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    (Original post by HumanNature1992)
    Why isnt all meat halal...?
    Because imposing the views of a small minority on a very large majority is wrong?
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    Ffs how many times do I have to repeat this - Virtually ALL meat in the UK is stunned before it is slaughtered - yes that includes HALAL meat !

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003....animalwelfare

    So there isn't much difference between halal/non-halal meat in reality.

    Mods - Please make my post a sticky or something :p:
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    (Original post by Sherlock.H)
    This should help you:

    http://www.slideshare.net/arkam_slid...nly-halal-food

    That's interesting, thanks. I spent a minute or two looking at a few other research projects, some of which have come up with rather different conclusions, also based on statistical evidence and the such like. I guess it's just a matter of deciding for oneself which is the most humane way of animal slaughter...
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    Because not everyone jumps to conclusions and decides that it's cruel after doing no scientific research about it at all?
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Because imposing the views of a small minority on a very large majority is wrong?
    Its not really "imposing" when it makes no difference to you. My high school's meat is halal (even though not theres not that many Muslims), so is that of Wembley stadium fyi, and the so called "majority" don't seem to have a problem with it. It just means more sales for those selling the meat.
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    (Original post by The Avenger)
    Ffs how many times do I have to repeat this - Virtually ALL meat in the UK is stunned before it is slaughtered - yes that includes HALAL meat !

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003....animalwelfare

    So there isn't much difference between halal/non-halal meat in reality.

    Mods - Please make my post a sticky or something :p:

    Thanks, That's cleared things up a lot. No doubt you'll be saying a few more times over time - but at least you'll be informing the ignorant (like me!).
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    (Original post by A.S.Cobb)
    Yes, I agree with you in many respcts. I also happen to think that the prohibition of the eating of pork is not a particularly relevant command for today. Many years ago Christians refrained form eating sea animals because it was likewise forbidden in the Bible - now of course hygiene has improved and such rules are, on the whole, ignored.

    I suppose the difference between the Jewish principles with regards to pork, and that of Halal meat, is this: Not eating pork is not painful/cruel or thee pig. In contrast, there does seem to be evidence suggesting that the way in which halal meat is prepared, is painful for the animals which are to be slaughtered.
    What evidence is there to suggest it's more painful than conventional slaughter?
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    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    What evidence is there to suggest it's more painful than conventional slaughter?

    The Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC) has concluded that the methods in which halal and kosher meat is produced causes suffering to animals and should be banned. They've argued that cattle need up to two minutes to bleed to death when the ritual killing is used.
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    (Original post by A.S.Cobb)
    The Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC) has concluded that the methods in which halal and kosher meat is produced causes suffering to animals and should be banned. They've argued that cattle need up to two minutes to bleed to death when the ritual killing is used.
    Source? Most studies have said the pain is minimal and it is much quicker than conventional slaughter.
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    (Original post by Naffy)
    What are you talking about?

    Halal slaughter can included stunning of an animal with electric shock.

    Unless you interpret electric shock as a physical blow, (which is a disallowed method of slaughter in the Quran)

    In fact the tradition method of a clean cut of the jugular, has been used for so long by muslims, because it has unequivocally been the quickest and most painless method for a long time. Since when you cut the jugular, no blood (hence no oxygen) reaches the brain, therefore no pain can be felt, since the brain stops function, instant Brain-dead. It drains the body of blood effectively(which cannot be consumed)

    The core precept of Halal Slaughter, is killing the animal, while uttering 'In the name of God (Allah)'
    I'm getting tired of correcting your mistakes, please don't act like a spokesperson for Islam when you make mistakes such as these.

    Here is an article on the issue:

    Spoiler:
    Show
    ISLAM & MUSLIMS OPPOSE STUNNING!

    Dr A. Majid Katme

    Spokesman on Halal meat and Food


    STUNNING THE ANIMAL BEFORE SLAUGHTER CAUSES MANY HARAMS NOT LEAST OF WHICH IS CRUELTY AND SUFFERING TO THE ANIMAL AS WELL AS PRODUCING UNHEALTHY MEAT TO THE CONSUMERS!

    IN BRIEF:

    1-Some animals DIE from stunning, especially chickens (about 33 % of chicken die from stunning before slaughter - Government figures). It is HARAM to eat any meat from an animal that died before slaughter (Dhabh). No body is checking stunned animals/chickens to see if they are dead or alive before slaughter, so all are SHUBUHA (doubtful) which Muslims should avoid eating. Also even if the animal is alive, what about the other HARAM and cruelty and the health hazards and the undesirable effects occurring as a result of stunning?

