Does the Poppy glorify war?
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Original post by Sim188
Yes, i think it glorifies war. Sorry to say it but that's my own opinion and that's why I won't be wearing one.
Then you miss the point of what the poppy appeal is and where the money goes.
How does supporting injured soldiers glorify war?
Original post by The Cornerstone
Doesn't the white poppy represent all the victims that died in wars, both soldiers and civilians? (I'm not sure I only found out about the white poppy this morning)
The white poppy is making a political statement and, in my opinion, undermines the sacrifice of those who fought in the wars.
To me that defeats the whole purpose of Remembrance.
Original post by Aj12
Then you miss the point of what the poppy appeal is and where the money goes.
How does supporting injured soldiers glorify war?
How does supporting injured soldiers glorify war?
Because the soldiers shouldn't be out there being injured in the first place. Also it's showing support not only for those wars where we had to intervene such as WW2, but the Afghanistan war where we have no real business being there. White Poppy for peace is better than a Red Poppy because preventing soldiers from getting injured in the first place is better than (attempting to) patch them up.
Original post by Aj12
Do you actually have any clue what the money from the poppy appeal goes to?
I would prefer it if it was targeted towards preventing conflict in the first place, or also helping the innocent civilians who have equally suffered.
Original post by Aj12
Whats wrong with supporting soldiers especially when they come back from war? Some of them come back and face many many problems and in many cases there is very little government support for them so it can only come from charity.
It is still used to remember world war 1 as was its main original purpose
It is still used to remember world war 1 as was its main original purpose
Again you're missing the point. My objection is not with the idea of supporting, financially and in spirit, servicemen and women; rather it is with the use of the poppy as a very sanitised symbol for the work of the troops. Instead of using the time of remembrance as an opportunity to reflect on the waste of war, the Poppy Appeal turns it into a chance to regurgitate these vague ideas about the 'heroics' of the military and the sacrifices they continue to make for us. It's nothing more than a perpetuation of the old lie - a lie that is still used to justify young men dying absurd and meaningless deaths in poppy fields.
Original post by Olivia_Lightbulb
I would prefer it if it was targeted towards preventing conflict in the first place, or also helping the innocent civilians who have equally suffered.
Precisely. Well done dear sir, we seem to be very much alike!
Original post by Sim188
Because the soldiers shouldn't be out there being injured in the first place. Also it's showing support not only for those wars where we had to intervene such as WW2, but the Afghanistan war where we have no real business being there. White Poppy for peace is better than a Red Poppy because preventing soldiers from getting injured in the first place is better than (attempting to) patch them up.
The white poppy appeal does not raise any money for any charity I just checked their site. I don't buy a poppy because I support the wars. I buy one because I believe that when soldiers come back from war they should be supported and given help they need.
The white poppy does not help stop soldiers going to war. War is an inevitable thing and you will never stop it.
The only people who believe it glorifies war are those who are too naive to understand what it really stands for.
Of course, the way it's publicised and brought to the public's attention these days will disturb, confuse and upset veterans from wars and days gone by, but that has far more to do with the vacuous and socially abhorrent majority of the population who'll only respond when things are made 'current' and quick for them to understand.
Of course, the way it's publicised and brought to the public's attention these days will disturb, confuse and upset veterans from wars and days gone by, but that has far more to do with the vacuous and socially abhorrent majority of the population who'll only respond when things are made 'current' and quick for them to understand.
Original post by Aj12
The white poppy appeal does not raise any money for any charity I just checked their site. I don't buy a poppy because I support the wars. I buy one because I believe that when soldiers come back from war they should be supported and given help they need.
The white poppy does not help stop soldiers going to war. War is an inevitable thing and you will never stop it.
The white poppy does not help stop soldiers going to war. War is an inevitable thing and you will never stop it.
It does actually go to funding education by the Peace Pledge Union.
Any money raised over and above the cost of producing, publicising and distributing the white poppies goes to fund our education work, some of which can be seen on our main website.
I believe that the government should pay to support the soldiers.
I believe the white poppy looks back on wars and says they should not happen again.
Original post by Sim188
It does actually go to funding education by the Peace Pledge Union.
I believe that the government should pay to support the soldiers.
I believe the white poppy looks back on wars and says they should not happen again.
I believe that the government should pay to support the soldiers.
I believe the white poppy looks back on wars and says they should not happen again.
What you believe does not make it reality. The government does not support its soldiers hence the need for appeals like the poppy appeal.
