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Is it time for an Abortion Pride Movement? watch

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    (Original post by Idiot-Finder)
    Some people do not like adoption just like you do not like abortion.
    I find it hard to believe there are people who prefer to murder a child than give it up for adoption. That's pretty sickening.

    Just to make it clear, I think abortion can be justified in a few, rare cases - where carrying the child to full term presents a serious risk to the life of the mother, for example.
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    Paedophile pride movement
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    I'm not sure "pride" would be the right term, but certainly there is place in this world of movements, activism and free speech for those who are pro-abortion to make their voices heard. I think the t-shirt is brilliant and if someone feels comfortable wearing it, they should feel free to.

    It is sad that "pride" movements are necessary but when there is still misconception, prejudice and discrimination towards entire groups of people, standing up and standing firm for what you believe is a vital part of liberation and freedom.
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    (Original post by Lifesharker)
    I find it hard to believe there are people who prefer to murder a child than give it up for adoption. That's pretty sickening.

    Just to make it clear, I think abortion can be justified in a few, rare cases - where carrying the child to full term presents a serious risk to the life of the mother, for example.
    Abortion is not classed as murder and so your whole argument falls apart.
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    (Original post by Schmokie Dragon)
    I'm not sure "pride" would be the right term, but certainly there is place in this world of movements, activism and free speech for those who are pro-abortion to make their voices heard. I think the t-shirt is brilliant and if someone feels comfortable wearing it, they should feel free to.

    It is sad that "pride" movements are necessary but when there is still misconception, prejudice and discrimination towards entire groups of people, standing up and standing firm for what you believe is a vital part of liberation and freedom.
    But people have a right to be against abortion. Stuff like women not voting had no logical basis behind it where as atleast some anti abortion opinions have pretty logical arguments.

    I am pro-abortion but I would feel sick if I saw anyone wearing that t-shirt and would think they are a right ****.
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    Whilst bad ideas are being put out, lets have a Rape Pride movement and " I like to touch Kids " Pride Movement.

    Abortion is nothing to be proud of. Most of the time people have one because they ****** up and were to stupid to use contraception. Don't take pride in your mistakes, that is just retarded.
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    The shirt might as well say, "I am proud of committing murder." I have no objection against abortion because there are situations when a woman would need to abort for various reasons. But the pregnancy could well have been avoided in certain cases. It only happens here due to ignorance

    But to be proud of abortion? The shirt might as well say on the back, "I got pregnant in the first place because I was ignorant."
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    (Original post by Idiot-Finder)
    Abortion is not classed as murder and so your whole argument falls apart.
    Legally =/= morally. It's a difficult one to call, fair enough, and a lot of people call it on when it becomes able to survive outside the womb (which I think is where the legal limit on abortion comes from?) If you're defining life by people who are able to survive without outside assistance, than people who are on life support machines, dialysis etc are not alive. From a scientific standpoint though, even the single cell after the egg has been fertilised fulfils the criteria for life - it is alive, scientifically speaking.

    The only thing, then, is at what point you consider it to be human, and defining that is a very slippery slope. If you start defining it by certain higher brain functions and the like, then there are many animals (pigs, dolphins) which are more capable in these areas than infant or toddler children, so either you'd end up classifying pigs and dolphins as legally human, or it's alright for people to go around shooting two year olds.

    (Original post by Idiot-Finder)
    But people have a right to be against abortion. Stuff like women not voting had no logical basis behind it where as atleast some anti abortion opinions have pretty logical arguments.

