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Is western media "demonizing" China? watch

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    (Original post by wilson_smith)
    It makes sense from a position of ignorance, yes, but it remains incredibly erroneous.
    Of course, but if you're not actually very interested in politics/the situation in China, if you hear that the country is run by a communist party you have no reason to doubt that. You won't look into it, you'll accept it and move on. This does not demonstrate ignorance as much as indifference.

    (Original post by wilson_smith)
    Okay well i see where you're coming from, however he theoretical conceptions of communism and dictatorship remain incompatible, hence putting them together is oxymoronic and thusly rather silly. Calling China a communist dictatorship is about as sensical as me calling North Korea a democratic dictatorship (because of it's self-declared title as the 'Democratic People's Republic of Korea').

    I wouldn't refer to it as socialism, i think that's a false attribution, but for a start socialism is not synonymous with communism, secondly the soviet-style state capitalist / state socialism practiced in China was, i think, antithetical to socialism in actuality if one considers the gaping divergences of socialist theory from the supposed socialism practiced in China - the same can be said for the Soviet Union. In fact it's a rather elementary exercise, if socialism is fundamentally common ownership of the means of production, or even more fundamentally, people running their own lives, i hardly see how state ownership of the means of production and totalitarianistic dictatorship meet these conditions. In fact it's the opposite.
    Fair enough, it's not exactly uncommon for states to call themselves communist or socialist without being so in practice. Out of curiosity, could you name a country which is/has been successfully run in a truly socialist (or communist) way?
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    (Original post by dnumberwang)
    Not many?
    Do a google search on it then
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    (Original post by cloud17)
    It's the one child policy: it is NOT the law, people with one child benefit more from the state in other words your willy does NOT get chopped off for having two kids.
    Have a look at this then http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7000931.stm

    No they just force you to have an abortion

    Activist Chen Guangcheng was sent to prison last year for exposing what he says were over-zealous health workers in Linyi city, Shandong Province.

    He says they illegally forced women to have late-term abortions and be sterilised
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    Hard to find a country the western media doesn't demonize. Individual expectations of what a nation should do are, amongst westerners, far higher than what is practical in even our own very advanced nations. The idea that the UK and US surpass China on human rights abuse is laughable. We find Guantanamo deplorable but most other nations wouldn't bat an eyelid whilst doing it themselves. I doubt they'd have even made it to detention in China.

    Our media quite rightly attacks Chinese human rights abuses. As it attacks US, European and Russian abuses. It's by no means unfair, and frankly I find your defensive stance on this issue a bit worrying.
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    (Original post by elenii)
    Of course, but if you're not actually very interested in politics/the situation in China, if you hear that the country is run by a communist party you have no reason to doubt that. You won't look into it, you'll accept it and move on.
    Agreed.

    (Original post by elenii)
    This does not demonstrate ignorance as much as indifference.
    It remains a view from a point of view of ignorance, i don't see how not. In the thought experiment you began, if the individual(s) described China as a communist country, then yes, they are likely ignorant of either (i) what conditions are necessary to meet that label or (ii) that China doesn't meet said conditions. They are either ignorant of one or the other, or are sophists/liars/mentally impeded. The ignorance is presumably resultant from indifference yes (although not necessarily), it remains ignorance however.

    (Original post by elenii)
    Fair enough, it's not exactly uncommon for states to call themselves communist or socialist without being so in practice. Out of curiosity, could you name a country which is/has been successfully run in a truly socialist (or communist) way?
    Catalonia 1936. I'm a libertarian socialist and views are shaped as such (anti-authoritarian, pro self-management, enshrinement of liberty etc.), i mean Chavez in Venezuela, Morales in Bolivia and other nations of the like practice what is somewhat akin to state socialism, but i don't believe in that.

    Also, sorry for being overly quarrelsome.. i'm bad at being affable when i write :p:
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Have a look at this then http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7000931.stm

    No they just force you to have an abortion

    Activist Chen Guangcheng was sent to prison last year for exposing what he says were over-zealous health workers in Linyi city, Shandong Province.

    He says they illegally forced women to have late-term abortions and be sterilised
    why is everyone worrying about the one child policy when bigger badder things are happening in china? oh yeah, cos it's the one most portrayed by the media. What you said happened sounds horrible, but at the end of the day, the policy is a good idea as without it, china wouldn't be able to feed its huge population in the future. Its a stark choice - one child for all or possible starvation of millions in the future?

    The worst thing about china is my opinion is the corruption. It's actually everywhere - the police force, schools, you name it. When I went to kindergarten there, my mum and dad had to send the teachers gifts to make sure they look after me as well as the other children. and it was always the rich parents children who were given unfair advantages. if this is what happens from a young age, what must it be like in the 'adult' world?
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    (Original post by CountDuckula)
    why is everyone worrying about the one child policy when bigger badder things are happening in china? oh yeah, cos it's the one most portrayed by the media. What you said happened sounds horrible, but at the end of the day, the policy is a good idea as without it, china wouldn't be able to feed its huge population in the future. Its a stark choice - one child for all or possible starvation of millions in the future?

