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Using science to prove evolution wrong watch

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    (Original post by Peace0fM1nd)
    well the belief which i choose to follow is more credible than that of evolution. it also gives me more factual evidence to believe in what i believe and dismiss evolution. no evolutionist can provide evidence of the source of energy which first initiated evolution of living organisms, wheras my beleif does. as a scientist i agree that energy in=energy out, energy can only transform from one state to another. so its all fair and well saying that a simple cellular structure became more and more complex as time went by and took different forms etc., it doesnt answer how the energy cam about to form the cell in the first place. im talking on the atomic and molecular scale.
    So, after a very long post with spelling and grammatical mistakes, your answer is...no.

    How surprising.

    What you mean is "Energy in=energy out" doesn't make me question my belief that if I'm good I'll get eternal life, so I'm fine to believe that. Evolution does, so, maybe I'll have to question that a bit more.

    How scientific...:rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Peace0fM1nd)
    well the belief which i choose to follow is more credible than that of evolution. it also gives me more factual evidence to believe in what i believe and dismiss evolution. no evolutionist can provide evidence of the source of energy which first initiated evolution of living organisms, wheras my beleif does. as a scientist i agree that energy in=energy out, energy can only transform from one state to another. so its all fair and well saying that a simple cellular structure became more and more complex as time went by and took different forms etc., it doesnt answer how the energy cam about to form the cell in the first place. im talking on the atomic and molecular scale.
    These arguments are getting more and more silly. First it was 'I don't see how a cell could have formed', then it was "I don't see how organelles could have formed", and now, with those problems addressed and resolved, you've resorted an even more microscopic level of, by asking "I don't see how energy in the universe came to be in the first place". This is a common fallacy, known as moving the goalposts.
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    This will resolve all your questions OP: http://www.biology4kids.com/
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    (Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
    Spoiler:
    Show
    THE SCIENCE OF CLOUDSS!!!!!!!11111111111
    The science of clouds will go well with the science of rocks as a joint honours degree.
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    (Original post by Peace0fM1nd)
    Anyone who wants to know some of the scientific facts of my belief then download this link. otherwise, you clearly have ulterior intentions far from understanding the truth or your just a very awkward person. and im not inviting your or converting anyone, im just giving you an easier way to answer your questions about where my religion is actually a science of truths. hope this helps :cool:


    http://www.islamic-invitation.com/bo...ails.php?bID=1

    It's been pointed out to you several times that proofs only exist in mathematics. Are you willing to capitulate or are you just going to continue spouting the same garbage?
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    (Original post by Alexdurrant7)
    It's been pointed out to you several times that proofs only exist in mathematics.
    Actually, proofs also exist in the science of clouds.
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    (Original post by DarkTitan)
    Gravity IS a theory which we know IS there and how it works, hence it is fact

    ...

    Maybe it may help in debating that I am studying my first year of Biochemistry.
    It must say something about the standard of British education, or perhaps about the standard of your university, that someone who is a science undergraduate could make that statement.
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    To comments about the Quran, i do not want to take this thread into a religious scale but it says itself that , had it not been from God, there would be many contradictions, either gramatical, scientific, i.e any contradiction. Thus, if i found clear scientific contradictions, i would be very worried. Funnily enough, i have not.

    please. DO NOT READ THE ABOVE AND SWING INTO RELIGIOUS DEBATES. Let's keep this ALL scientific. I had to make the point.

    Now, can anyone actually tell me how mitochondria AT ALL would be allowed into a cell WITHOUT the cell bringing up it's 'defences' and removing the thread immediately?
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    (Original post by sixthformer)
    Now, can anyone actually tell me how mitochondria AT ALL would be allowed into a cell WITHOUT the cell bringing up it's 'defences' and removing the thread immediately?
    What is the highest level of science that you have studied? Primary school? GCSE? AS level? A level? Undergraduate?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    What is the highest level of science that you have studied? Primary school? GCSE? AS level? A level? Undergraduate?
    Enough to understand with a simple explanation of how the cell, which imediatley removes pathogens and alien substances from the cell, could suddenly allow a whole organelle in.

    PS: even a partially permeable membrane would not let it in anyway. A mitocondria contains a membrane. It'd be too big. UNLESS - magically - you had a protein allowing it through.

    I want to study medicine (I'll learn more depth to the human body, and cells, and DNA and all of these processes).

    Flaw in argument: attacking the arguer rather than the argument.

    Let's argue ONLY using scientific premise.
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    I've done my own self-study beyond that of the course. Not alot, though.
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    (Original post by sixthformer)
    Enough to understand with a simple explanation of how the cell, which imediatley removes pathogens and alien substances from the cell, could suddenly allow a whole organelle in.

    PS: even a partially permeable membrane would not let it in anyway. A mitocondria contains a membrane. It'd be too big. UNLESS - magically - you had a protein allowing it through.

    I want to study medicine (I'll learn more depth to the human body, and cells, and DNA and all of these processes).

