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    Dont do planning!! There is no jobs at the end of the course!! Just look at Planning resource.co.uk, there use to be over 200 jobs now your lucky to get 40 and they all require experiance!! I was brain washed into thinking that there was shortage....was there F***!! The course is excellent to study but by no means mimics what the job entails...its all paper pushing nonsense and since planning is DISCRETIONARY, the vast majority of big decisions all comes down to money!! Sorry to be cynical but the people who like to do planning are control freaks, who like the games "civilization", play in there own worlds of master and get pleasure on pushing there dreams and ideas on others who cant be bother to protest - you'll learn that in Community planning!! Were all told to engage with the public but how can we, when a) theres apathy created by the me me culture of Thatcherism b) constant written language that is incomprehendiable to the common man on the street!! No wonder there turned off!! Its only when things are dire that a FEW local people say enough is enough - and you dont need a degree to do that!!!

    Its all well meaning but at the end of the day its all ******** covered in endless regurgitating of useless papers on aims and objectives - these include the standard words of sustainability, we should try "to promote" "develop" etc etc. And when the crucial decisions come along, the councils ignore it!!

    And the pay is crap, you might as well be a bin man!! And dont come to me bleating about you can make a difference - say that to your future wife, when you cant afford to pay for the baby's diepers or food from Sainsbury's!! Town planning comes with an intellectual snobbery but the pay doesnt warrent the grief you'll get from the public and private life!!

    Footnote :crap spelling due to happy condition im in
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    (Original post by kizer sauze)
    Dont do planning!! There is no jobs at the end of the course!! Just look at Planning resource.co.uk, there use to be over 200 jobs now your lucky to get 40 and they all require experiance!! I was brain washed into thinking that there was shortage
    There is a shortage.

    This doesn't mean employers in both the public and private sector don't want expeience. You can still get work experience alongside your degree (especially with degrees like Cardiff's and Newcastle's where you can get a year's work experience - a year which can count towards your assessment of professional competence).

    And the pay is crap, you might as well be a bin man!! And dont come to me bleating about you can make a difference - say that to your future wife, when you cant afford to pay for the baby's diepers or food from Sainsbury's!! Town planning comes with an intellectual snobbery but the pay doesnt warrent the grief you'll get from the public and private life!!

    Footnote :crap spelling due to happy condition im in
    :confused: Are you American? We call 'em nappies here. Except Shakespeare in, erm, was it Taming of the Shrew? "Another bear the ewer, the third a diaper". Diaper just meaning a cloth/loin garment.

    As for everything else you've said, heard it many times before from plenty of others (especially town planner hating architects :p: )
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    obviously this rant is equally true for architecture, if not more so, as you run up even more debt studying architecture and you are even more brainwashed into being taught about being artistic and creative, when really they would be serving you better by making sure you were the don at microstation 3d, rhino, maya and studiomax.

    such is the detachment of our H-E universities that they recently sent out a questionnaire to recently graduated fifth years asking how they were enjoying their work and how had their studies helped them in the workplace....
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    You said it yourself. There used to be 200 jobs but now there are 40. That's just the way it is at the moment. Architects are suffering the same fate. My own profession (QSing) has suffered a cross the board pay reduction of 8% in the last year. The Construction Industry is going through one of its frequent turmoils. But its a lot worse this time. Even the normal overseas safe havens are pretty barren for work these days.

    Don't give up hope though. What you have studied has value. It's just that everybody is struggling right now, from new graduates who can't get a foot on the ladder to seasoned professionals who are losing their jobs left, right, and center. Those of us who do have jobs are clinging on for dear life.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Don't give up hope though. What you have studied has value. It's just that everybody is struggling right now, from new graduates who can't get a foot on the ladder to seasoned professionals who are losing their jobs left, right, and center. Those of us who do have jobs are clinging on for dear life.
    Exactly. Although I do realise we have emerged from a recession and job opportunities are limited this should hopefully be the short term. What I said in my post still largely stands.

    The construction sector, despite being hit at the moment (with local governemnt cuts not helping), is said to be the most resiliant with optimitistic growth expected.

    Thousands of graduates across the sectors are struggling to find work.

    The world will always need town planners and, afre graduating with an accredited degree, you have something of real substance and value.

    Personally I think law graduates are more screwed than town planners in the current climate :p: What the OP says about job prospects can easily be said for most degrees with some exceptions (certain areas of engineering, for example).

