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University fees 'could triple to £10,000' watch

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    (Original post by Phantom_X)
    well before we get down to business teaddict, I rather enjoy imagining you as david cameron
    You think I am that much of a ****? Yeah thanks phantom... not nice at all.


    x
    Answer me this simple question. How does the policy operate now? Now scrap the ridiculous notion of 50% attendance to University, how about 20% or 30%? Something more realistic. Now remove all funding for mickey mouse courses and the institutions no longer needed.
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    "ooh lets cut all the mickey mouse degrees, a concept with as much weight behind it as political correctness and a pseudo-solution on the same level as exterminating benefit scroungers. Also, when debating it, lets name courses that dont actually exist like madonna studies which are actually module titles that have been disproportioned to make a decent story for a stupid population"

    ffs 'mickey mouse degrees' (n.b. what a ******* **** soundbite) arent the basis for all unding problems.
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    Reading tsr makes me more right wing every day or , especially now Ed Milliband is in control of Labour
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    (Original post by Wednesday Bass)
    Been reading through your posts in this thread, and you keep going on about the cost of increasing loans for students on government spending. But I've not seen you take into account the fact that, AFAIK, the coalition has no plans to carry on the, quite frankly, ridiculous push to get 50% of school leavers to attend university. Without raising tuition fees, that in itself will lower government spending on loans. And on the whole, people with a good degree from a top university will pay more back in various forms of tax than they borrowed to put them through university.

    Until it sets out a plan to stop this, i will assume that most schools will want their students to go to university, or at least have plans to. Brown tried it by providing more colleges for vocational studies and more money toward apprenticeships, without the intended results. In fact, the labour council in my area set up a college in association with the school to try get the unemployed folk on the estates into work- and it ended up closing down after 3 years due to a lack of demand.

    on top of this, with a tightening job market, and jobs for school leavers tending to be very menial, well have a ******** more people on the dole more than anything else. I took a year out after college, and tried to find a full time job on a 'school leaver' status. the best i could find was a shelf stacker at tescos, and i had to work as a private tutor on the side, something not everyone has the necessary ability to do.
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    (Original post by adam_zed)
    "ooh lets cut all the mickey mouse degrees, a concept with as much weight behind it as political correctness and a pseudo-solution on the same level as exterminating benefit scroungers. Also, when debating it, lets name courses that dont actually exist like madonna studies which are actually module titles that have been disproportioned to make a decent story for a stupid population"

    ffs 'mickey mouse degrees' (n.b. what a ******* **** soundbite) arent the basis for all unding problems.
    Media studies, journalism, fine art, computer games programming e.t.c.

    Nearly, every art degree in art uni.

    P.S. Inb4 rage
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    (Original post by Wednesday Bass)
    As they are, if you don't earn enough to have paid your loan back after 25 years (or you turn 65) the loan is written off.
    surely they are going to lose a massive amount?
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    You think I am that much of a ****? Yeah thanks phantom... not nice at all.




    Answer me this simple question. How does the policy operate now? Now scrap the ridiculous notion of 50% attendance to University, how about 20% or 30%? Something more realistic. Now remove all funding for mickey mouse courses and the institutions no longer needed.
    Oh teaddict, you know i love you really

    anyway,

    cutting the 50% target is going to be troublesome. Most schools want their kids to go to university as do most students in fact. especially when you have a tight job market with companies offering very few internships that are worthwhile (the accenture scheme i was on offered 10 places and there were about 4-5 hundred people applied just for my dept) youll find more people who are simply 'mediocre' by todays standards working ****** jobs in tescos or more probably, the dole. On top of this, i reckon the best any government could do is cut the number to about 30% or so , which would still be very expensive- definitely not enough to balance the costs of higher fees anyway.

    cutting mickey mouse courses will not solve the problem either. its like a drop in the ocean in comparison to the other challenges facing higher ed.
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    (Original post by Simplicity)
    Media studies, journalism, fine art, computer games programming e.t.c.

    Nearly, every art degree in art uni.

