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    Hi guys, thought this would be a good place to get some advice from people who have had similar experiences or any other advice that I can pass on to my younger brother.
    Basically, he's always been the smart one and worked hard to get into medicine, doing community work etc. He got into medicine and told me he was finding it hard but I know its always been his dream and he managed to get through his first year. In his second year he seemed different than usual and when asked about his course he would always jus say it was alrite and leave it at that. He did some sort of dissertation thing which his received an excellent grade so we all thought he was doing fine.

    However, he then received the results that he failed the year and on talking to him about he said that in the beginning of second year he struggled with the workload and balancing his going out and other activities which lead to him getting a low grade in his feb exams. I managed to talk to him more and he finally opened up and he said he went through a rut during the later part of the second year due to his failure and became very depressed and emotional and felt he could not go on. However, he said he didnt want to give up on his dream of medicine so tried to work for the exam and although he did better, he failed overall. I think this impacted his chances for his resit because he did not truly believe he could pass them.

    The university has said that he can't retake the year because he did not give a substantial explanation to why he failed both the summer exam and the resit and beleive that this reflects his academic ability. I thing this is ridiculous that he cant be given another chance to prove himself as he is now getting support for his depression and I know he should have spoken up earlier but I can understand why he didnt want anyone to know and wanted to carry on. This uni has also let a person who was caught cheating carry on doing medicine while my brother who struggled with depression cannot be given another chance.

    I want to give him some advice and reassurance because at the moment he is in a bad way and just stays at home lying in front of the tv and has stopped eating from what i have seen when ive been around. Is his dream of medicine over or is there any way he can get back in. My parents have been supporting him and have said they will support him financially no matter how long it takes for him to do medicine. Is there a way he could get back into medicine, like doing another degree and then doing grad medicine or transferring?
    Hopefully there is a way because im afraid he will give up totally he hears that he can never do medicine.

    Cheers
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    I'm surprised they won't allow him to resit again. Unis hate having their fail rates go up and getting an extra year of fees seems to be a good thing for them.
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    There are graduate entry medicine programs at, i think, all universities that offer the regular medicine program. Some may ask for a degree in a biological science (makes things easier) while others might have no requirements - any degree would suffice.

    The thing is that these programs are 4 years I believe. So you basically condense the first two years in the one year, and then in your second year you're integrated with the third years. Since your brother has done the first two years it could be easier on him, but getting another degree when his passion is medicine, is not only a waste of money and time, but also talent.

    The fact that they won't let him resit or retake the year again is ridiculous. Sure you failed the summer exam and resit, but that should stop you from progressing to the third year. You should be allowed to stay in the second and do it again. They shouldn't kick you out because of that. Besides, as you said, he got an excellent for one of his dissertations so you can show that as proof that he just had an off day or whatever.

    Get yourself or your parents to talk to the university, dean of medicine, academic adviser -whoever was in charge of overseeing his academic progress, or the department - and convey to them your brother's situation. Why he failed, what he's doing now to help himself, why you think he wouldn't fail again and why he should get another chance to prove it.

    If that fails then look into transferring to another university, with the credit so that he can start at year 2 and not at the beginning.
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    I'm surprised they won't allow him to resit again. Unis hate having their fail rates go up and getting an extra year of fees seems to be a good thing for them.
    No, they have a duty of care to the public to uphold and adhere to at all times. Allowing students to graduate as healthcare professionals who have not met the requirements of the course as agreed upon by the affiliated organisations is in breach of this code of ethics and totally irresponsible.

    To answer the OP, I believe every UK medical school have a policy of not accepting students who have left medicine for whatever reason. It is cruel but that is life. I don't know about entry into the other professions but I suspect a failed medic entering dentistry would also raise eyebrows.
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    thanks, yeh Im going to go with him to his uni as he has a meeting with the student union to help him appeal. He has to make a letter of appeal and then if thats accepted then he go in front of a panel but he keeps telling me this has never happened before and no appeals have been successful.
    I told him its not the end of the world and that he's smart, got good A levels and there are other opportunities out there for him but he isnt having any of it, medicine he said is all he wants to do.
    I dont want to tell him that door is closed to him so I want to know realistically what are his chances of:
    1. reapplying to other unis to do medicine from scratch by explaining his situation, what he has done to get better and steps he will do so it doesnt occur again - i know this is probably impossible but even if there is a minute chance i reckon he should try
    2. doing another degree like biomedical sciences and then going for graduate medicine or I've heard of people transferring into 3rd year medicine - will he be able to get into biomedical sciences and if he does graduate, will his previous failure prevent him applying from medicine

