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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Great post, rep for you sir.
    Thanks. I only wish that the conservatives would address it. If you're going to screw over an entire generation by creating vast amounts of debt among them to pay for your own generation's greed.

    What this lot also forget is that a degree isn't simply to the benefit of the person taking it. We need a wide range of academic degrees in order to be competitive in the world market and discouraging bright people form going to uni with huge amounts of debt is not a good idea.

    This could quite easily be paid for by restructuring the system. It's never going to be popular on TSR, but a lot of these ex-polys and the like have literally no benefit to the economy. People going to them think they're getting a degree but end up in as much debt as if they went to Cambridge and have practically no added salary to show for it. I fail to see how a Media Studies degree from an ex-poly makes people better journalists than if they took an apprenticeship at the local newspaper or radio station. The idea that university is an academic pursuit is an idea that is unfortunately sorely lacking these days. I daresay I'll get negged for this post, but if we're going to ask for free universities we have to be realistic about it and look at what really requires a university education and what doesn't.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Student tuition fees could triple to £10,000 under Government plans to slash direct state funding for universities, it emerged today.


    Ministers are said to be considering savage cuts to university teaching grants of up to two-thirds, with funding for arts and humanities degrees being removed altogether.

    Under plans expected to be set out next month, universities could be given more power to levy higher fees to make up the shortfall.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-to-10000.html
    I bet students will go mad at this :rolleyes:

    tbqh

    so long as i can borrow all the money at the current rate, and the means tested grants system remains the same, it doesnt bother me really

    i live for today
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    (Original post by soutioirsim)
    I mean whats the difference between £20,000 or £30,000 debt anyway? :p:
    10 Grand. Several years worth of salary being reduced to repay loan with ever increasing interest.

    Less cash over a longer period of time to get on the property ladder, potentially a worse credit rating, less cash to support a family, plus many other unpleasant things which I cba to list.
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    Heh, that is what I am paying right now, so I feel the pain. Believe me, making career choices based specifically on your future ability to repay loans is a nightmare... I want to do languages but can only justify attending a UK uni if I pursue Genetic Counselling.
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    (Original post by invictus_veritas)
    It should happen or foreign students should be banned: it's really unfair that the best British students can't compete fairly for places with foreign students. This allows for that to happen so is a much fairer system. If your degree isn't worth the cost of you doing it then you shouldn't be doing it in the first place.
    Foreign students(non-EU ones) pay the full cost of their education and are one of the sources of revenue for universities. Cut them out and you will see universities struggling even more. As for EU students, good luck with convincing Brussels about it.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    Foreign students(non-EU ones) pay the full cost of their education and are one of the sources of revenue for universities. Cut them out and you will see universities struggling even more. As for EU students, good luck with convincing Brussels about it.
    Yes but you didn't read what i said: either British students should pay
    £10 000 or foreign students should be banned i.e. universities get most of their money from foreign students, but British students are unable to compete fairly because the universities need the cash. Therefore a rise to £10 000 would make competition a lot fairer for British students as they would effectively pay the same, or almost the same as foreign students.

    I am actually in favour of a rise, not banning foreign students as I think more competition is better, but fair competition is also better and the cap just causes competition distortions which disadvantage home students.

    you should have rad what I actually posted...
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    (Original post by Johnny Luk)
    Idiot...international students shouldn't be banned, they are the main source of income for most Universities...
    Yes but you didn't read what i said: either British students should pay
    £10 000 or foreign students should be banned i.e. universities get most of their money from foreign students, but British students are unable to compete fairly because the universities need the cash. Therefore a rise to £10 000 would make competition a lot fairer for British students as they would effectively pay the same, or almost the same as foreign students.

    I am actually in favour of a rise, not banning foreign students as I think more competition is better, but fair competition is also better and the cap just causes competition distortions which disadvantage home students.

    you should have rad what I actually posted...
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    (Original post by milesofsea)
    How will that improve the financial situation
    It wouldn't which is why it doesn't make sense at all. Given this the argument follows:

    You didn't read what i said: either British students should pay
    £10 000 or foreign students should be banned i.e. universities get most of their money from foreign students, but British students are unable to compete fairly because the universities need the cash. Therefore a rise to £10 000 would make competition a lot fairer for British students as they would effectively pay the same, or almost the same as foreign students.

    I am actually in favour of a rise, not banning foreign students as I think more competition is better, but fair competition is also better and the cap just causes competition distortions which disadvantage home students.

    you should have rad what I actually posted...
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    (Original post by morecambebay)
    it wont happen.
    Do you live in Morecambe? :gah:
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    (Original post by Phantom_X)
    Your in line with me in terms of university funding mainly. Fees should rise to cover the costs, after all, we are both choosing to go into education with the idea of getting good jobs, and that cant be supplied by the government. However, what you are continunally failing to understand is that the government isnt going to borrow an extra £7,000 per student to cover their tuition costs with the price increase. Somewhere along the line, the students will have to make the shortfall, and tbh, not everyone has an exta £7,000 per year (ie.21,000) hiding under their beds to pay for their childs education- in particular poor and middle class families.
    Well surely the £7k shortfall is equivalent to government subsidies. I don't see how students would need to make that up, loans could increase, the net effect on government being they swap giving away £7k a year to subsidise tuition with loaning it (and getting most back in the future)..
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    It's stupid. What about people from lower income families? Not everyone's rich and able to afford £7000 a year fees! What's wrong with just getting rid of mickey mouse degrees that lead nowhere?
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    Wtf man?
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    Foreign students(non-EU ones) pay the full cost of their education and are one of the sources of revenue for universities. Cut them out and you will see universities struggling even more. As for EU students, good luck with convincing Brussels about it.
    As I understand it this is incorrect, non-EU students pay as much for their courses as EU students + HEFCE (UK gov).
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    (Original post by invictus_veritas)
    It wouldn't which is why it doesn't make sense at all. Given this the argument follows:

    You didn't read what i said: either British students should pay
    £10 000 or foreign students should be banned i.e. universities get most of their money from foreign students, but British students are unable to compete fairly because the universities need the cash. Therefore a rise to £10 000 would make competition a lot fairer for British students as they would effectively pay the same, or almost the same as foreign students.

    I am actually in favour of a rise, not banning foreign students as I think more competition is better, but fair competition is also better and the cap just causes competition distortions which disadvantage home students.

    you should have rad what I actually posted...
    This is a non issue, universities do not make more from non-EU than EU. Yes non-EU pay more than EU students, but the difference isn't picked up by the university, it is covered by government bursary.
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    I completely agree with the 'Classics/Media' comment by the way.

    To me, English Literature, whilst respected as a degree, is just a book/archaic version of Media Studies. In Media you study moving image, such as Film, TV, Radio etc etc, and analyse the texts. In literature you do the same, but to literary works. Neither lead directly into a certain job, but are more for ones interest in the subject and wanting to study it.

    My Auntie for example did a degree in English Literature, and ended up working for Norwich Union in a very high-paid job.
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    I think my head is actually on the verge of exploding after reading this...

    seriously, raising fees is ****** UP as it is, but what the ****? cutting all funding for arts and humanities? what, as if careers in those fields werent elitist enough for the buggers?
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    (Original post by DougieG)
    Thanks. I only wish that the conservatives would address it. If you're going to screw over an entire generation by creating vast amounts of debt among them to pay for your own generation's greed.

    What this lot also forget is that a degree isn't simply to the benefit of the person taking it. We need a wide range of academic degrees in order to be competitive in the world market and discouraging bright people form going to uni with huge amounts of debt is not a good idea.

    This could quite easily be paid for by restructuring the system. It's never going to be popular on TSR, but a lot of these ex-polys and the like have literally no benefit to the economy. People going to them think they're getting a degree but end up in as much debt as if they went to Cambridge and have practically no added salary to show for it. I fail to see how a Media Studies degree from an ex-poly makes people better journalists than if they took an apprenticeship at the local newspaper or radio station. The idea that university is an academic pursuit is an idea that is unfortunately sorely lacking these days. I daresay I'll get negged for this post, but if we're going to ask for free universities we have to be realistic about it and look at what really requires a university education and what doesn't.
    I'm focusing on your second part here. I have to actually agree with you to an extent, people doing Media & Communcation at Glyndwr (though that only became a Uni in 2008) or Thames Valley, are really not going to have a chance at all to get into the Media industry. That being said, there are a number of Ex-polys which are doing very well, despite their previous title, for example Nottingham Trent and Northumbria in particular. I do still think though, that a Film/TV/Media degree is still relevant at academic level from certain institutions such as Warwick/Southamption/York/Reading/Queen Mary do degrees in Film, there is a clear cut off though where you can differentiate between a degree from say English Language at Swansea Metropolitan and Cardiff University. Which is why I think certain institutions should be changed into more vocational establishments, simply to give them better job prospects/qualifications.
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    So it's rich parents or gtfo then?

    I think if they did do this, apprenticeships should be more available.
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    (Original post by FTstudies)
    I'm focusing on your second part here. I have to actually agree with you to an extent, people doing Media & Communcation at Glyndwr (though that only became a Uni in 2008) or Thames Valley, are really not going to have a chance at all to get into the Media industry. That being said, there are a number of Ex-polys which are doing very well, despite their previous title, for example Nottingham Trent and Northumbria in particular. I do still think though, that a Film/TV/Media degree is still relevant at academic level from certain institutions such as Warwick/Southamption/York/Reading/Queen Mary do degrees in Film, there is a clear cut off though where you can differentiate between a degree from say English Language at Swansea Metropolitan and Cardiff University. Which is why I think certain institutions should be changed into more vocational establishments, simply to give them better job prospects/qualifications.
    Exactly. There's no need for the number of universities we have. Calling everything a 'degree' is farcical. Far better to slash university places - cut the bottom 100 or so off, say, and replace them with vocational training, apprenticeships and the like. There's a lot of good professions where a degree is just not necessary. Journalism is one that I mentioned before. Even something like accountancy or engineering can be taught equally as effectively on a paid apprenticeship.
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    (Original post by jk1986)
    Well surely the £7k shortfall is equivalent to government subsidies. I don't see how students would need to make that up, loans could increase, the net effect on government being they swap giving away £7k a year to subsidise tuition with loaning it (and getting most back in the future)..
    which means nothing is really changing, beyond the extra 3 grand that needs to be paid if its 10,000 per course. still induces higher borrowing which the government dosent want to do.
 
 
 
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