    2-consuming BLOOD inside the meat which is HARAM! The animals bleed less because of stunning, especially when the heart stops. There is also: "SALT AND PEPPER HAEMORRHAGE", rupture of the small blood vessels inside the meat, oozing more blood which does not go out at all.

    3-Stunning is PAINFUL and CRUEL to the animal, according to many medical studies done with the recording of the EEG (electric recording of the brain). Islam FORBIDS us to inflict any type of pain or cruelty on any type of animal. Similarly, EEG medical studies have shown that the direct method of slaughter (Dhabh) is PAINLESS to the animal.

    4-Stunning affects the QUALITY OF THE MEAT, by disturbing and disrupting the natural healthy chemicals/formula of the meat; making the meat after UNHEALTHY or harmful to health (NOT TAYYIB).

    5-Handling the animal for stunning, causes a lot of STRESS to the animal, which affects the hormones in the body of the animal and causes medical harms and other undesirable effects. This is cruel to the animal and Islam would like a relaxed, comfortable animal before slaughter.

    6-Failure of stunning leading to repetition of stunning which is more CRUEL and PAINFUL. Also some animals become paralysed and awake after stunning, some develops broken bones, some get bruises and lacerations...this is CRUEL and PAINFUL! Islam opposes all types of TORTURE to the animals.

    7-There are today in the West many non Muslim scientists who OPPOSE STUNNING for humane and welfare reasons like: Van der wal, Wernberg, Mcloughlin, Pollard, Winstanley, Marple etc... Also the Jews oppose all types of stunning.

    8-Some stunning techniques cause STRANGULATION/SUFFOCATION to the animal, as in the electric water bath used for stunning the chickens. Strangulating/suffocating the animal is prohibited in the Qur'an. Other animals are stunning by a violent blow on the head; this is prohibited too in the Qur'an.

    9-Risk of MAD COW DISEASE (BSE) occurring in some stunning, as in the Captive Bolt pistol used on the cows. The brain is damaged and there is a risk of contamination with BSE, and the consumer could develop a similar disease which will kill him/her. The European Union has decided recently to BAN stunning by the Captive Bolt pistol because of this serious health hazard. PITHING, another type of stunning, was prohibited before for the same reason.

    10-New medical research and studies have proved the amazing tranquilliser and healing effects on the animal when it hears BISMILLAH ALLAH AKBAR, when it is alive, fully conscious and able to hear! In stunning, the animal is unconscious or dead and unable to hear BISMILLAH ALLAH AKBAR.

    11-ALLAH is the MOST COMPASSIONATE, the MOST MERCIFUL. Muhammad (peace be upon him)is the MERCY to all the worlds (men and animals), all prophets of ALLAH like: Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them) have done DHABH by the direct method and without any type of stunning...surely all were NOT CRUEL to the animals! Besides that, Teacher Muhammad has told us and shown us how to slaughter our animals as the best humane method and best for quality of meat.

    12-Surely stunning is a NEW BID'A/invention and is contradictory to the Prophet Muhammad's way the PERFECT way!

    13-The final prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has ordered us in a Hadith to FIGHT all those who do not slaughter their animals as done by the prophets.

    14-The OFFICIAL MUSLIM VIEW to the Government in the UK, by the major Muslim organisations like:

    The Muslim Council of Britain, Union of Muslim organisations, Sharia Council, Regent Park Mosque etc is that ANY TYPE OF STUNNING CANNOT BE ACCEPTED BY THE BRITISH MUSLIMS.

    15-The European Council for IFTA and RESEARCH, has prohibited stunning in 1999 (about 50 European Ulama and Muftis in Europe).

    16-MORE: The British Government has allowed the Muslims (& Jews) to slaughter their animals according to their religions (exemption from stunning) and without any type of stunning. So it is LEGAL and according to the law of the land to have our Real Halal meat from DHABH without stunning...

    THE ISLAMIC AND HEALTH & WELFARE EVIDENCES ARE INCREASING DAY AFTER DAY TO OPPOSE ANY TYPE OF STUNNING...

    So any Muslim practicing stunning is disobeying the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and NOT following the Fatawas of Ulama, and is feeding our Muslims and the innocent children non Halal meat and is CHEATING the Muslims by saying it is HALAL MEAT.

    He is also GIVING us 2 HARAMS at least: eating from dead animal and feeding us the Haram blood! And he is giving us unhealthy meat with many risks to our health (BSE, Blood etc...)

    He is also inflicting pain and cruelty on the stunned animals and he will have to answer before ALLAH, when he will be asked about this unnecessary cruelty.