    Also if the uni reject his appeal which he thinks they will, surely they should allow him to transfer to another course as because they only made a decision last week so its too late for him to apply to other unis and it will mean a year will be wasted which I dont think will be good for him as he already thinks he's wasted 2 years.
    Are there any other options? I really want to help him as I've never seen him like this. I convinced him to go see a counsellor which hopefully will help him. Also any more advice/words of wisdom I could give him?

    Thanks
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    (Original post by pinoy07)
    thanks, yeh Im going to go with him to his uni as he has a meeting with the student union to help him appeal. He has to make a letter of appeal and then if thats accepted then he go in front of a panel but he keeps telling me this has never happened before and no appeals have been successful.
    I told him its not the end of the world and that he's smart, got good A levels and there are other opportunities out there for him but he isnt having any of it, medicine he said is all he wants to do.
    I dont want to tell him that door is closed to him so I want to know realistically what are his chances of:
    1. reapplying to other unis to do medicine from scratch by explaining his situation, what he has done to get better and steps he will do so it doesnt occur again - i know this is probably impossible but even if there is a minute chance i reckon he should try
    2. doing another degree like biomedical sciences and then going for graduate medicine or I've heard of people transferring into 3rd year medicine - will he be able to get into biomedical sciences and if he does graduate, will his previous failure prevent him applying from medicine

    Also if the uni reject his appeal which he thinks they will, surely they should allow him to transfer to another course as because they only made a decision last week so its too late for him to apply to other unis and it will mean a year will be wasted which I dont think will be good for him as he already thinks he's wasted 2 years.
    Are there any other options? I really want to help him as I've never seen him like this. I convinced him to go see a counsellor which hopefully will help him. Also any more advice/words of wisdom I could give him?

    Thanks
    No other medical school will accept him for transfer or for graduate entry medicine after doing a degree given the fact he has failed medical school before, for whatever reason. I know someone who left medicine due to being raped at the end of 3rd year and after she did biomed was rejected from all med schools again and again. However she applied to dentistry as a graduate 3 years graduating from biomed and got into that so that may be an option. Similarly I know someone who failed dentistry and got kicked out, did biomed and is now studying medicine in their 2nd year at southampton - however i suspect he lied on his ucas form to cover fialing dental school up.

    Options 1 and 2 that you mention are impossible. See what the results of appeal are and get him onto another degree - pharmacy or biomed may be good ideas and then he can apply to dentistry afterwards. Or he could just switch field entirely - engineering or whatever...
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    If he wants it hard enough, he will succeed.

    You as his sister, help him through it!
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    (Original post by dilipd)
    No other medical school will accept him for transfer or for graduate entry medicine after doing a degree given the fact he has failed medical school before, for whatever reason. I know someone who left medicine due to being raped at the end of 3rd year and after she did biomed was rejected from all med schools again and again. However she applied to dentistry as a graduate 3 years graduating from biomed and got into that so that may be an option. Similarly I know someone who failed dentistry and got kicked out, did biomed and is now studying medicine in their 2nd year at southampton - however i suspect he lied on his ucas form to cover fialing dental school up.

    Options 1 and 2 that you mention are impossible. See what the results of appeal are and get him onto another degree - pharmacy or biomed may be good ideas and then he can apply to dentistry afterwards. Or he could just switch field entirely - engineering or whatever...
    k thanks. I will see what he thinks about denistry but doubt he will go for it. what about options abroad? nd wat about doing medicine later on if life, e.g. doing a medically related degree now, working for a bit and then going into medicine. I know that sounds weird but im pretty sure he will never be happen unless he's a doctor. I'm not going to say anything to him now because scared he might do something if he thinks doing medicine again is impossible.
    cheers for all the help. ill update with the results of appeal and what the uni says cos going to try and get them to offer him something, another course or at least some good advice, instead of just saying we dont think you're smart enough so bye, but if you cheated then we would have let you carry on.
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    (Original post by Jordan H)
    If he wants it hard enough, he will succeed.

