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    (Original post by AnarchistNutter)
    Yeah, I'm at 6th form college now (3rd/last year). Might consider higher education in a year or two, depending on how things go. I might not go for some time though (or at all). You?
    I'm in my second and final year of sixth form. After this, I take a gap year. I don't have any plans to go to university, mainly because I don't feel as attached to the idea compared to my mindset say, a year ago. The idea just isn't appealing and I would only go to such an institution to specifically learn about something. The rise in fees doesn't particularly entice me, regardless of whether or not I get three As. I'm not going to rule it out completely but it looks like a stark choice to me at the moment.
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    (Original post by ANARCHY__)
    I'm in my second and final year of sixth form. After this, I take a gap year. I don't have any plans to go to university, mainly because I don't feel as attached to the idea compared to my mindset say, a year ago. The idea just isn't appealing and I would only go to such an institution to specifically learn about something. The rise in fees doesn't particularly entice me, regardless of whether or not I get three As. I'm not going to rule it out completely but it looks like a stark choice to me at the moment.
    There's always the choice of an open uni degree. That's the most likely course for me - much freer, much more choice and flexibility over time, etc. I'd have rather done that than college, tbh.
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    (Original post by AnarchistNutter)
    There's always the choice of an open uni degree. That's the most likely course for me - much freer, much more choice and flexibility over time, etc. I'd have rather done that than college, tbh.
    That's true. The only thing that's important to me when I'm doing a degree is whether I'd learn anything substantial. If that course offers it, I'm more than willing to try that.
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    Ok your ideal scenario, parliament is dissolved, there are no political parties in the way they exist now anyway, no Labour, Lib dems, conservatives, green party, BNP, whatever

    Then what? Would you have any form of government, how would society and the country be governed
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    (Original post by lukejoshjedi)
    Ok your ideal scenario, parliament is dissolved, there are no political parties in the way they exist now anyway, no Labour, Lib dems, conservatives, green party, BNP, whatever

    Then what? Would you have any form of government, how would society and the country be governed
    Free association.

    Also, there needs to be a revolutionary mindset before parliament is dissolved and capitalism overthrown or the revolution is doomed to failure. Look into Catalonia.
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    (Original post by lukejoshjedi)
    Ok your ideal scenario, parliament is dissolved, there are no political parties in the way they exist now anyway, no Labour, Lib dems, conservatives, green party, BNP, whatever

    Then what? Would you have any form of government, how would society and the country be governed
    "In Spain, millions of people took large segments of the
    economy into their own hands, collectivised them, administered
    them, even abolished money and lived by communistic principles
    of work and distribution -- all of this in the midst of a terrible
    civil war, yet without producing the chaos or even the serious
    dislocations that were and still are predicted by authoritarian
    'radicals.' Indeed, in many collectivised areas, the efficiency
    with which an enterprise worked by far exceeded that of a
    comparable one in nationalised or private sectors. This 'green
    shoot' of revolutionary reality has more meaning for us than
    the most persuasive theoretical arguments to the contrary. On
    this score it is not the anarchists who are the 'unrealistic
    day-dreamers,' but their opponents who have turned their backs
    to the facts or have shamelessly concealed them."
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    (Original post by lukejoshjedi)
    Ok your ideal scenario, parliament is dissolved, there are no political parties in the way they exist now anyway, no Labour, Lib dems, conservatives, green party, BNP, whatever

    Then what? Would you have any form of government, how would society and the country be governed
    Market anarchists like myself would see this as an example of an emerging gap in the market, which private defence/police firms would soon fill. Anarchism though would require a dramatic shift away from involuntary collectivism and reliance on the state though. Check this out.

    In short, our ideal scenario would not be government being dissolved overnight. This would be disastrous for anarchism!
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    (Original post by AnarchistNutter)
    You see I think that capitalism subdues the spirit of revolt in people: authoritarian infrastructures tell workers that any form of objection to the hierarchy (e.g. strikes, trade unionism, etc.) is "counter-productive" and that they are best to just bend-over and take it: in the "long run" they will get better paid if they just "stick with it". I think it is a brilliant idea to have a society with energetic, youthful ideas that don't just pop on their rain coat and get to work under a grey sky doing the same old, boring, repetitive work every day but one which constantly questions all illegitimate forms of authority and faces the full heat of the storm head on.