    The worst thing about china is my opinion is the corruption. It's actually everywhere - the police force, schools, you name it. When I went to kindergarten there, my mum and dad had to send the teachers gifts to make sure they look after me as well as the other children. and it was always the rich parents children who were given unfair advantages. if this is what happens from a young age, what must it be like in the 'adult' world?
    China seems to have a whole host of problems that are going to be difficult to face. Even things like mental heath issues and obesity are becoming very big problems.
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    (Original post by Jedbrien)
    Hey guys,

    Reading the news daily,I can't help but notice that occasionally,the western media (CNN and sometimes BBC) pictures China as a country who is heartless,has no respect for human rights,dictatorship etc.etc. However,this past summer,i went to China for holiday,and it was nothing like the western media pictured it to be,the people all seem to enjoy life,no signs of human rights abuses (i traveled to Tibet to,the people seemed happy).

    I can't help but feel that the western media is portraying only one side of the story (Tibet),when in reality we Brits have also invaded Tibet and the world said nothing.I see that we are afraid of a communist country rising,and i know they aren't the nicest people,but neither were we when we colonized 1/4 of the world,or when the Americans drove the Indians off their land.

    Are we right to be complaining about China when we don't have a clean record either? Do you think that the western media is demonizing China? As a westerner,do you think China is a cold,heartless dictatorship?
    I'm pretty sure we colonised a third of the world.... just saying
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    China has too many males, Russia has too many females. Just sayin'.
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    (Original post by Jedbrien)
    Hey guys,

    Reading the news daily,I can't help but notice that occasionally,the western media (CNN and sometimes BBC) pictures China as a country who is heartless,has no respect for human rights,dictatorship etc.etc. However,this past summer,i went to China for holiday,and it was nothing like the western media pictured it to be,the people all seem to enjoy life,no signs of human rights abuses (i traveled to Tibet to,the people seemed happy).

    I can't help but feel that the western media is portraying only one side of the story (Tibet),when in reality we Brits have also invaded Tibet and the world said nothing.I see that we are afraid of a communist country rising,and i know they aren't the nicest people,but neither were we when we colonized 1/4 of the world,or when the Americans drove the Indians off their land.

    Are we right to be complaining about China when we don't have a clean record either? Do you think that the western media is demonizing China? As a westerner,do you think China is a cold,heartless dictatorship?
    What are all this West-East ideologies?

    All media, from whichever country or hemisphere, is designed to influence your thoughts and opinions anyhow. It is those that are clever and intelligent that are not easily influenced.

    I have been to China - and whilst there may be a lot of poverty and pollution in some areas, it is generally a nice place.
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    Why are the non Chinese people pretending to care?
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    (Original post by LaughingBro)
    Why are the non Chinese people pretending to care?
    Internationalist view points
    or...
    Chinese boys are damn cute.
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    I must say that China is most certainly not a communist state economically, let alone socially. China has massive state ownership and is very authoritarian (normally indicative of authoritarian socialism), however economically it is run very much in a authoritarian capitalist manner (lots of regulation). I can see what the poster earlier said in terms of there being two sides of the country being run because away from the big cities the story is very different, however on a political compass taking everything into account, i would go for +3 (capitalist), +7 (authoritarian).
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    Did you visit Tiananmen Square? If so did you get strange looks from the locals? This is because they have no idea about tank man, as the media and the internet is censored.
    No its because I sat on a bench and masturbated while singing "More then a Feeling".

    (Original post by dnumberwang)
    Tiananmen Square is seen as a tourist attraction by chinese tourists and locals as well in case you didn't know. So there's no reason they'd be surprised.
    Its funny really. Just looking at these posts, the OPs point shines through. The people who are commenting on human rights abuses, lack of free speech and government propoganda are the ones that actually havent set foot anywhere near China.
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    (Original post by wilson_smith)
    It remains a view from a point of view of ignorance, i don't see how not. In the thought experiment you began, if the individual(s) described China as a communist country, then yes, they are likely ignorant of either (i) what conditions are necessary to meet that label or (ii) that China doesn't meet said conditions. They are either ignorant of one or the other, or are sophists/liars/mentally impeded. The ignorance is presumably resultant from indifference yes (although not necessarily), it remains ignorance however.
    Okay, fair enough. (:

    (Original post by wilson_smith)
    Catalonia 1936. I'm a libertarian socialist and views are shaped as such (anti-authoritarian, pro self-management, enshrinement of liberty etc.), i mean Chavez in Venezuela, Morales in Bolivia and other nations of the like practice what is somewhat akin to state socialism, but i don't believe in that.
    Thanks for the examples, I will look them up. One of the things you hear a lot is that "Communism/Socialism only works in theory" or that "There are no successfully communist/socialist states", although to be fair a lot of people say this mainly about communism. It's just that people do link the two and I've also heard it about socialism. I do take this sort of statement with a grain of salt.

