecting someone who kills people as part of their job.
    They CHOSE to be in the army and they get paid for it.
    I dislike the sort of 'hero' status and 'patriotism' which stifles debate.
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    (Original post by Riderz)
    You do know that they accept a lot of graduates with degrees as officers?
    For the record, having a degree as an officer is the norm, and in quite a few cases the minimum requirement. Getting in as an officer without a degree is rare these days.
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    (Original post by Riderz)
    You've evidently never spent much time around soldiers, airmen or sailors then?

    You do know that they accept a lot of graduates with degrees as officers? And if you had the slightest idea about the miliarty you would know there are very few more mentally stimulating jobs around. Everyday is different and an officers decision making ability is brilliant, much better than your average manager in civvy street. Their decisions are life and death, not just for themselves but for their men as well. Not only that they have to make them in highly stressful situations in seconds.

    Dont mock the forces unless your prepared to do what they do. Remember these guys are protecting your rights, and your freedoms. They dont do it all for themselves.
    I am aware that graduates join the army I was speaking of the "few I know". I was not referring to commanders/strategists etc. just front line soldiers who take orders. I am not going to mock something that I would willingly do otherwise it wouldn't be worth mocking. I may choose to mock chavs, this should not mean I am willing to be chav. I wasn't mocking the forces I was saying that they don't deserve unconditional, special respect as they are doing a job for money.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    It's really not.

    It's tyrannical leaders who misuse their armies, not the existance of armies themselves.

    Proof? Switzerland.

    Even politically neutral countries have armies, to ensure theor own protection.
    Yes so? This thread is about soldiers themselves not governments. If a fascist political party was elected here, they'd still have an army to misuse and soldiers would still kill innocents as a result.
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    The Taliban believe they're doing the right thing, it doesn't justify anything though does it? It also doesn't mean they're deserving of any special respect from us just because they're risking their lives (it's a lot more dangerous than being a British soldier might I add) for something they believe is right.
    Who says it doesn't? Aside from their questionable rules of engagement and the way they want to run the country, what's so ignoble about believing you're defending your country?
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    They deserve boundless respect over other groups such as Muslims who would never lift a finger to protect this country.
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    I don't thinks so. The majority of people i know who joined the army did so to allow them to "shoot ragheads" a
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    Yes so? This thread is about soldiers themselves not governments. If a fascist political party was elected here, they'd still have an army to misuse and soldiers would still kill innocents as a result.

    The point is you're fundamentally mixing the two in order to be controversial.


    Or, as we often call it: trolling :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Shortarse1)
    Anyone who is only there for the money does not last long - for £1000 a month I wouldn't call it reasonably well paid either.

    Yeah but its all disposable income
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    (Original post by Chumbaniya)
    For me this is an awkward issue. I don't agree with the unconditional support of soldiers because this carries with it a tendency to turn a blind eye to wrongs within the military and often goes along with a "My country right or wrong" way of thinking. I don't think that being a member of the military should make you exempt from criticism and people sign up for all sorts of reasons, not just out of a selfless desire to protect people who need protecting. A friend of mine who's worked for the MoD and been to military careers events where there were soldiers talking about the fact they liked the idea of going out to kill people. That doesn't deserve any respect. There's also the fact that because soldiers are contracted to follow orders, they don't really have any opportunity to employ personal moral considerations, and it sours respect one might have for soldiers when you realise they've signed themselves up so that the government can send them into morally dubious wars like Iraq.

    However, at the same time I understand that soldiers do a very difficult job in very difficult circumstances. Going on a tour of duty means making sacrifices and putting yourself in danger, and of course I have respect for people that manage to take on a job like that.
    This. I wouldn't say my respect is unconditional but unless I had reason not to I would have a lot of respect for a member of the armed forces. I think the real shame is the other professions that deserve more respect and recognition than they get. Not everyone that joins the army is uneducated either.

