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Professor fined £155 for disembarking one train stop early watch

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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...top-early.html
    A professor who got off his train one stop before the destination on his ticket was ordered to pay a £155 penalty to leave the station.
    Martyn Evans was told he would be fined for disembarking at Darlington, near his home, rather than waiting until Durham, where he works at the university’s philosophy department.
    The state-run East Coast train company said ticketing regulations meant he could get off only at the stop he had paid for – and nowhere else.


    But transport campaigners warned the restriction risked driving passengers off trains and back into their cars.
    Professor Evans said: ‘Anyone would understand that you’d be liable to pay extra if you stayed on the train too long.

    'But by getting off early, you aren’t even using all of the product that you’ve paid for.’
    The father of two bought three advance first-class single tickets from East Coast to cover his triangular journey from Durham to London, London to Birmingham and then back to Durham.

    It was nearly 8pm when he arrived back in the North-East, so he decided to disembark one stop early, at Darlington, close to his home in the village of Hurworth.
    However, when he tried to leave the station, the automatic barrier would not let him out. Station staff told him his ticket was invalid because he had got off the train too early.
    He was ordered to pay £155 – the price of a full first-class ticket from Birmingham to Darlington. After complaining, he was allowed to sign an invoice and told he must pay the penalty later.
    Professor Evans said: ‘Like most people, it did not enter my mind that I was in default of the terms and conditions by getting off the train early.
    ‘The whole process made me feel like a wrongdoer from the beginning and that disgusted me more than just the money itself.

    'It’s absolute madness – no-one would anticipate you’d be at fault for getting off too early.’
    Ridiculous. Petty. Jobsworths.
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    Are there any terms and conditions on these advance tickets when you buy them? If it was made clear that you have to complete the journey in its entirety then he is the one at fault.
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    Hmm, while a fine is heavy handed - even I know that at most stations you need a ticket that says the name of the station on it. Feigning stupidity would have been an idea - he is a professor?
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    I don't care what it said on the terms and conditions, they aren't justified by any sane reasoning. And it wasn't made that clear if it was a part of the small print.
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    (Original post by Liquidus Zeromus)
    I don't care what it said on the terms and conditions, they aren't justified by any sane reasoning. And it wasn't made that clear if it was a part of the small print.
    If you use trains at all you know most stations have ticket barriers.
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    (Original post by Dnator)
    If you use trains at all you know most stations have ticket barriers.
    All of the ticket barriers I've encountered were manned by humans. If they have some sort of automated mechanism which detects "wrong" tickets then surely you can just explain it to the guard :rolleyes:
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    Jesus christ... People run from buying cars to avoid rip-off car insurance companies, to be stabbed by T&S of public transport. What a joke.
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    Jesus, where does the retardedness come from?.....

    if i pay to watch a movie at the cinema then proceed to watch another movie after without paying then that is obviously wrong - I think everyone can agree with that.

    if i pay to watch a movie at the cinema then walk out halfway through because its crap, i'm not going to be stopped by the cinema staff and forced to pay a penalty for leaving early am I ???

    I think the UK has an unusually high percentage of jobsworths compared to other countries.
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    He is wrong. The train ticket is not determined by length of travel but by the station. Don't see it as getting off early or 'not using the full product', instead he got off at the stop he he didn't pay for. He in no way paid for a 'product' allowing him to get of at Darlington. A economics professor wouldn't be spouting that kind of non sense, no wonder he does philosophy.
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    (Original post by Liquidus Zeromus)
    All of the ticket barriers I've encountered were manned by humans. If they have some sort of automated mechanism which detects "wrong" tickets then surely you can just explain it to the guard :rolleyes:
    Yes, but unfortunately I find rail staff to be the most uncompromising and unsympathetic ***** who love having their ten seconds of power. Case in point - you have the receipt for your ticket and every other ticket (like the reservation) but you can't find your actual ticket. It is pretty obvious that you did buy the ticket, but mr conductor charges you 150 pounds for a new one (my gf's cousin on a train from edinburgh), won't even give rail card discount. You forget your railcard and they make you pay the whole most expensive fare rather than the difference (mate with me). I mean yes - they are technically following the rules but common sense and empathy go a long way. So, in this knowledge, I would never alight one stop early to a station that I know has ticket barriers.
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    (Original post by yoyo462001)
    He is wrong. The train ticket is not determined by length of travel but by the station. Don't see it as getting off early or 'not using the full product', instead he got off at the stop he he didn't pay for. He in no way paid for a 'product' allowing him to get of at Darlington. A economics professor wouldn't be spouting that kind of non sense, no wonder he does philosophy.
    :facepalm2: He paid to travel further, it doesn't make sense that he gets fined for getting off earlier. If they are charging higher prices to travel a shorter distance ON THE SAME TRAIN, then that does not make sense at all, and they are the ones who should be fined for unfair trading practices.