    Not - necessarily - communes can peacefully coexist in the same neighbourhood. Communes would want to keep their members pleased though, for obvious reasons. You don't even have to be part of a commune: all you need to do is co-operate with a commune to get goods and services back from the commune (i.e. trade your goods and services with said commune).

    Yeah but I don't believe such a revolutionary mindset will be accomplished via ancap: naturally under a libertarian communist society people would be more prone to questioning authority and therefore more prone to questioning (and actually thinking about) moral rights - including whether or not animals have rights.

    Edit - another problem of course, would be the non-directivity of the free market. People can't see the (indirect) consequences of their actions when they buy a burger from Burger King (i.e., they don't know what the company is doing to animals). But, if they are working in/with the commune (which will have all sorts of lines of labour, including agricultural lines [farming], environmental lines [e.g. surveying the woods and local habitats], etc.) then they will see the consequences of their actions through a great diversity of different jobs and activities.
    What on Earth is “the spirit of revolt in people”? Is it the condition of seeing the entire world in “exploiter” vs. “exploited”? People revolt against the use of force & violence against them. Laissez-faire Capitalism is a system that tends away from the use of force used against man.

    I am really getting tired of your rhetoric about how capitalism is “authoritarian”; and how workers are exploited for being told what to do. I can’t believe despite all the posts we have discussed you still persist with this.

    Why is there a gap between the worker and the owner? Because the worker has nothing to lose!! He gets paid no matter what happens to the business. He has absolutely no interest in how the business performs (in as much as it threatens his job). When it comes to the owner it is very very different. Why are you choosing to ignore this obvious and crucial point? The owner has saved up HIS own resources and places them under certain amounts of risk. Why, in the name of common sense, should the worker (who placed no risk on any saved resources) get an equal say to the guy (who has everything to lose)? I think you’re deliberately being dense now.

    How is questioning animal rights “revolutionary”? How does Capitalism reduce that? You do realise that Laissez-faire Capitalism is a system where people undergo voluntary mutually-beneficial transactions? They are free. How does being free suddenly mean I can’t think about how I treat animals?

    There wouldn’t be a Burger King in the communes buddy. There would be basic food, like bread, and there will be massive queues for the food – in the spirit of central planning. There would be nothing for anyone to enjoy themselves with unless the commune-overlord-committee thought it was necessary, and managed to pull it off. The concept of the “self” would become a taboo. I think the communes would be the worst setup possible on Earth. I’d much rather live in North Korea tbh – even they recognise Capitalism. In the communes, not only do you have absolutely no rights whatsoever, but your entire existence is for the vague concept of the communes. You exist for the pleasure of the commune-overlord-committee, who’ll decide what use to make of your corpse. Important commune officials will make decisions about everything and will deploy central planning. Consequently, standards of living would remain stubbornly low or drop (as it did in the Soviet Union).

    In anarcho-capitalism, people are free. Don’t you understand there would be no commune? I won’t go up to people and force them to live in a commune, and force them to comply with my vision of how the world ought to be. For the first time in history, people will be free to be themselves with themselves. There won’t be some f*ing overlord who thinks he knows best, and demands everyone lives in his style (i.e. commune). “The human spirit” can only live and grow when they are free??? If people think they are exploited, then let them respond as they see fit. Come to think of it, why exactly do you even oppose the state?? You certainly believe in force!
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    (Original post by AnarchistNutter)
    Free association.

    Also, there needs to be a revolutionary mindset before parliament is dissolved and capitalism overthrown or the revolution is doomed to failure. Look into Catalonia.
    Sounds like you're the new government!

    Telling people what is needed, how it is going to happen, and whether you think it is right.
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    (Original post by JakePearson)
    In short, our ideal scenario would not be government being dissolved overnight. This would be disastrous for anarchism!
    I agree.

    Anarchism should take people by surprise. "Oh, look you have no more government"
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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    ...
    Ok. I sense an angry tone. I do not mean to offend as can easily become the case when discussing politics. Let us draw a line now.
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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    I agree.

