I don't care what it said on the terms and conditions, they aren't justified by any sane reasoning. And it wasn't made that clear if it was a part of the small print.
Ignorance is not a defence in English law. He breached the contract , the penalty for breaching the contract is to buy an 'Anytime' ticket for that leg of the journey in the class of on train accommodation you are travelling.
advance tickets are cheap for a reason - yield and capacity management by the TOCs , Anytime or flexible off peak tickets are more expensive but allow breaks of journey , stopping short etc. you pay the extra for this flexibility.
He breached the contract , the penalty for breaching the contract is to buy an 'Anytime' ticket for that leg of the journey in the class of on train accommodation you are travelling.
I believe the fine was actually twice the cost of the anytime ticket. In any case it's far more than the cost to the TOC of him leaving the train early! Anyway, it wouldn't be so bad if it cut both ways, but train companies tend to have their cake and eat it. I've been packed in like cattle on a train before (Bristol to Lancaster sat on the floor of the buffet carriage, two days in Lancaster before sitting on my bag in a luggage compartment from Lancaster to Carlisle springs to mind), left with no option but to call my dad to pick me up when they've failed to get me even to the right country before the last train, let alone the right station, and very late more times than I care to remember. Compensation to date has been Β£4 in travel vouchers. Yet if I were to leave a train early when travelling on an advance ticket, causing no loss, difficulty or inconvenience to the TOC, they will turn round and fine me heavily. Hardly proportionate, is it? Obviously if I, or anyone else, am not prepared to agree to the unilateral terms imposed by the TOCs I'm free not to use the train - hence why so many people will rely on the car instead (not to mention less cost, more convenience, generally faster.. I'm struggling to see why anyone bothers with trains!)
I believe the fine was actually twice the cost of the anytime ticket. In any case it's far more than the cost to the TOC of him leaving the train early! Anyway, it wouldn't be so bad if it cut both ways, but train companies tend to have their cake and eat it. I've been packed in like cattle on a train before (Bristol to Lancaster sat on the floor of the buffet carriage, two days in Lancaster before sitting on my bag in a luggage compartment from Lancaster to Carlisle springs to mind), left with no option but to call my dad to pick me up when they've failed to get me even to the right country before the last train, let alone the right station, and very late more times than I care to remember. Compensation to date has been Β£4 in travel vouchers. Yet if I were to leave a train early when travelling on an advance ticket, causing no loss, difficulty or inconvenience to the TOC, they will turn round and fine me heavily. Hardly proportionate, is it? Obviously if I, or anyone else, am not prepared to agree to the unilateral terms imposed by the TOCs I'm free not to use the train - hence why so many people will rely on the car instead (not to mention less cost, more convenience, generally faster.. I'm struggling to see why anyone bothers with trains!)
If someone wants to leave a train then they should legally be allowed to leave. Otherwise it's surely "kidnap"? It doesn't matter what the terms and conditions say, if the person wants to be let off of the train then they should be.
I am kind of surprised you haven't picked up the obvious hypocrisy of this man moaning about this. Durham students paid for his train ticket and the University Senate write catalogues of small print that us students are made to put up with. Worse still, he probably wrote some of it, being on the Senate and that...
Nah, I did notice it eventually. It just wasn't mentioned on Monday's Ceefax (where I first read about it) or a couple of newspapers. I assumed his travelling was personal and he'd paid for it himself. Wasn't until a few hours ago I realised the university paid for it.
All you can do is larf.
Although isn't there a difference between the university paying for it and Durham students themselves paying for it?
Nah, I did notice it eventually. It just wasn't mentioned on Monday's Ceefax (where I first read about it) or a couple of newspapers. I assumed his travelling was personal and he'd paid for it himself. Wasn't until a few hours ago I realised the university paid for it.
All you can do is larf.
Although isn't there a difference between the university paying for it and Durham students themselves paying for it?
Well no, we suffer their misbehaviour and incompetence, basically we are the ones subsiding the keep of the academic hierarchy.
Maybe someone should send him a letter to tell him to stop whining. Pathetic man really...
The system that works out train fares is complex and full of oddities. It's sometimes cheaper to travel further with advance tickets because it's worked out to do with loadings, demand, availability and quotas rather than distance. You can't just go around getting off wherever you want on an advance ticket, if he had an off-peak return I might, maybe, be able to see his point but he didn't, there are strict terms and conditions attached to the tickets which will have been in the email he received or on a blue sheet stapled to the tickets when he bought them. You must travel on the service indicated between the stations indicated. He didn't. He broke the rules, he lost out.
its this logic, ladies and gentleman, that gives our public transport its poor reputation.
its this logic, ladies and gentleman, that gives our public transport its poor reputation.
What logic?