    He is also breaking the official Muslim view (consensus) to the Government.

    A NATIONAL CAMPAIGN FOR EDUCATION IS NEEDED IN ALL LANGUAGES and our ULAMA/IMAMS should be the most aware.
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    [QUOTE=In2deep]I'm getting tired of correcting your mistakes, please don't act like a spokesperson for Islam when you make mistakes such as these.

    I see, but someone earlier (The Avenger) posted this:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003....animalwelfare
    which seems to suggest that there is disagreement between members of Islam about the use of stunning- and indeed that it is widely used regardless (at least in Western countries) of what may be interpreted as strictly correct.

    (sorry, wasn't trying to get in the way, just thought it might be interesting to you - I certainly thought it was)
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    Sorry to be so blunt, but it is JUST MEAT NOW. You cannot change how it was slaughtered, and if you wish to take the 'higher moral ground on killing animals', research how, buy the equipment and livestock, and slaughter it yourself.
    Yes, it had a life before it was slaughtered (to a varying degree of happiness), and yes it suffered pain as it died, however minimal. Now it is dead, and on your plate.

    Get over it already.

    As a side note, I am glad that halal meat is still around - personally I like bloodless meat, unless it is steak, and would rather buy halal chicken etc than tesco, which often still has congealed blood in the vessels.
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    [QUOTE=ookathephouka]Sorry to be so blunt, but it is JUST MEAT NOW. You cannot change how it was slaughtered, and if you wish to take the 'higher moral ground on killing animals', research how, buy the equipment and livestock, and slaughter it yourself.
    Yes, it had a life before it was slaughtered (to a varying degree of happiness), and yes it suffered pain as it died, however minimal. Now it is dead, and on your plate.

    Very true, but it is possible to change the way in which animals WILL be slaughtered...
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    [QUOTE=A.S.Cobb]
    (Original post by ookathephouka)
    Sorry to be so blunt, but it is JUST MEAT NOW. You cannot change how it was slaughtered, and if you wish to take the 'higher moral ground on killing animals', research how, buy the equipment and livestock, and slaughter it yourself.
    Yes, it had a life before it was slaughtered (to a varying degree of happiness), and yes it suffered pain as it died, however minimal. Now it is dead, and on your plate.

    Very true, but it is possible to change the way in which animals WILL be slaughtered...
    You have a quoting problem, but I agree with your statement there. However "habits is habits" and it is VERY hard to change the way things have been done for centuries, even if the law does change. They would have to fund the stun guns etc for the 'new' way of doing things, and would also have to fight against the communities that eat halal as a way of life - now that would cause uproar.

    The only reason all these threads have appeared recently is that uproar about halal being served all over the country to unknowing people. I bet half the people posting in them have never heard of halal before or even researched animal slaughter.
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    Because it tastes amazing
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    (Original post by HumanNature1992)
    Its not really "imposing" when it makes no difference to you. My high school's meat is halal (even though not theres not that many Muslims), so is that of Wembley stadium fyi, and the so called "majority" don't seem to have a problem with it. It just means more sales for those selling the meat.
    Newspapers only print stories that they know will sell and attract their target udience. If no one at all cared then newspapers would not carry the story. So a lot of people must care.

    I dont so much. Just seems stupid using a pratice that only a minority in the country really care about. Why should we change anything for a religoin? Why is religoin put on a pedastal when really it should not be treated in any special way.
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    Lame muslim laws that the government want to put in place cause apparantly there's only Christians and Muslims that exist and no other religion. Oh and Jewish. And if they don't then they may get labelled racist and be blown up. Haha
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    (Original post by theths)
    problem solved OP (:
    i can think of so many pettier religious rules tbh
    like pork - why is eating pork still not allowed despite much better hygiene standards? is there a spiritual reason behind it? (genuine question)
    we are not allowed to eat pork because God told us not to. We've added our own reasons (it's unclean, hard to digest, etc.) but the fact of the matter is we were told by God to do something and we do it.

    However, hygiene standards have nothing to do with the pig's way of life. The way it lives is the reason it is referred to as 'dirty'.
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    let's not even bring in about religious laws and the manner of slaughtering, it's just a matter of supply and demand.

    the shops/restaurants decide to sell it, now if you have a problem go talk to the owners. The no. of muslims in the UK are increasing rapidly, so it makes sense to supply halal meat when there is a large need for it.
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    (Original post by The_0001)
    cos thers bare demand for it innit
    sweaaaaaar downnn to the groooouuunnnd
 
 
 
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