Scrap "Mickey Mouse" Degrees!

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im so academic
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#61
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#61
(Original post by .Ali.)
Agree. Uni should be for academic purposes, the 50% target is so stupid. It's not a God Given right to go to uni, it is (or should be, rather) if you have the intelligence and drive.
This. And this is not elitist in terms of money, but elitist in terms of academia.

Is it politically incorrect to say some people just can not go to university? :facepalm2:
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ginkgo832
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#62
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#62
(Original post by ginkgo832)
The most well off would go to uni, not the 'smartest'

If you look at IQ tests taken from a range of children at say 5 years there are many really bright ones and some relatively bright, basically a general mix. Now when the same group of kids are tested at a later age those of a better social class had maintained if not increased their intelligence whilst the poorer kids were the ones whose IQ reduced. There have been many studies like this, go read at your leisure. Anyway the point is, this would create an even larger divide in class bevause.generally speaking graduate jobs are better paid than say working as a cleanet.

Your suggestion is effectively condemning those without the finances to hone and educate their children to a high degree, to a life of limited opportunity. It's stupid. Of course people exist who succeed despite the circumstances they grew up in but they are few and far between. Also it depends not just on your parents finances but also the social dynamics of your childhood, ethics and culture.

The point is these degrees do allow more and more people to widen their horizon and access further education and will of course help them in some way or other. Having a mickey mouse degree is better than having no degree if said mouse is of interest to you or will aid you in life.
Im on my phone :fyi:
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.Ali.
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#63
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#63
(Original post by im so academic)
People are tricked into thinking that BA Media is equivalent to BA (Oxon) Mathematics.
This. My tutor told us "it doesn't matter what you go or where you do, a degree is a degree". Bull****. It matters and the intelligent people know it.
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ginkgo832
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#64
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#64
(Original post by im so academic)
This. And this is not elitist in terms of money, but elitist in terms of academia.

Is it politically incorrect to say some people just can not go to university? :facepalm2:
But there is a correlation between the two.
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haylo13
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#65
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#65
(Original post by Quirynn)
Nah, they shouldn't be scrapped.
Some people actually take the degree as they enjoy what they're learning, not to benefit from some fantastically paid job, believe it or not!
100% agree with this.

Everyone is not the same!
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.Ali.
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#66
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#66
(Original post by im so academic)
This. And this is not elitist in terms of money, but elitist in terms of academia.

Is it politically incorrect to say some people just can not go to university? :facepalm2:
Seems it's not politically correct to have an opinion anymore. Unless you're a champagne socialist bleating about social equality, that is. :rolleyes:
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Smiles_m
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#67
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#67
(Original post by conzag123)
These degrees leave people with skills that no employer wants and thus are a waste of time and money for them and for the government. When they then can't find a job, it's the government who pays them benefits so it's a lose-lose situation for the governement.

On the other hand, Science, Engineering and Maths degrees are not funded nearly as much as they should be! The graduates from these subjects often get well paid jobs after university and pay high rates of tax, making it a win-win situation for the government!

Funding for language courses should also be increased, as we in England are simply pathetic at learning other languages and really need to raise our game on a world stage as many Britons have a terribly naive and plain wrong view that everyone in the world should speak our langauge!

Maybe funding for Economics courses should also be increased, so we don't get ourselves into such a terrible fininancial mess again!!

On the subject of "Mickey Mouse" degrees, I think it would be better for people considering taking these degrees to go and get a job insetad, as it will be much better for them in the long run, and the government. Also I think there should be a minimum set of entry grades to get into a uni in the UK - I was thinking ABB.

So, after what I've said, do you agree that "Mickey Mouse" degrees should be scrapped? And do you agree that there should be nationwide minimum entry requirements? If so, what should these requirements be?

After all, these proposals would save money and would mean only the smartest would go to uni, as it should be, not the 50% labour targeted, which is clearly ridiculous as uni is a privelege, and most certainly not a right, and so only the brightest students should aspire to go!

Thank you for reading, and I hope you have good reasons as to why such "Mickey Mouse" degrees should not be scrapped if you do not happen to share my opinion, as I would happily argue for their demise!
History and philosophy etc. are also very valid, they are academically rigorous at most unis and graduates come out with good job prospects.
I want to do medicine, but even I can see it's not just science degrees that are valid.
Music management etc. are not.
And lower than ABB?
Maybe no lower than CCC, some courses at good unis still have low grade requirements, especially less competitive subjects.
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senator88
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#68
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#68
(Original post by im so academic)
Of course not. (But that's my opinion. There are plenty of people who think it is Mickey Mouse though).
Why do they think it's mickey mouse?
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.Ali.
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#69
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#69
(Original post by haylo13)
100% agree with this.