    Hopefully the sector will continue to recover.

    But the bureaucracy and modest pay (in the public sector) is another thing entirely.
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    lawyers are never going to be screwed. nor doctors.

    two facts that are not in question - there are more people who are living longer and those people are getting greedier by the minute.

    doctors and lawyers. set for life.
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    (Original post by jrhartley)
    lawyers are never going to be screwed. nor doctors.

    two facts that are not in question - there are more people who are living longer and those people are getting greedier by the minute.

    doctors and lawyers. set for life.
    But law graduates really are two-for-a-penny these days. I doubt that three quarters of them will never practice law.
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    graduates of every discipline are four a penny though
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    planning consultancy is the way forward. Private sector bobuses and all that.
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    Yeah I have seen first hand how a town planner works and it looked stressful. He seemed to spend most of his time playing local politics than actually checking through and commenting on applications.

    As for the pay, I thought it was ok. A junior planner earns around £20k in London after graduating right? That's most than a lot architecture graduates. Public sector pay will always be less than the private, but do you really want a high paying job that pushes you to burn out and leaves no time for a quality life outside of work? If you do, then transfer to architecture immediately!!!

    Another positive is that planners will always be needed especially considering some of the buildings which are being proposed in this country.
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    (Original post by MetroS)
    Yeah I have seen first hand how a town planner works and it looked stressful. He seemed to spend most of his time playing local politics than actually checking through and commenting on applications.

    As for the pay, I thought it was ok. A junior planner earns around £20k in London after graduating right? That's most than a lot architecture graduates. Public sector pay will always be less than the private, but do you really want a high paying job that pushes you to burn out and leaves no time for a quality life outside of work? If you do, then transfer to architecture immediately!!!

    Another positive is that planners will always be needed especially considering some of the buildings which are being proposed in this country.
    Haha that's tre about architecture from what I've heard - sounds stressful! If you succeed in it though I guess the rewards are endless. Planning on the other hand is likely to be a much more secure, steady job. I work at a local authority in a related area, the money's OK but I'm hoping to do another diploma after this masters and get into private sector planning/transport planning/development consultancy. Think that's where the cash is... if there are any career prospects left after this government has had its way with cuts!
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    Absolutely agree, Planning is a baaaad idea.
    The following is true.
    1. The ESRC/CLG are still sponsoring student to do town planning MAs.
    2. Some universities are STILL advertising that there is a shortage of planners.
    3. The internet is littered with articles (from 2006/7) on how Planning departments have a critical shortage of staff.

    Why are the ESRC STILL sponsoring students (£1.8 million budget) to do a Planning MA when there is zero demand for Planners?

    There is no shortage of Planners and will not be for many many years.
    Avoid like the plague - every job advertised is well oversubscribed with candidates with at least 5 years experience. There are stories of pals who have secured jobs in Planning (even graduate level) in the current superdepressed market. These people have either been exceptionally lucky or exceptionally well connected. The rest work in bars/pubs etc.

    Save your money!
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    (Original post by jrhartley)
    obviously this rant is equally true for architecture, if not more so, as you run up even more debt studying architecture and you are even more brainwashed into being taught about being artistic and creative, when really they would be serving you better by making sure you were the don at microstation 3d, rhino, maya and studiomax.

    such is the detachment of our H-E universities that they recently sent out a questionnaire to recently graduated fifth years asking how they were enjoying their work and how had their studies helped them in the workplace....
    JR what advice have you got for us lot heading into the industry then. Were likely to get sacked or work for nothing. our education was painful and useless.

    was this just one of the biggest mistakes I ever made?
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    (Original post by ArchiBoi)
    JR what advice have you got for us lot heading into the industry then. Were likely to get sacked or work for nothing. our education was painful and useless.

    was this just one of the biggest mistakes I ever made?
    I don't know what to suggest. I know that there's no way I could do this job had I not been fortunate to have had a high paying career beforehand. There are qualified architects in my office aged in their mid 40s who shop around to save £10 on a tyre, can't afford to run a car, literally, it is hand to mouth existance on the cost front after working for 20 years. I find that actually really wrong - these guys are intelligent, they know a lot of stuff, they are articulate, they can design, yet they are on a salary about equal to what a graduate trainee at UBS would start on.

    Money isn't everything but there comes a point when your existence from a profession is so meagre that it impinges on how much you enjoy your profession.