    Jeez, I study Economics too but his subject of expertise is completely besides the point.
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    (Original post by Liquidus Zeromus)
    :facepalm2: He paid to travel further, it doesn't make sense that he gets fined for getting off earlier. If they are charging higher prices to travel a shorter distance ON THE SAME TRAIN, then that does not make sense at all, and they are the ones who should be fined for unfair trading practices.

    Jeez, I study Economics too but his subject of expertise is completely besides the point.
    As a firm they are naturally trying to maximise profits, in this case this can be done by charging different prices to different stations since the marginal cost of each passenger is negligible. It makes perfect sense that they don't charge solely on distance, since you may get a station that is frequently used by wealthy individual but is relatively close distance wise. To capitalise on this the train operator must charge high fees to this station but not to stations further ahead.
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    It seems like the validity of the terms and conditions could be challenged to me. Once he's alighted the train the fact that he can't leave the station without paying a fine seems awfully close to false imprisonment.
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    (Original post by yoyo462001)
    He is wrong. The train ticket is not determined by length of travel but by the station. Don't see it as getting off early or 'not using the full product', instead he got off at the stop he he didn't pay for. He in no way paid for a 'product' allowing him to get of at Darlington. A economics professor wouldn't be spouting that kind of non sense, no wonder he does philosophy.
    I understand the premise but if it's true why does it cost more and more the further and further you go?

    If you get a train to London it'll cost say £80, if you carry on to the less busy area of Kent it'll be £90 or whatever. Under your system a ticket to London and London only should be more.
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    (Original post by Dnator)
    If you use trains at all you know most stations have ticket barriers.
    Inexperience is not an argument for fining people.

    If you use planes all the time you know that you have to take your laptop out of your bag in security checks. That doesn't mean we should go around fining people who left their laptops in their bags.
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    Completley ridiculous. I've actually done this before and had no problems, have even done it with East Coast.

    Sounds like the guy on the barrier had absolutley no idea what he was doing and displayed no discretion or common sense at all. Typical clueless jobsworth giving it the "the ticket barrier won't let him through, invalid ticket, standard fare (i.e. a fine) shall be issued" doing it by the book nonsense.

    There are issues with people getting off trains early particularly when travelling into major cities to avoid higher costing train tickets, but getting off at Darlo instead of Durham is a tad extreme.
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    (Original post by Liquidus Zeromus)
    :facepalm2: He paid to travel further, it doesn't make sense that he gets fined for getting off earlier. If they are charging higher prices to travel a shorter distance ON THE SAME TRAIN, then that does not make sense at all, and they are the ones who should be fined for unfair trading practices.

    Jeez, I study Economics too but his subject of expertise is completely besides the point.
    The system that works out train fares is complex and full of oddities. It's sometimes cheaper to travel further with advance tickets because it's worked out to do with loadings, demand, availability and quotas rather than distance. You can't just go around getting off wherever you want on an advance ticket, if he had an off-peak return I might, maybe, be able to see his point but he didn't, there are strict terms and conditions attached to the tickets which will have been in the email he received or on a blue sheet stapled to the tickets when he bought them. You must travel on the service indicated between the stations indicated. He didn't. He broke the rules, he lost out.

    He did not pay to go to Darlington, he paid to go to Durham. The fact he went to Darlington means he was liable for a fine because that's not what he paid for. How is that hard to understand?