    You as his sister, help him through it!
    cheers, hopefully your words come true and not the other guy lol. btw im his older brother lol but ill pass the message on to his sister aswel.
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    (Original post by pinoy07)
    cheers, hopefully your words come true and not the other guy lol. btw im his older brother lol but ill pass the message on to his sister aswel.
    Ohhh sorry, my mistake.

    Just replace my comment with 'brother' and my point still stands
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    (Original post by pinoy07)
    k thanks. I will see what he thinks about denistry but doubt he will go for it. what about options abroad? nd wat about doing medicine later on if life, e.g. doing a medically related degree now, working for a bit and then going into medicine. I know that sounds weird but im pretty sure he will never be happen unless he's a doctor. I'm not going to say anything to him now because scared he might do something if he thinks doing medicine again is impossible.
    cheers for all the help. ill update with the results of appeal and what the uni says cos going to try and get them to offer him something, another course or at least some good advice, instead of just saying we dont think you're smart enough so bye, but if you cheated then we would have let you carry on.
    What uni is it? They should allow him to transfer to biomed or something and he may even be exempt from 1st year so he can go directly into year 2. Sometimes we just have to accept what life throws at us and accept that things aren't perfect. He had his chance and he really should have said at an earlier point that he was suffering - part of being a dr is about know your own limitations and not letting things affecting you work whether that be academic or clinical. If he is appealing, make sure he gets all relevant facts together but for his own sake he need sto come to terms with reality and accept that he may not get in to medicine. medicine really isn't the be all and end all
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    ive been chatting to him and i reckon he is warming to the biomed idea, even though he'll have to start agen, it should be easier as they do cover the same basics dont they? nd i know he'll get a first in the degree because once he gets over his depression he is the type of person that wants to prove he is the best if he fails first time round, i remember him being predicted a D or a C at AS level for maths i think and he ended up with a A and top in his class.
    biomed shud open more doors into the healthcare world at graduate level nd hopefully if he excels in his degree, the same uni can see that he does have the academic ability and has learnt from his mistakes and matured to able to handle watever pressures, stress made him fail and so should be given the same opportunity as other graduates in applying for medicine/denistry. its a long road, i hope u guys who are medics think its worth it. i know i cudnt spend that long studying. means he cud spend 10 years in uni in total, ill probs make fun of him later on. i dnt ever think he's going to give up hope on medicine even if i tell him it is impossible. i can see him becoming a doctor one way or the other because i know he has the ability, determination and committment. reckon wat i can do to help him is change my job to politician to get some laws changed about reapplying students nd get unis to consider these students with interviews and even give them certain stipulations to follow (like a certain percentage over pass). thats the dream though.
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    He isn't limited to medical schools in this country. And it does seem unlikely that he would be accepted in any university in this country - which is something that he should stress when he goes to his appeal. He should be able to claim extenuating circumstances.

    If he is refused then his other option is the Biomed degree. So if he completes the Biomed degree successfully there is nothing to stop him from applying to a med school in Australia, Canada, New Zealand or America. I chose those countries because he may not have a second language.
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    I want to give him some advice and reassurance because at the moment he is in a bad way and just stays at home lying in front of the tv and has stopped eating from what i have seen when ive been around. Is his dream of medicine over or is there any way he can get back in. My parents have been supporting him and have said they will support him financially no matter how long it takes for him to do medicine. Is there a way he could get back into medicine, like doing another degree and then doing grad medicine or transferring?
    Hopefully there is a way because im afraid he will give up totally he hears that he can never do medicine.

    Cheers[/QUOTE]

    Unis are ridiculous, I cant believe they let the cheat pass and leave your brother ah. I want to do medicine to and I know how he must feel as I would also be devastated omg, maybe applying to another uni would be right ah they cant do this, its stupid!
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    (Original post by pinoy07)
    This uni has also let a person who was caught cheating carry on doing medicine while my brother who struggled with depression cannot be given another chance.