    P.S. Inb4 rage
    arent you the kid who thinks hes the **** because he does maths ?
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    (Original post by Simplicity)
    Media studies, journalism, fine art, computer games programming e.t.c.

    Nearly, every art degree in art uni.

    P.S. Inb4 rage
    Im not going to rage, im just in a miffed mood which has manifested into my present attitude and cant understand why people insist on viewing situations with such simplicity.

    All those degrees appear relevant and useful to all those who want to go into those industries. are you telling me that a budding cameraman should choose classics over media studies?
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    (Original post by Phantom_X)
    well before we get down to business teaddict, I rather enjoy imagining you as david cameron

    Your in line with me in terms of university funding mainly. Fees should rise to cover the costs, after all, we are both choosing to go into education with the idea of getting good jobs, and that cant be supplied by the government. However, what you are continunally failing to understand is that the government isnt going to borrow an extra £7,000 per student to cover their tuition costs with the price increase. Somewhere along the line, the students will have to make the shortfall, and tbh, not everyone has an exta £7,000 per year (ie.21,000) hiding under their beds to pay for their childs education- in particular poor and middle class families.

    Thus it comes to several options for students and universities. The student either borrows off a family member assuming they can. Or they borrow from a commercial bank, with added interest that accumlates for however long it isnt paid off (including if a student decides to take a PGCE or the GDL) or they dont go to university at all. if the latter occurs, there may be great rejoice on tsr, but what you actually have is more young people on the dole as a result of there not being enough jobs in shops, car garages etc to meet the excess supply of labour. a service economy requires graduates who are educated, not those with a mediocre set of a levels and no real world experience whatsoever. You also then create a workforce founded on mediocrity.

    On the issue of upfront fees, this will probably happen. Why would a university want to take on a student who cant necessarily pay them- particularly in a time of austerity ? again, another rich poor divide which is absolutely fantastic.

    i dont know what the tories or 'coaition' are playing at, but they are ******* stupid to do so. In fact, this policy alone will wipe out the liberal democrats for an extremely long time.
    I dont know why you muslims even bother going to 'kuffar' universities, learning 'kuffar' knowledge.

    Hopefully the indigenous population will be put first, as opposed to you muslims.
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    (Original post by Phantom_X)
    Oh teaddict, you know i love you really

    anyway,

    cutting the 50% target is going to be troublesome. Most schools want their kids to go to university as do most students in fact. especially when you have a tight job market with companies offering very few internships that are worthwhile (the accenture scheme i was on offered 10 places and there were about 4-5 hundred people applied just for my dept) youll find more people who are simply 'mediocre' by todays standards working ****** jobs in tescos or more probably, the dole. On top of this, i reckon the best any government could do is cut the number to about 30% or so , which would still be very expensive- definitely not enough to balance the costs of higher fees anyway.

    cutting mickey mouse courses will not solve the problem either. its like a drop in the ocean in comparison to the other challenges facing higher ed.
    It will be difficult - But by cutting the targets and courses, we will be removing huge amounts of costs - and even then the Universities sector is still good investment.

    But we do need a systematic review of our education system to make it more streamlined and comprehensive in terms of student and business requirements.
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    (Original post by adam_zed)
    surely they are going to lose a massive amount?
    If we say it'll be about £50,000 for a three year degree. Starting salary could be along the lines of £22,000, after NI contributions, income tax, and student loan deductions that's just under £16,500. So about £5,500 per year in tax from their salary alone alone. Take into account other taxes (VAT, alcohol, tobacco, etc.) it's even more. They'll make more money from the person through other forms of tax, on the whole, if they have a good degree from a good uni.
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    (Original post by Green And Blue)
    I dont know why you muslims even bother going to 'kuffar' universities, learning 'kuffar' knowledge.