    I am pro-abortion but I would feel sick if I saw anyone wearing that t-shirt and would think they are a right ****.
    It's nice to know you're reasonable. And a genuine thank you - I don't agree with you, obviously, but it's great to be able to have a civil debate with someone on TSR, it really is. People like you are too rare.
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    As a male I think I need to get that teeshirt.
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    I agree with the t-shirt but not necessarily a pride parade as I find it pretty distasteful and misleading. It's a woman's choice to do whatever she wants to her body - within reason - and if she can exercise her right to free movement, then that IS something to be proud of. The only people with valid opinions in this whole debate are either pregnant or formerly pregnant women. After that it's anyone with a womb.
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    As someone who is currently in the middle of the nightmare that is supporting my girlfriend through an abortion, I don't think a pride movement is the correct way to go about making people aware of our opinion. I am all for abortion, don't get me wrong. My girlfriend is 8 weeks pregnant and when you're 18 its pretty terrifying and heartbreaking to find out you are going to be a parent. The baby wouldn't grow up in an environment that I would want to grow in, and I couldn't provide it with the life that I had, or even a fraction of it. But to say that we were proud of it would be inaccurate to say the least. Its just a harsh reality, and if we couldn't do this our lives would be ruined.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Hell no. Sorry, but there is no pride to be had in abortion. Sometimes an abortion is necessary and yes I support a womans right to have an abortion, however, even taking that into account, the word pride is certainly misplaced - You have an abortion out of necessity not desire or want of one..
    This - completely.
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    (Original post by Idiot-Finder)
    But people have a right to be against abortion. Stuff like women not voting had no logical basis behind it where as atleast some anti abortion opinions have pretty logical arguments.

    I am pro-abortion but I would feel sick if I saw anyone wearing that t-shirt and would think they are a right ****.
    Of course people have a right to be against abortion. People also have a right to be pro-abortion. If someone is incurably anti-abortion, they don't have the right to restrict what other people say, do and wear.

    The t-shirt isn't about being gross or freaking people out, it's about removing a taboo that is actually killing women and causing thousands of children to be born into homes that don't want them.
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    Abortion isn't part of who you are like sexuality, nationality and religion are-it's a decision you had to make at one moment in time. That's like me wearing a t-shirt saying 'I'm proud not to have eaten a burger on the 9th September' it's a personal decision not a state of being.
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    (Original post by Lifesharker)
    Legally =/= morally. It's a difficult one to call, fair enough, and a lot of people call it on when it becomes able to survive outside the womb (which I think is where the legal limit on abortion comes from?) If you're defining life by people who are able to survive without outside assistance, than people who are on life support machines, dialysis etc are not alive. From a scientific standpoint though, even the single cell after the egg has been fertilised fulfils the criteria for life - it is alive, scientifically speaking.

    The only thing, then, is at what point you consider it to be human, and defining that is a very slippery slope. If you start defining it by certain higher brain functions and the like, then there are many animals (pigs, dolphins) which are more capable in these areas than infant or toddler children, so either you'd end up classifying pigs and dolphins as legally human, or it's alright for people to go around shooting two year olds.



    It's nice to know you're reasonable. And a genuine thank you - I don't agree with you, obviously, but it's great to be able to have a civil debate with someone on TSR, it really is. People like you are too rare.
    My opinion is that while in the mother she has the ultimate right to decide what happens to what is technically at that time part of her body. I believe the 24 weeks should be reduced to 20 however except in such circumstances as rape and endangerment to the mother as medicine is now becomming capable of keeping the occasional baby of that age alive. Basically I think if a fetus is capable of surviving then abortion should not be allowed.

    I understand that some people are morally against it but I dont think because of it that it should be banned for all. I am morally against fox hunting but I believe if thats what some people want to do then they should be allowed to.

    I do agree TSR is too full of the strange, it is amazing what anonymity does to some.
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    (Original post by Schmokie Dragon)
    Of course people have a right to be against abortion. People also have a right to be pro-abortion. If someone is incurably anti-abortion, they don't have the right to restrict what other people say, do and wear.