    Also I would highly recommend watching the play Black Watch if you get a chance, very thought provoking.
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    I've often heard recently how soldiers should be treated with more respect and they don't get enough praise and admiration from the public here in the UK compared to the extremely patriotic USA or North Korea but do they? They aren't conscripts so they've joined the army through their own choice and they are getting paid a salary for it (a few are voluntary I know but generally speaking) so they are fully aware of the risks and dangers involved when they sign up and the fact that they may be sent to war but still do it for various reasons, money being one of them as well as the opportunity to learn skills and get experience which will help them acquire a successful career later on down the line.

    What about the phrase "our troops our fighting for our country and dying in Afghanistan for us" etc? Well yes they have been fighting in Afghanistan and dying, but most people are against the war and want troops to pull out and most were against the Iraq war to begin with. They're not fighting for "our country" because our country isn't being invaded, they're fighting for political purposes in this case to appease our most important ally, the US.

    When you sign up to join the army and go and fight in wars you may not necessarily agree with, you have effectively consented to do anything the government wants you to do. If the BNP were therefore elected by some miracle and told the army to forcibly deport all ethnic minorities and kill the ones who resist, soldiers would comply even though it is completely morally unjustifiable. Does this kind of submission to government by people warrant respect and would more wars be prevented if soldiers didn't provide governments with such a level of obedience?

    Note there are other jobs which are very difficult and dangerous and may be more morally acceptable, e.g. being a doctor, safety inspector or an aid worker.
    yes doctors help heal the sick, but soldiers fight for our country and protect our ways of life, without soldiers, our country will be overridden by enemies
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    Also regarding the Taliban - I think would have to respect their courage and conviction for risking their lives to fight for what they believe in. I don't agree with them but they're also putting their lives on the line.
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    (Original post by big-boss-91)
    yes doctors help heal the sick, but soldiers fight for our country and protect our ways of life, without soldiers, our country will be overridden by enemies
    The protective aspect of the armed forces is certainly a very positive thing, but it is naive to claim that the only thing the British armed forces do is protect the interests of the British people. We haven't been threatened with invasion since World War II and the last two major conflicts we've been involved with haven't had anything to do with British interests, they've been invasions of other nations. There are some operations the army gets involved with which are of great importance, and some which I feel aren't in the interest of the British people and aren't really justifiable.

    It's not really on topic, but I am very uncomfortable with the phrase "protect our way of life" because it carries such strong connotations of xenophobia and using armed conflict to suppress others who do not share our culture.
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    If they were fighting for politically good reasons, freedom, against oppression, and a genuinely overall sincerely good cause, yes they have my respect.

    If theyre in a war to get oil, remove the US's rogue on puppets, or 'war on imaginary terror;

    Then I dont give a **** about any thing they do in those wars, even though its not their fault, theyre just doing what theyre told to do (Indifferent)
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    Of course they do. Any member of the armed forces, not just soldiers, on a tour of duty deserves respect. They're putting their lives on the line for the people of this country. Regardless of why they're fighting, these people are willing to die for the people of this country. That commands a certain level of respect. I couldn't do what they do, but I admire them for it.

    Yes - I know some soldiers have disgraced themselves during active duty in Iraq and Afghan, but I really cannot be arsed to go into that.
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    (Original post by Chumbaniya)
    The protective aspect of the armed forces is certainly a very positive thing, but it is naive to claim that the only thing the British armed forces do is protect the interests of the British people. We haven't been threatened with invasion since World War II and the last two major conflicts we've been involved with haven't had anything to do with British interests, they've been invasions of other nations. There are some operations the army gets involved with which are of great importance, and some which I feel aren't in the interest of the British people and aren't really justifiable.

    It's not really on topic, but I am very uncomfortable with the phrase "protect our way of life" because it carries such strong connotations of xenophobia and using armed conflict to suppress others who do not share our culture.
    i know we didn't have a threat of invasion in 70 odd years, but the current conflict is necessary to suppress the terrorists, plus we don't use armed forces to suppress those who do not share our culture you got it the other way round where the terrorist want to bring a islamic state on our shores
 
 
 
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