    (Original post by wilson_smith)
    Also, sorry for being overly quarrelsome.. i'm bad at being affable when i write :p:
    Nah, I enjoy this kind of discussions, I don't think you were particularly aggressive! And thanks for the rep! ^_^
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    (Original post by elenii)
    Thanks for the examples, I will look them up. One of the things you hear a lot is that "Communism/Socialism only works in theory" or that "There are no successfully communist/socialist states", although to be fair a lot of people say this mainly about communism. It's just that people do link the two and I've also heard it about socialism. I do take this sort of statement with a grain of salt.
    Cool, please do, you might want to start here.

    Well the suposedly communist states are largely what i, and i think most others, see as the natural result of the application of authoritarian marxist dogma, that being, that the transitional state proposed, the dictatorship of the proletariat, would naturally result in such vile pseudo-socialist despots. I rather adhere to libertarian socialism / anarchism who oppose such, and did so before it even bore practice. In fact, Bakunin in the 19th century made, what i think are, some of the only accurate predictions to occur in the social sciences in his critique of marxism, claiming; "take the most radical revolutionary and place him on the throne of all russia, or give him a dictatorial power, and before a year has passed he will become worse than the tsar himself"; "the red bureacracy would prove the most vile and terrible lie of the century."

    I don't think authoritarian marxism works in theory or practice (although i think marxism provides valuable means of critiquing and understanding capitalism), i think communism, predominantly anarcho-communism or even left-communism / council communism works in theory, but it has yet to be attempted, unless you count the anarcho-syndicalism of Eastern Spain.

    State socialism has been practiced widely, such as the 21st century socialism of the ALBA states of Latin America. I don't think libertarian-socialism has boar practice on a nation-state level, but it has found practice in the Spanish Revolution, the Free Territory of Ukraine with regards to the Makhnovists, the Kibbutz of Israel, the Paris Commune and other such occurrences.

    Do you subscribe to an ideology?

    (Original post by elenii)
    Nah, I enjoy this kind of discussions, I don't think you were particularly aggressive! And thanks for the rep! ^_^
    Hm that's good then, and it's fine :yy:
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    (Original post by wilson_smith)
    Cool, please do, you might want to start here.

    Well the suposedly communist states are largely what i, and i think most others, see as the natural result of the application of authoritarian marxist dogma, that being, that the transitional state proposed, the dictatorship of the proletariat, would naturally result in such vile pseudo-socialist despots. I rather adhere to libertarian socialism / anarchism who oppose such, and did so before it even bore practice. In fact, Bakunin in the 19th century made, what i think are, some of the only accurate predictions to occur in the social sciences in his critique of marxism, claiming; "take the most radical revolutionary and place him on the throne of all russia, or give him a dictatorial power, and before a year has passed he will become worse than the tsar himself"; "the red bureacracy would prove the most vile and terrible lie of the century."

    I don't think authoritarian marxism works in theory or practice (although i think marxism provides valuable means of critiquing and understanding capitalism), i think communism, predominantly anarcho-communism or even left-communism / council communism works in theory, but it has yet to be attempted, unless you count the anarcho-syndicalism of Eastern Spain.

    State socialism has been practiced widely, such as the 21st century socialism of the ALBA states of Latin America. I don't think libertarian-socialism has boar practice on a nation-state level, but it has found practice in the Spanish Revolution, the Free Territory of Ukraine with regards to the Makhnovists, the Kibbutz of Israel, the Paris Commune and other such occurrences.

    Do you subscribe to an ideology?
    Excellent, I'll look into that.

    What you've said is fascinating - I've actually met quite a few people with your views. With the Cyprus problem and all, we have significant numbers of people from all parts of the political spectrum.

    Personally I'm not politically aligned just yet, it's an issue I'm only now looking into.
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    In short, yes.
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    (Original post by elenii)
    Excellent, I'll look into that.

    What you've said is fascinating - I've actually met quite a few people with your views. With the Cyprus problem and all, we have significant numbers of people from all parts of the political spectrum.

    Personally I'm not politically aligned just yet, it's an issue I'm only now looking into.
    I'm glad someone finds it interesting anyway.

    I was pretty pretty much the same at your age, if not worse. Well if you want anything else, questions or anything really, feel free to PM me been nice talking..
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    WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP SAYING THIS? How is China communist?
    Does it matter if they are technically communist? The average person thinks they are communists, and that's who the right-wing propaganda ensnares.
 
 
 
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