Original post by Djed
And therein lies the problem. The poppy is nowadays used as a tribute to the military and what it continues to do, instead of being used as what it was originally intended to be: a symbol of remembrance for the absurd and meaningless waste of life that war entails.
I always thought it's for this
That's why we wear them for remembrance day...Original post by Sim188
Precisely. Well done dear sir, we seem to be very much alike!
Original post by Aj12
What you believe does not make it reality. The government does not support its soldiers hence the need for appeals like the poppy appeal.
Well they shouldn't have to. Let's face it, WW2 we did a good job pushing back a nazi regime and they should be remembered well.
But this war is horrible, there is no reason to be in it, injuring our own forces. That is what the white poppy stands for, it shows the people that we do not want to be involved in a near pointless war. It's just a shame that if I did have the balls to wear a white poppy, I'd get hit, spat at and cursed for looking back on past wars and saying it shouldn't happen again.
Original post by Olivia_Lightbulb
You have a great name. So inspired
Just in case people are mistaken, the RBL does not purely support former servicemen, but aids those who are able to get jobs and be productive again - a far harder transition than any of you will understand, but it also offers support and assistance to the families of service personnel in whatever way they can. As much as you might argue the Government should do this, there's a limit to how much even our welfare state is able to provide to spouses and offspring.
Those who moan about it do not understand it. It is not the RBL's fault people are so badly educated.
Those who moan about it do not understand it. It is not the RBL's fault people are so badly educated.
If there wasn't the stigma of "supporting our boys", and it was genuinely about remembering victims of all wars, then I'd buy one. However, I fail to see the heroism in volunteering to go and fight in Afghanistan when you know nothing about the war, that's state supported stupidity. I do have respect for people who fought in conscription wars (WWI, WWII, Vietnam etc.) because they had no choice, but I'm very skeptical about people who volunteer now.
Also, most of the funds from this poppy appeal are going to soldiers injured in Iraq and Afghanistan. As I don't support either of those wars, I don't want to be wearing something interpreted by most people as "I support the current wars".
Also, most of the funds from this poppy appeal are going to soldiers injured in Iraq and Afghanistan. As I don't support either of those wars, I don't want to be wearing something interpreted by most people as "I support the current wars".
I wear a poppy to give support to nobel soldiers who've suffered terribly. I don't believe this means I'm supporting war in any way. Just because I support the consequences of war, does not mean I support the causes of these consequences. That's like a doctor supporting the attacker of the assault victim he's treating.
I am against the current wars, so I wear a red poppy in the spirit with which it was originally intended. Though obviously I have no problems with money being spent on recent veterans (just not in support of the war itself).
I don't give a badger's uncle if other people use the Poppy campaign to drum up support for current wars; it's them, not me, that's missing the point.
I don't give a badger's uncle if other people use the Poppy campaign to drum up support for current wars; it's them, not me, that's missing the point.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Djed
And therein lies the problem. The poppy is nowadays used as a tribute to the military and what it continues to do, instead of being used as what it was originally intended to be: a symbol of remembrance for the absurd and meaningless waste of life that war entails.
A recent letter to The Guardian, signed by several veterans, made the same point (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/05/poppies-and-heroes-remembrance-day):
"The Poppy Appeal is once again subverting Armistice Day. A day that should be about peace and remembrance is turned into a month-long drum roll of support for current wars. This year's campaign has been launched with showbiz hype. The true horror and futility of war is forgotten and ignored.
The public are being urged to wear a poppy in support of "our Heroes". There is nothing heroic about being blown up in a vehicle. There is nothing heroic about being shot in an ambush and there is nothing heroic about fighting in an unnecessary conflict.
Remembrance should be marked with the sentiment "Never Again"."
A recent letter to The Guardian, signed by several veterans, made the same point (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/05/poppies-and-heroes-remembrance-day):
"The Poppy Appeal is once again subverting Armistice Day. A day that should be about peace and remembrance is turned into a month-long drum roll of support for current wars. This year's campaign has been launched with showbiz hype. The true horror and futility of war is forgotten and ignored.
The public are being urged to wear a poppy in support of "our Heroes". There is nothing heroic about being blown up in a vehicle. There is nothing heroic about being shot in an ambush and there is nothing heroic about fighting in an unnecessary conflict.
Remembrance should be marked with the sentiment "Never Again"."
Couldn't have put it better myself.
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