    Hopefully the indigenous population will be put first, as opposed to you muslims.
    lovely.

    actually, im rather agnostic, thanks (y)

    ps. muslim= religion / indigenous= race
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    What if we just raised the entry requirements? How many people get into uni with less than 240 points? Shouldn't happen.
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    If this does happen, in how many years will it take charge? i cant see it being put into practice for this years applicants.
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    Pathetic, I know there aren't many other options but things are hard enough for students like me as it is (Not entitled to any grants because my dad earns *just* over the threshold even after taking a 50% pay cut. Due to the mortgage we were struggling as it was, now things are just scary)

    Yes because I just happen to have an extra £7000 lying around in my flat, how the hell are we expected to pay for this.
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    (Original post by adam_zed)
    "ooh lets cut all the mickey mouse degrees, a concept with as much weight behind it as political correctness and a pseudo-solution on the same level as exterminating benefit scroungers. Also, when debating it, lets name courses that dont actually exist like madonna studies which are actually module titles that have been disproportioned to make a decent story for a stupid population"

    ffs 'mickey mouse degrees' (n.b. what a ******* **** soundbite) arent the basis for all unding problems.
    Totally agree. Criticising Mickey Mouse degrees is fast becoming the "THEY'RE TAKING OUR JOBS" rant for students. They're the go-to blame for all problems concerning university from people with little/no knowledge of what they're talking about. But it kinda sounds logical if you don't think about it too much (who needs to think about a constructive solution when you can blame it all on someone else?) and instills an "Us against them" mentality which has always turned out so well in history...

    Anyway, on topic:

    Like I said in the graduate tax thread, funding is going to have a rude awakening with the cuts in university funding and scraping back money wherever possible. People were treating the idea of a graduate tax as if the tax in itself will result in them having to pay astronomical fees, when really the massive fees are coming in anyway no matter what system is chosen. The principle of the graduate tax was to spread the burden of the stupidly high fees in a way which is sympathetic to individual situations. Will be interesting (as an observer) to watch how this progresses, but if I was in high school right now I'd be pretty worried to say the least.
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    (Original post by Phantom_X)
    Until it sets out a plan to stop this, i will assume that most schools will want their students to go to university, or at least have plans to. Brown tried it by providing more colleges for vocational studies and more money toward apprenticeships, without the intended results. In fact, the labour council in my area set up a college in association with the school to try get the unemployed folk on the estates into work- and it ended up closing down after 3 years due to a lack of demand.

    on top of this, with a tightening job market, and jobs for school leavers tending to be very menial, well have a ******** more people on the dole more than anything else. I took a year out after college, and tried to find a full time job on a 'school leaver' status. the best i could find was a shelf stacker at tescos, and i had to work as a private tutor on the side, something not everyone has the necessary ability to do.
    As Teaddict said, cutting targets and courses will be difficult, but it's necessary if we want to maintain our university's reputation in the world rankings.

    It's not just schools leavers the job market is tough for. If you need the income you take the job - it's as simple as that. You were lucky enough to have the ability to tutor on the side; if people haven't used their education to the best to get them to where they want to be, more fool them. It's the states job to provide you with an education, if you don't make the most of it then you shouldn't expect to have the better jobs.
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    (Original post by mistermojo)
    Pathetic, I know there aren't many other options but things are hard enough for students like me as it is (Not entitled to any grants because my dad earns *just* over the threshold even after taking a 50% pay cut. Due to the mortgage we were struggling as it was, now things are just scary)

    Yes because I just happen to have an extra £7000 lying around in my flat, how the hell are we expected to pay for this.
    PLEASE look up how unis are funded before you post...

    You only pay back tuition fee loans once you've graduated.

    And I'm in a just over the threshold family too, so I know it's hard - but tuition fees aren't affected by family income, and there are no upfront fees.
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    (Original post by mistermojo)
    Pathetic, I know there aren't many other options but things are hard enough for students like me as it is (Not entitled to any grants because my dad earns *just* over the threshold even after taking a 50% pay cut. Due to the mortgage we were struggling as it was, now things are just scary)

    Yes because I just happen to have an extra £7000 lying around in my flat, how the hell are we expected to pay for this.
    You'll be expected to pay for it like you pay for the current £3,200 tuition right now.
 
 
 
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