    The t-shirt isn't about being gross or freaking people out, it's about removing a taboo that is actually killing women and causing thousands of children to be born into homes that don't want them.
    But there should be some taboo around abortion, society shouldnt get to the point where if someone gets pregnant its "oh, better get an appointment for another abortion." Abortion should be a last resort and something which a woman has to think hard about. We shouldnt be promoting it as a type of contraception.
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    I don't think you should have pride in the actual abortion, but definitely have pride in the fact that you made a decision for yourself, you did what was best for you and you haven't let it take over your life. A lot of people who have abortions get a lot of horrible abuse from anti-choice people, so why not stand up and give them a big middle finger? Ultimately it was your choice and you did the best thing for YOU! Not them! I think it's a brilliant idea!
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    (Original post by Idiot-Finder)
    My opinion is that while in the mother she has the ultimate right to decide what happens to what is technically at that time part of her body. I believe the 24 weeks should be reduced to 20 however except in such circumstances as rape and endangerment to the mother as medicine is now becomming capable of keeping the occasional baby of that age alive. Basically I think if a fetus is capable of surviving then abortion should not be allowed.
    I understand where you're coming from here, but I don't see the difference between allowing abortion if the foetus can't survive without the mother and allowing murder if the victim is unable to survive without a dialysis machine, or a pacemaker. Both unable to survive without outside assistance, allowed to kill both, right?

    I understand that some people are morally against it but I dont think because of it that it should be banned for all. I am morally against fox hunting but I believe if thats what some people want to do then they should be allowed to.
    Yeah fair enough, and I'm not talking about outright banning it - I think that's going too far. For example, in Argentina (or so a quick scan of wikipedia tells me), abortion is apparently "illegal with exception for maternal life, health, and/or mental health", and I think they have the right sort of idea in allowing it in certain cases, but not to any random woman who can't be arsed with nine months of inconvenience and arranging to have it adopted when it's born and didn't take any precautions against getting pregnant in the first place.
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    (Original post by Idiot-Finder)
    But there should be some taboo around abortion, society shouldnt get to the point where if someone gets pregnant its "oh, better get an appointment for another abortion." Abortion should be a last resort and something which a woman has to think hard about. We shouldnt be promoting it as a type of contraception.
    I don't think it is a kind of contraception. Of course, some women are too lazy or stupid or whatever and they end up getting abortion after abortion but this really isn't the norm.

    Abortion, at least with current technology, is a pretty awful experience even if you can pychologically remove yourself from the fact you are killing a potential child. It's not something that most intelligent, sane women would enter into lightly. I don't think we do any good by scaring women away from it or putting pressure on them to keep the child or adopt it out. We need to be realistic about the nature of abortions, yes, but also promote safe sex and healthy relationships.

    Abortions mean that fewer children are born into an over-populated, dying world. It means that fewer children are born into poverty, abuse and neglect. It means that fewer children are born that are destined to live life in a wheelchair or life-support machine.

    I do need to clarify that I am not wholy pro-abortion. I think we know enough about foetal development to at least make a cautioned stab at a cut-off point for 'casual' abortions and from what I have read and from the information that doctors have given me, it is quite reasonable to put this at the end of the first trimester. Abortions after that seriously tread a thin line between removing unwanted cells and actually killing something that could feel and potentially think.

    I'm not a complete monster.
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    (Original post by Lifesharker)
    I understand where you're coming from here, but I don't see the difference between allowing abortion if the foetus can't survive without the mother and allowing murder if the victim is unable to survive without a dialysis machine, or a pacemaker. Both unable to survive without outside assistance, allowed to kill both, right?
    The difference in my mind is this, if my brother has kidney faliure and i decide not to give him one of my kidneys even though i am a match (I would if this was really happening) should I be arrested for manslaughter? No as its my body and I have a right to do with whats in my body as I like, he would not survive without something in me which I see totally differently to a machine or pacemaker. If that makes sense.


    Yeah fair enough, and I'm not talking about outright banning it - I think that's going too far. For example, in Argentina (or so a quick scan of wikipedia tells me), abortion is apparently "illegal with exception for maternal life, health, and/or mental health", and I think they have the right sort of idea in allowing it in certain cases, but not to any random woman who can't be arsed with nine months of inconvenience and arranging to have it adopted when it's born and didn't take any precautions against getting pregnant in the first place.
    Condoms can split though, the pill does not work 100% etc.. In my opinion it should be allowed as a one off, however if someone is coming back for a 2nd or 3rd time in my opinion she should have to take a course in contraception etc.. if she is to be allowed to have one.
 
 
 
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