You don't read the rules, you break the rules, you get punnished for doing so.
That's the basis of our whole legal system, ignorance is not a defence. I feel sorry for the guy and if I was on the gate I'd probably have let him through but I can understand the logic that ended up with him being lumped with a Β£155.
What you mean to say is it's this attitude that gives public transport a poor reputation which might have some truth in it.
You don't read the rules, you break the rules, you get punnished for doing so.
That's the basis of our whole legal system, ignorance is not a defence. I feel sorry for the guy and if I was on the gate I'd probably have let him through but I can understand the logic that ended up with him being lumped with a Β£155.
What you mean to say is it's this attitude that gives public transport a poor reputation which might have some truth in it.
this is mental. honestly, re-read what you just typed
Fine, he got off at a station he shouldn't have, but that in no way justifies a Β£155 fine. At most he should pay the price of a ticket from Darlington to Durham.
Yes, but unfortunately I find rail staff to be the most uncompromising and unsympathetic ***** who love having their ten seconds of power. Case in point - you have the receipt for your ticket and every other ticket (like the reservation) but you can't find your actual ticket. It is pretty obvious that you did buy the ticket, but mr conductor charges you 150 pounds for a new one (my gf's cousin on a train from edinburgh), won't even give rail card discount. You forget your railcard and they make you pay the whole most expensive fare rather than the difference (mate with me). I mean yes - they are technically following the rules but common sense and empathy go a long way. So, in this knowledge, I would never alight one stop early to a station that I know has ticket barriers.
I've been really lucky with rail staff. I've had them let me travel on a different line to get to a station nearer to my house, I've had them let me off when I had a railcard that was a couple of days out of date, I've had them only charge me the difference when I forgot my railcard, and I've had them not charge me a penalty fare when I was running late for my train and didn't have time to buy a ticket on the platform. I think it just depends whether they're in a good mood...
Case in point - you have the receipt for your ticket and every other ticket (like the reservation) but you can't find your actual ticket. It is pretty obvious that you did buy the ticket, but mr conductor charges you 150 pounds for a new one (my gf's cousin on a train from edinburgh), won't even give rail card discount.
That's because someone could have given their ticket to someone else.
The system that works out train fares is complex and full of oddities. It's sometimes cheaper to travel further with advance tickets because it's worked out to do with loadings, demand, availability and quotas rather than distance. You can't just go around getting off wherever you want on an advance ticket, if he had an off-peak return I might, maybe, be able to see his point but he didn't, there are strict terms and conditions attached to the tickets which will have been in the email he received or on a blue sheet stapled to the tickets when he bought them. You must travel on the service indicated between the stations indicated. He didn't. He broke the rules, he lost out.
He did not pay to go to Darlington, he paid to go to Durham. The fact he went to Darlington means he was liable for a fine because that's not what he paid for. How is that hard to understand?
I think one major issue with things like this, and we see it all across modern society, is that no one is allowed any discretion. If companies are employing people who are good at their job, they should allow these people to make their own judgement based on whats best for the company and the customer. I see your point that some advance tickets to specific stations cost more than from one station to a previous one on the line, as might occur when you're getting say one of those advance 'megatrain' deals, or perhaps a Virgin train or some other services which offers hefty discounts, but the fact is if the guards had any sense, and were allowed to use it, they would see that there really was no problem with this disembarking early on this particular occasion.
I think its a real issue with the way business works today actually. In my work my manager allows me to use my discretion because I am a good employee. Its an attitude that is caused by massive companies with just a set of rules acted out by either mindless drones or fairly educated people who turn into jobsworths as they aren't allowed to use their own minds.I think its such a shame
If you use trains at all you know most stations have ticket barriers.
Manchester Piccadilly doesn't.. And iirc, if you get on at Euston the only barrier is usually one person just stood there.. There are plenty of stations where you don't have to go through ticket barriers .
He is wrong. The train ticket is not determined by length of travel but by the station. Don't see it as getting off early or 'not using the full product', instead he got off at the stop he he didn't pay for. He in no way paid for a 'product' allowing him to get of at Darlington. A economics professor wouldn't be spouting that kind of non sense, no wonder he does philosophy.
You're spouting even more nonsense. What a stupid assumption to make
Manchester Piccadilly doesn't.. And iirc, if you get on at Euston the only barrier is usually one person just stood there.. There are plenty of stations where you don't have to go through ticket barriers .
I really regret saying that, hundreds of people now delight in telling me that x station doesn't have barriers. Yes piccadily doesn't because it is massive, would probably be quite costly to install them without disrupting the station. Still - my point was more if you travel by rail you should know the rules, and lots of stations do have barriers and if I know a station has barriers I would never dream of getting off there unless I had the right ticket, as I know what uncompromising dicks a lot of the staff can be.