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    (Original post by Crimsonchilli)
    yes

    not a single one in the top 5

    and only 5 in the top 50

    http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...Creverse_false
    You do have to take into account that America is 5 times the population of the UK though
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    (Original post by Lewk)
    You do have to take into account that America is 5 times the population of the UK though

    well, no not really.

    We have been higher ranked in the past, and all I was saying is that our ranking have already started to slip.

    And secondly, Universities are increasingly international now days. The population being bigger or smaller has very little influence, otherwise China and India would have many more top ranking institutions and countries like Denmark and other Nordics would have nigh on none.

    The UKs problem isn't that we dont have enough good people wanting to study at them, its that there simply isnt enough money around to finance it. As a result unis are looking more and more at increasing their international student levels as fees are much higher. And to be honest I find it pretty sad that I cant for example go to the uni I want not because I'm not good enough but because some foreign student is going to pay 8 times my fees.

    The reason the US unis are so good is that they simply have so much money. Harvard for example has an endownment of something rediculous like $250billion compared to say Cambridges $5billion.
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    (Original post by jk1986)
    As I understand it this is incorrect, non-EU students pay as much for their courses as EU students + HEFCE (UK gov).
    However the UK government is still paying much of the true cost for the education on EU students, as opposed to non-EU students not having anything paid by the UK govt.
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    (Original post by invictus_veritas)
    Yes but you didn't read what i said: either British students should pay
    £10 000 or foreign students should be banned i.e. universities get most of their money from foreign students, but British students are unable to compete fairly because the universities need the cash. Therefore a rise to £10 000 would make competition a lot fairer for British students as they would effectively pay the same, or almost the same as foreign students.

    I am actually in favour of a rise, not banning foreign students as I think more competition is better, but fair competition is also better and the cap just causes competition distortions which disadvantage home students.

    you should have rad what I actually posted...
    Your argument is based on the assumption that universities are actively discriminating against British students on the basis of non-EU students paying more. Prove it.
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    (Original post by invictus_veritas)
    It should happen or foreign students should be banned: it's really unfair that the best British students can't compete fairly for places with foreign students. This allows for that to happen so is a much fairer system. If your degree isn't worth the cost of you doing it then you shouldn't be doing it in the first place.
    If foreign students were banned, home fees would need to rise further.

    (I expect someone has already point this out to you though)
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    (Original post by Quady)
    If foreign students were banned, home fees would need to rise further.

    (I expect someone has already point this out to you though)
    Yes, basically I think home and internationals should pay the same and fees should be set by the market. If this were the case there would be fair competition. Universities in Britain could remain the best in the world, instead of actually facing relative decline, which all but the very best are.
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    (Original post by invictus_veritas)
    Yes, basically I think home and internationals should pay the same and fees should be set by the market. If this were the case there would be fair competition. Universities in Britain could remain the best in the world, instead of actually facing relative decline, which all but the very best are.

    I know you're still trying to argue your point in vain, but you're addressing the issue of competition rather than the prospect of universities collapsing under financial strain which is what this thread is about.
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    Personally I feel that if the current lot aren't willing to pay for our education then I'm not willing to pay for their bus passes and pensions. Or healthcare.

    I'll pay for everyone's who's under 35 at the moment though.
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    Had this occured before I went to university, I in all likelihood would NOT have gone to university just on the basis of the cost consideration and I thought that was what the government wanted to avoid? I guess I'm exempt from it now as a postgrad though since my fees are paid for by a funding body xd
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    I won't go to university if they go to that high
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    Damn tories!
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    Why is everyone complaining so much?
    Do you honestly think they will jump from £3200 to £10000 in one go!!??
    The max it will go to i think is around £5000, and that's the very very top
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    (Original post by delasandro)
    Why is everyone complaining so much?
    Do you honestly think they will jump from £3200 to £10000 in one go!!??
    The max it will go to i think is around £5000, and that's the very very top
    You evidently don't understand the level of stupidity among the Conservative party.
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    (Original post by delasandro)
    Why is everyone complaining so much?
    Do you honestly think they will jump from £3200 to £10000 in one go!!??
    The max it will go to i think is around £5000, and that's the very very top
    So you don't think they'll go f for a 150% rise rise like last time then?

    Why not?
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    (Original post by DougieG)
    You evidently don't understand the level of stupidity among the Conservative party.
    And who brought tuition fees in initially, then more than doubled them? Then proceeded to try push 50% of school leavers to attend university without providing much more funding for expansion.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    So you don't think they'll go f for a 150% rise rise like last time then?

    Why not?
    lol u idiot..
    150% rise of £3200 is not £10000!
    150% rise is about £8000!

    And no, if you say 150% rise - whether in your Maths is £8000, or £10000 - i don't think they'll jump that high, as i have clearly said before that i think £5000 max.
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    (Original post by delasandro)
    lol u idiot..
    150% rise of £3200 is not £10000!
    150% rise is about £8000!

    And no, if you say 150% rise - whether in your Maths is £8000, or £10000 - i don't think they'll jump that high, as i have clearly said before that i think £5000 max.
    I didn't say anything about 10k.

    You said they wouldnt rise to more than 5k with no source/backing reasoning.

    Yet last time a 150% rise came in which if replicated would be a bit over 8k (so closer to 10k than 5 if you're obcessed with the 10k figure).

    Have you read much of the evidence to the Browne Review? Most of it works on figures of 7-9k, but 10k isn't out of the question.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    I didn't say anything about 10k.

    You said they wouldnt rise to more than 5k with no source/backing reasoning.

    Yet last time a 150% rise came in which if replicated would be a bit over 8k (so closer to 10k than 5 if you're obcessed with the 10k figure).

    Have you read much of the evidence to the Browne Review? Most of it works on figures of 7-9k, but 10k isn't out of the question.
    Ok my bad, sorry :o:

    BUT, why did u even ask me the question about the 150% rise when i had already stated i dont think it will be more than £5000.

    And about no source/backing bit, i'm not saying that it won't go past 5k, i'm just saying that i personally feel they won't do it as it will make the party look extremely bad in nearly everyones eyes
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    (Original post by Wednesday Bass)
    And who brought tuition fees in initially, then more than doubled them? Then proceeded to try push 50% of school leavers to attend university without providing much more funding for expansion.
    I didn't say a lot of New Labour's policies weren't stupid too. The 50% target especially.

    But there is a difference between that and pushing student debt up to about £40,000 per person in a period where debt has caused the greatest economic crisis of our time. You have to be a special kind of ideology-driven moron to do that.

    As did New Labour in many cases.
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    (Original post by DougieG)
    I didn't say a lot of New Labour's policies weren't stupid too. The 50% target especially.

    But there is a difference between that and pushing student debt up to about £40,000 per person in a period where debt has caused the greatest economic crisis of our time. You have to be a special kind of ideology-driven moron to do that.

    As did New Labour in many cases.
    Or realise that paying £3000 per year, when the cost to educate someone is actually significantly higher than that, is not sustainable, and will come at a considerable cost the taxpayer which will not be reclaimed by normal means. That money may well be paid back through income tax and other salary related taxation, but the money is not being pumped into the universities properly - this is why tuition fees need to be raised, under the current system there's no guarantee that the government will fund the rest of the cost.

    I admit that £10k is a hell of a lot of money and it won't come instantly, it'll more likely jump to a closer figure (like £6k), but it'll make people weigh up whether it's of any benefit to go to university and make sure that our universities become for the academically capable - not everyone.
 
 
 
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