    Flaw in argument: attacking the arguer rather than the argument.

    Let's argue ONLY using scientific premise.
    Consider bacterial cells. You can transfer plasmids (small sections of DNA) into other bacteria giving them characteristics of the other bacteria. E. Coli is a good example, in a simple experiment where you make E.coli immune to ampicillin.

    This shows DNA and RNA is transferable. Meaning the organelle itself may not have transferred, but the DNA to construct it may have.

    Evolution at a cellular level is easily observed. Take HIV, a virus which changes and adapts all the time. Eventually if it continued to adapt and change, it would become something very different from its original form.
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    (Original post by sixthformer)
    Flaw in argument: attacking the arguer rather than the argument.

    Let's argue ONLY using scientific premise.
    I haven't attacked you at all. I merely asked because it will allow posters to make allowances for your level of knowledge. I must say it is worrying that someone who aspires to study medicine cannot understand why evolution is the scientific mainstream opinion.
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    (Original post by sixthformer)
    I want to study medicine
    I pray for your future patients. :moon:
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    (Original post by sixthformer)
    Enough to understand with a simple explanation of how the cell, which imediatley removes pathogens and alien substances from the cell, could suddenly allow a whole organelle in.

    PS: even a partially permeable membrane would not let it in anyway. A mitocondria contains a membrane. It'd be too big. UNLESS - magically - you had a protein allowing it through.

    I want to study medicine (I'll learn more depth to the human body, and cells, and DNA and all of these processes).

    Flaw in argument: attacking the arguer rather than the argument.

    Let's argue ONLY using scientific premise.
    Bear in mind that this theory of mitochondria symbiosis is not a central part of the theory of evolution. The mitochondria would not have been an organelle, but instead some kind of prokaryote. Prokaryote bacteria have membranes, and enter people's cells all of the time, causing infections and such. The mitochondria would only have behaved as an organelle after generations of living within host cells-with acting in symbiosis emerging as the best way of doing so.

    Bear in mind that bacteria can share DNA-if a gene for sharing atp with the host cell was advantageous, it would spread rapidly. Defensive mechanisms would no longer be worth 'spending' materials on, and so the genes for them would be phased out. It would be worthwhile for both the mitochondria and the host cell to become closer, reaching their current state of complete reliance on eachother. The larger, double membrane that you mention would emerge as a positive adaptation of mitochondria after they have already begun to 'cooperate' with host cells.
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    (Original post by sixthformer)
    Enough to understand with a simple explanation of how the cell, which imediatley removes pathogens and alien substances from the cell, could suddenly allow a whole organelle in.
    Viruses manage to implant genetic information into our cell's nuclei, not just reside in the cytoplasm. Aren't you aware of this? Our cells' defence mechanisms fail all the time.

    PS: even a partially permeable membrane would not let it in anyway. A mitocondria contains a membrane. It'd be too big. UNLESS - magically - you had a protein allowing it through.
    Partial phagocytosis, the mitochondria is also surrounded by a double membrane consistent with this idea.

    I want to study medicine (I'll learn more depth to the human body, and cells, and DNA and all of these processes).
    You also learn more about the scientific arguments underpinning evolution, hopefully in an environment where you may be prepared to listen.
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    (Original post by Ramses II)
    Bear in mind that this theory of mitochondria symbiosis is not a central part of the theory of evolution. The mitochondria would not have been an organelle, but instead some kind of prokaryote. Prokaryote bacteria have membranes, and enter people's cells all of the time, causing infections and such. The mitochondria would only have behaved as an organelle after generations of living within host cells-with acting in symbiosis emerging as the best way of doing so.

    Bear in mind that bacteria can share DNA-if a gene for sharing atp with the host cell was advantageous, it would spread rapidly. Defensive mechanisms would no longer be worth 'spending' materials on, and so the genes for them would be phased out. It would be worthwhile for both the mitochondria and the host cell to become closer, reaching their current state of complete reliance on eachother. The larger, double membrane that you mention would emerge as a positive adaptation of mitochondria after they have already begun to 'cooperate' with host cells.
    Cells are not ' concious ' a defense mecanism expels anything alien, good, or bad UNLESS it has receptors for it ect.
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    (Original post by sixthformer)
    Cells are not ' concious ' a defense mecanism expels anything alien, good, or bad UNLESS it has receptors for it ect.

    And there is a long list of viruses and single-celled organisms that have the correct extra-cellular chemistry to gain entry into human cells. How have they developed this chemistry? You can observe it in the lab - it's called micro-evolution.
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    (Original post by sixthformer)

    Now, can anyone actually tell me how mitochondria AT ALL would be allowed into a cell WITHOUT the cell bringing up it's 'defences' and removing the thread immediately?
    Who really cares?

    Let us assume no one knows. You cannot then say that disproves or proves anything.
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    Ha ha.

    Oh wow.
 
 
 
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