    Anarchism should take people by surprise. "Oh, look you have no more government"
    Hehe, did you get my email?
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    (Original post by AnarchistNutter)
    Ok. I sense an angry tone. I do not mean to offend as can easily become the case when discussing politics. Let us draw a line now.
    Not angry, but perhaps frustrated. That happens when I am wet, have a bottle of wine, and discussing politics.
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    (Original post by JakePearson)
    Hehe, did you get my email?
    Yes. I chuckled on the journey home on the bus :suith:.
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    Can a anarcho-capitalist tell me the practicality of private justice system/police force? Wouldn't the rich be immune to jail? Couldn't criminals set up their own jails and help other criminals?

    Also, recommend me some books on the subject because i'm new to it.
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    Also, recommend me some books on the subject because i'm new to it.
    I don't know about your question on anarcho-capitalism, but there are some links you might find useful on the first post. As well as that, for anarchist principles, I would recommend reading some Kropotkin, Rocker and whatever else any of the anarcho-capitalists on here suggest. I'm sure everyone else would like to help you out with your questions too.
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    Can a anarcho-capitalist tell me the practicality of private justice system/police force? Wouldn't the rich be immune to jail? Couldn't criminals set up their own jails and help other criminals?

    Also, recommend me some books on the subject because i'm new to it.
    Hi there.

    I discussed those topics earlier in the thread. Since they're such heavy topics, I think I am going to make a big, but brief, blog post.

    I think it is important to re-evaluate all our preconceived notions of justice & liberty and go back to the drawing-board. Justice is a terribly lose term, and both sides of disagreements tend to think they ought to be getting "justice." Protection will be bought on the free-market, just like buying everything else. But just because you have a contract with a protection agency doesn't mean people won't steal from you. It is - if you like - an insurance policy, and a means of warning others against stealing from you. I made a blog post here you might find interesting: Why are Rights Respected?. The protection agency will agree with another protection agency, that if they find themselves with litigation, then they'll go to an independent arbitrator who'll go through the facts and make a decision. And that whatever he decides will be the final matter. This is a very brief introduction to a setup that, I think, might come into place. You can read something I posted here.

    The free-market is a system of profit & lose. So why would anyone create a prison? After all, he would have to pay the guy inside his meals, his heating, and so forth for the next decade at least. Prisons are terribly uneconomical. I can't imagine many existing in the free-market without taking the money off the prison to fund his prison sentence. Moreover, why would a thief build a prison?
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    I am not sure what books to recommend tbh, as an introduction. Most of them are pretty long-winded, and seem to go endlessly, but the best - in my view - is Machinery of Freedom by David Friedman. Unfortunately, it is bloody hard to get. And yes, I rent it for sexual services ..

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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    The free-market is a system of profit & lose. So why would anyone create a prison? After all, he would have to pay the guy inside his meals, his heating, and so forth for the next decade at least. Prisons are terribly uneconomical. I can't imagine many existing in the free-market without taking the money off the prison to fund his prison sentence. Moreover, why would a thief build a prison?
    But surely those who are driven to crime are those who have nothing lose, and in a free market therefore they have nothing to give. How do you punish those who steal or damage another persons property if they have no money to compensate the victim and no service to offer the victim instead? Since your suggestion is that there would be no prisons how would one go about ensuring everyone's rights to their own property are protected?
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    (Original post by Keckers)
    But surely those who are driven to crime are those who have nothing lose, and in a free market therefore they have nothing to give. How do you punish those who steal or damage another persons property if they have no money to compensate the victim and no service to offer the victim instead? Since your suggestion is that there would be no prisons how would one go about ensuring everyone's rights to their own property are protected?
    Plenty of people commit crimes, not merely those with "nothing to lose". I suspect you're referring to the homeless who are living at the margins of society in desperation? Such people would have a much better standard in anarcho-capitalism. Not only would there be fewer (since most governmental policies widen the pool of poverty) at absolute poverty, but the base of absolute poverty itself would become lower. So, there would be less-and-less of those living in absolute poverty. Those who commit such crimes and are that poor (after all, they have nothing to lose), would be stealing food from shops and such like ... And so the question is a individual question of how far they protect their property. Do they install security locks? Do they have password-access doors? Agreements with their private protection agencies and insurance companies would compel most to protect their property, even if they don't wish to?! Moreover, the thief would have to take the risk that there isn't a chap inside with shotgun ready to blow his head off! Theft is as much about punishment, as it is risk-taking at the time of theft.
 
 
 
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