    I want to give him some advice and reassurance because at the moment he is in a bad way and just stays at home lying in front of the tv and has stopped eating from what i have seen when ive been around. Is his dream of medicine over or is there any way he can get back in. My parents have been supporting him and have said they will support him financially no matter how long it takes for him to do medicine. Is there a way he could get back into medicine, like doing another degree and then doing grad medicine or transferring?
    Hopefully there is a way because im afraid he will give up totally he hears that he can never do medicine.

    Cheers
    A couple of points.

    I too suffered from depression in second year (common theme!?) and it was awful, but I let the medical school know ASAP that I was having problems. Your brother didn't and that is part of taking responsibility for your own health on a professional course, you must let the relevant people know if you are struggling for whatever reason. It is no excuse to drop the bombshell AFTER the exam.

    Secondly, he was given another chance. He had a resit to do.

    instead of just saying we dont think you're smart enough so bye
    What do you expect? Getting into medical school is not a free pass to graduation! The medical schools have a duty to produce competent doctors, if you are not up to the standard then goodbye! It is unfortunate that your brother didn't think to declare his problems earlier on, if he did and had medical proof then he would have had a better chance at being able to retake the year.

    struggled with the workload and balancing his going out
    This suggests he has a degree of responsibility at least!
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    exactly how I and i expect he feels, not only that but he has told me that he has heard of other people who lied about mitigating cirumstances and got back in for another try. cheats and liars seem to be a good combination at this uni for getting second chances. yeh if what you say is true, the biomed then abroad option seems good. will he have no chance at graduate medicine in UK then, even if he gets exceptional marks/does clinical work/all the things he did when he first applied.

    going abroad would be really expensive, pretty sure my parents would pay for him but means less money for me lol
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    thanks digitalis, i do agree with your points especially about him letting the school know as soon as it occured. i do think however, that because a person was too ashamed or wanted to work through it themselves that it should not count against them. telling people after the exam may seem like making excuses but what do you do if you think you can succeed and then fail, u explain the situation.
    Yes his resit was a second chance but not a realisitc chance. from the 20 or 25 so people who sat the resit only 5 or 6 passed.I know you must be thinking like i was, why wasnt he one of those ppl and even though I did see him put a lot of work into his resit and he seemed optimistic about it but i dont think he truly beleive he could cover the workload of revising the two years (instead of the semester).
    he has told me about someone who lied about having family problems and has got through and i know he is probably thinking that he should have done the same so he could have a chance.

    he is taking full responsiblity for his failures but his state during that time must have drastically affected him. im going with him tomoro to his uni as he wants to talk to the student union and a careers advisors. i might try and find some of his friends to see what he was like because one of his housemates in the past did talk to me saying they were worried bout him but then things died down so ill try get more info.

    i dont know about you guys but i believe all students who failed their exams shud b given the chance at redoing the year. only those whose professionalism is the course is poor should be kicked out
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    (Original post by Jordan H)
    If he wants it hard enough, he will succeed.

    You as his sister, help him through it!
    Medic 13??" So you're what, barely starting GCSEs??

    Please sod off, at least from giving us your wisdom re medical school.

    OP - Exhaust every appeal process necessary and possible - once you're kicked out of a course, no medical school in the UK will accept you without a virtually miraculous intervention.
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    yeh he's finished making his appeal letter which goes into more detail of what he was going through and how he has now gone to receive support and has learnt from his mistakes and knows what to do in the future, he also put something like he knows he shouldnt question the academic judgement of the panel but strongly feels he has not shown this and requests another opportunity to prove himself with the improvements he has made in his work and life. btw his mates have told him to include something about getting the same opportunity as the person who was caught cheating but i told him not to say anything bout that but concentrate on his problems and what he will do to improve.

    btw i was thinking, is it worth talking to the uni he is at to get a transfer to something like biomed and let him prove his academic ability by getting a first or watever and then allowing him to reapply to medicine at the same uni
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    Sorry to hear about your brother. Surely the most important thing is your brother's health and perhaps it's better for his mental health if everyone around him stops treating a career in medicine as though it's the only thing that's going to make him feel better. Perhaps he feels as though everyone loves him conditionally for being the smart one at med school?

    It seems bizarre that med schools look for empathy in their prospective candidates but are ares seemingly unable to demonstrate empathy themselves.
 
 
 
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