    What I never really thought through when I started was how much grafting I would have to do after Part 3. I thought '7 years, Part 3, then set up my own practise'. Now I realise its going to be more like 15 years minimum before I've accrued enough experience / got enough credibility to do that. Obviously my naivity got me into this situation and I have to deal with the hand I've dealt myself, but I know many of my younger colleagues who finished in June 2010 who still don't have work and the longer that goes on, the less employable they will be.

    I think the thing is to network fairly ruthlessly with people you used to work for. Say you'll work by the day, the week, the month, whatever it takes to get your foot in the door at a practice. I think firms are valuing flexibility more than anything at the mo - lots of my colleagues are working on short contracts - they are being paid OK, but the issue is they don't know what's happening beyond three months time. Its unsettling, but you've just got to put it to the back of your mind and prove your worth. Ultimately, its a nasty thing to say, but when you're in, you need to show that you're a better person to have around than maybe one of their existing permanent members of staff.
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    (Original post by jrhartley)
    I don't know what to suggest. I know that there's no way I could do this job had I not been fortunate to have had a high paying career beforehand. There are qualified architects in my office aged in their mid 40s who shop around to save £10 on a tyre, can't afford to run a car, literally, it is hand to mouth existance on the cost front after working for 20 years. I find that actually really wrong - these guys are intelligent, they know a lot of stuff, they are articulate, they can design, yet they are on a salary about equal to what a graduate trainee at UBS would start on.

    Money isn't everything but there comes a point when your existence from a profession is so meagre that it impinges on how much you enjoy your profession.

    What I never really thought through when I started was how much grafting I would have to do after Part 3. I thought '7 years, Part 3, then set up my own practise'. Now I realise its going to be more like 15 years minimum before I've accrued enough experience / got enough credibility to do that. Obviously my naivity got me into this situation and I have to deal with the hand I've dealt myself, but I know many of my younger colleagues who finished in June 2010 who still don't have work and the longer that goes on, the less employable they will be.

    I think the thing is to network fairly ruthlessly with people you used to work for. Say you'll work by the day, the week, the month, whatever it takes to get your foot in the door at a practice. I think firms are valuing flexibility more than anything at the mo - lots of my colleagues are working on short contracts - they are being paid OK, but the issue is they don't know what's happening beyond three months time. Its unsettling, but you've just got to put it to the back of your mind and prove your worth. Ultimately, its a nasty thing to say, but when you're in, you need to show that you're a better person to have around than maybe one of their existing permanent members of staff.
    The biggest architects come from money or are very close to it. Do you not have a load of highly paid former colleagues you could convince need something built by you?
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    (Original post by KeyserNI)
    The biggest architects come from money or are very close to it. Do you not have a load of highly paid former colleagues you could convince need something built by you?
    Not really - most bankers like period stuff in West London.....

    And, having been dealing with the stupidity of planners over the past couple of months and seeing how arbitrarily and inconsistently they apply policy, I'm no longer convinced I would want to be running my own show!
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    (Original post by jrhartley)
    Not really - most bankers like period stuff in West London.....

    And, having been dealing with the stupidity of planners over the past couple of months and seeing how arbitrarily and inconsistently they apply policy, I'm no longer convinced I would want to be running my own show!
    Yea during my placement I was working in a small practice that specialised in big one off houses, lots of money involved. Most people it seems just want a big **** off castle that looks like it was built a hundred years ago out in the country somewhere. The guy made a fair bit of money though and the practice is almost as busy as ever hence me getting a job. Worst offender was a single guy of about 40 who wanted this huge 8 bedroom mansion, every bedroom en-suite, required a plant room etc. He was gonna need a staff of 3 minimum just to keep the place running. Kept me in a job and since I got to design the bathrooms myself it was quite satisfying.
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    Is there not an architecture thread to discuss this on? This is planning!
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    (Original post by EssexDan86)
    Is there not an architecture thread to discuss this on? This is planning!
    You're absolutely right.

    Getting back to the original point. Yes I agree town planning is a waste of time.

    lol
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    On the contrary! With the coming changes to the the planning system and all this localism business, it's an interesting time to be a planner. Obviously there's next to no jobs at the moment. Most councils are seeing how many planners they can get away with offloading. And private sector opportunities are always limited even at the best of times. Recruiting won't pick up until the government's planned cuts are over in 2015/2016 at the earliest and most likely even later. And that goes for all local authority professions, except teaching and social work.
 
 
 
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