    (Original post by Dnator)
    Yes, but unfortunately I find rail staff to be the most uncompromising and unsympathetic ***** who love having their ten seconds of power. Case in point - you have the receipt for your ticket and every other ticket (like the reservation) but you can't find your actual ticket. It is pretty obvious that you did buy the ticket, but mr conductor charges you 150 pounds for a new one (my gf's cousin on a train from edinburgh), won't even give rail card discount. You forget your railcard and they make you pay the whole most expensive fare rather than the difference (mate with me). I mean yes - they are technically following the rules but common sense and empathy go a long way. So, in this knowledge, I would never alight one stop early to a station that I know has ticket barriers.
    You mean to say when you don't travel with a valid ticket they give you hassle? The turds, how dare they, you should just be able to swan around on the trains however you like. I personally believe that as long as you are on the train that's proof enough that you had, at some point, purchased a ticket that you're now travelling on.

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    (Original post by Liquidus Zeromus)
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...top-early.html
    Read about it on the regional ceefax pages.

    Was thinking about doing something similar myself back in June (coming back from London I wanted to get off at Durham, where I live, instead of the station I'd paid for and closer to my parents, Newcastle).

    I decided that, even though Durham is one stop earlier so it possibly won't matter. It's still techincally not the station I paid for and the barriers would catch me.

    But I spoke to a number of a people who regularly use rail travel, so are fairly well informed, and weren't sure whether it was allowed or not.

    (Original post by Dnator)
    If you use trains at all you know most stations have ticket barriers.
    In the region's East Coast stations (Alnmouth, Newcastle, Chester-le-Street, Durham and Darilington), there weren't ticket barriers until very recently. Newcaste, as well as being one of our most attractive stations, was particuarly pleasent as it was really open. As well no barriers there weren't staff checking tickets. That's changed :sad:

    It was only fairly recently that barriers were installed in all of the stations (I don't think they had any in Darlo anyway).

    So it could be that he's not an experienced traveller or, if he is, that he hasn't travelled since last year and wasn't aware of the change.

    (Original post by yoyo462001)
    . A economics professor wouldn't be spouting that kind of non sense, no wonder he does philosophy.
    He's based in the medical school just as much (if not more) than philosophy, actually.

    http://www.dur.ac.uk/school.health/s...=staff&id=2609

    As a philosophy student for six years I hadn't heard of him until yesterday. Besides, I know many philosophy academics who could could an economist a run for their money...

    (Original post by datr)
    It seems like the validity of the terms and conditions could be challenged to me. Once he's alighted the train the fact that he can't leave the station without paying a fine seems awfully close to false imprisonment.
    He did leave the station without paying. He just needed to sign some guarantee type thing. But I think the fine has been waived after he made a complaint.

    (Original post by GeorgEGNT)
    Completley ridiculous. I've actually done this before and had no problems, have even done it with East Coast.
    Before the ticket barriers came in?

    (Original post by Norfolkadam)
    The system that works out train fares is complex and full of oddities. It's sometimes cheaper to travel further with advance tickets because it's worked out to do with loadings, demand, availability and quotas rather than distance. You can't just go around getting off wherever you want on an advance ticket, if he had an off-peak return I might, maybe, be able to see his point but he didn't, there are strict terms and conditions attached to the tickets which will have been in the email he received or on a blue sheet stapled to the tickets when he bought them
    Yes, he did techincally break the terms and conditions but it does highight that he rules need to made less complex.

    Some people, especially the most vulnerable in society (those with cetain significant learning disabilities, for example) do find purchasing tickets and travelling on trains a very confusing process.

    Personally I think the companies have a duty to make things a lot more simplistic and transparent. Otherwise they could end up being faced with a legal challenge (whether that challenge will suceeded or not is another matter).

    Heck, I'm quite an intelligent person but even I've managed to get myself briefly confused with all the different ticket types and rules. Time and time again this is highlighted by passenger groups and watchdogs but nothing is done.

    Purely because the companies want to catch people out.
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    Horribly stingy.
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    He bought an Advance ticket. These are sold by train companies to make up the numbers on just a single underbooked train, with the expressly stated condition that you can only travel starting and ending where the ticket says you can. An Advance ticket is not a normal ticket - they are sold at a huge discount but the conditions of their use are very strict. If he wanted flexibility, he should have bought a standard peak/off-peak ticket, but I bet he saw some juicy savings to be had with some advance first class tickets and bought them instead, not bothering to check the terms and conditions. :facepalm2:

    Bloke broke the conditions of an Advance ticket, he got fined. Nothing wrong here.
 
 
 
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