Everyone is not the same!
Fair enough, but why should they go to uni? Uni should be for academics. They could get an apprenticeship or do vocational training.
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haylo13
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#70
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#70
(Original post by .Ali.)
Fair enough, but why should they go to uni? Uni should be for academics. They could get an apprenticeship or do vocational training.
Because they are interested in the subject and want to study it further. Why should they not be allowed to do that?
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im so academic
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#71
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#71
(Original post by ginkgo832)
The most well off would go to uni, not the 'smartest'

If you look at IQ tests taken from a range of children at say 5 years there are many really bright ones and some relatively bright, basically a general mix. Now when the same group of kids are tested at a later age those of a better social class had maintained if not increased their intelligence whilst the poorer kids were the ones whose IQ reduced. There have been many studies like this, go read at your leisure. Anyway the point is, this would create an even larger divide in class bevause.generally speaking graduate jobs are better paid than say working as a cleanet.

Your suggestion is effectively condemning those without the finances to hone and educate their children to a high degree, to a life of limited opportunity. It's stupid. Of course people exist who succeed despite the circumstances they grew up in but they are few and far between. Also it depends not just on your parents finances but also the social dynamics of your childhood, ethics and culture.

The point is these degrees do allow more and more people to widen their horizon and access further education and will of course help them in some way or other. Having a mickey mouse degree is better than having no degree if said mouse is of interest to you or will aid you in life.
That's because those who are well-off are more likely to be education-orientated in the household, e.g. reading from an earlier age, more support at home etc.

God, it's not a hard concept.
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.Ali.
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#72
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#72
(Original post by haylo13)
Because they are interested in the subject and want to study it further. Why should they not be allowed to do that?
If they pay for it themselves, the sure. :yep: Also, uni is for intelligent people, and should be for mainly academia. That's how it is. Some people just aren't cut out for it.

It should not be state funded. Especially when there are cutbacks to be made.
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im so academic
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#73
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#73
(Original post by .Ali.)
This. My tutor told us "it doesn't matter what you go or where you do, a degree is a degree". Bull****. It matters and the intelligent people know it.
:facepalm2:

We know it's true, but people just cannot accept it.

Seriously I can't believe there are people who GENUINELY believe BA Maths at Cambridge is the same as a a "BSc" at London Met.

Just compare the content FFS.
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im so academic
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#74
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#74
(Original post by haylo13)
Because they are interested in the subject and want to study it further. Why should they not be allowed to do that?
"I'm interested in learning about Pencil Sharpening Science. How come my subject is not offered at university?"

You don't have to go to university to learn. Just because you want something, it doesn't mean you can have it.
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.Ali.
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#75
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#75
(Original post by im so academic)
That's because those who are well-off are more likely to be education-orientated in the household, e.g. reading from an earlier age, more support at home etc.

God, it's not a hard concept.
I've tried to explain that so many times, people don't seem to get it.

Middle and Upper class people usually are intelligent and so raise their children right. It's not the money, they have money because they're intelligent, not the other way around...
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.Ali.
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#76
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#76
(Original post by im so academic)
:facepalm2:

We know it's true, but people just cannot accept it.

Seriously I can't believe there are people who GENUINELY believe BA Maths at Cambridge is the same as a a "BSc" at London Met.

Just compare the content FFS.
And the entry grades! I asked my politics tutor the same question and he said "Not at all, your Uni choice matters a lot.", which is right.
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ginkgo832
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#77
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#77
(Original post by im so academic)
That's because those who are well-off are more likely to be education-orientated in the household, e.g. reading from an earlier age, more support at home etc.

God, it's not a hard concept.
Yes. That is what I was getting at... If your poor or simply from a lower, less educated background your hardly going to read your kids bed time stories, send them to baby gymnastics, take them to museums/libraries. You're typically working long hours in an unstimulating job and have constant stress over money and other such things.

Money can buy education.
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im so academic
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#78
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#78
(Original post by ginkgo832)
Yes. That is what I was getting at... If your poor or simply from a lower, less educated background your hardly going to read your kids bed time stories, send them to baby gymnastics, take them to museums/libraries. You're typically working long hours in an unstimulating job and have constant stress over money and other such things.

Money can buy education.
You are right, but I would adjust the last sentence slightly:

"Money is a means to education, but the lack of it is certainly not a barrier to education".

This is why some poor students succeed and rich students fail. Money can help, but only to a certain extent.
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ginkgo832
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#79
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#79
(Original post by .Ali.)
I've tried to explain that so many times, people don't seem to get it.

Middle and Upper class people usually are intelligent and so raise their children right. It's not the money, they have money because they're intelligent, not the other way around...
Its easy to raise your kids right when your financially stable.

And fyi, education and academic success has essentially been exclusive to the rich until fairly recently. And by rich I mean 'cultured' and of a better class. I have nothing against you, i'm assuming you are middle/upper class and that is why it is harder for you to comprehend how difficult it is to succeed under the confinements of poverty and social background.
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thesalamander123
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#80
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#80
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