This discussion is now closed.
Check out other Related discussions
- Going straight to Sandhurst from A level
- better uni or course for engineering?
- How much does uni reputation matter for STEM
- Clearing or Ucas Extra
- mistake picking the University of York over Warwick or Bath for Chemistry?
- Year 13s: What's the most important thing to you when comparing universities?
- Help choosing my offer (Medicine 2026 entry)
- Has anyone heard from Durham for finance
- Aberdeen vs Dundee vs Stirling for Law Degree
- How does college allocation work if I've applied for two courses at Durham?
- UCL or Southampton for engineering?
- Do Russel groups matter ?
- medical school and md working experience in singapore vs australia
- motivation for year 13
- graduate prospects - kcl or bath
- Durham college ranking algorithm
- NHS Scientist Training program 2023 (STP)
- UK University Rankings by prestige and employability
- Choosing your course - how to make a final decision and go ahead with applying!
- Choosing the best university
What is your rank when you are at Sandhurst?
Sorry if this is a really stupid question, I'm referring to this page:
http://www.army.mod.uk/servingsoldier/condofserv/mm/pay/ss_cos_mm_pay_rates_offr_w.html
and this page:
http://www.army.mod.uk/careers/army_life/what_is_an_officer.html#pay
but I just don't know what your rank is when you are at Sandhurst. You're not commissioned as an officer yet, right, so presuambly you're not any of the things on the first list....
I also found this:
Officer Cadet £13,476 pa
Second Lieutenant/
Graduate Officer Cadet £21,301 pa
Lieutenant
- on appointment £25,605 pa
- after one year £26,280 pa
(most graduates on leaving RMAS)
- after two years £26,952 pa
- after three years £27,623 pa
So that confused me. First I thought perhaps you are a Graduate Officer Cadet, presuming you enter Sandhurst as a graduate? Then, I thought, if the salary you're on upon leaving RMAS is that of 'Lieutenant after one year' then perhaps when you start (ie one year prior to that point) you are 'Lieutenant on appointment.'
I have not read this forum from start to finish but have done a search - apologies if the information is here somewhere. It's not me considering joining, I'm just wondering how much my husband would get paid if he joined.
Help!
http://www.army.mod.uk/servingsoldier/condofserv/mm/pay/ss_cos_mm_pay_rates_offr_w.html
and this page:
http://www.army.mod.uk/careers/army_life/what_is_an_officer.html#pay
but I just don't know what your rank is when you are at Sandhurst. You're not commissioned as an officer yet, right, so presuambly you're not any of the things on the first list....
I also found this:
Officer Cadet £13,476 pa
Second Lieutenant/
Graduate Officer Cadet £21,301 pa
Lieutenant
- on appointment £25,605 pa
- after one year £26,280 pa
(most graduates on leaving RMAS)
- after two years £26,952 pa
- after three years £27,623 pa
So that confused me. First I thought perhaps you are a Graduate Officer Cadet, presuming you enter Sandhurst as a graduate? Then, I thought, if the salary you're on upon leaving RMAS is that of 'Lieutenant after one year' then perhaps when you start (ie one year prior to that point) you are 'Lieutenant on appointment.'
I have not read this forum from start to finish but have done a search - apologies if the information is here somewhere. It's not me considering joining, I'm just wondering how much my husband would get paid if he joined.
Help!
Reply 1
I'm pretty sure you're an Officer Cadet, judging by what Prince Harry has been up to. I'm not expert though, so perhaps the best people to ask would be an AFCO or even talk to the people at the Army website. They usually have people there that can chat to you real time over the internet.
Reply 2
11
You're an officer cadet if you're not a graduate, and you're (unsurprisingly) paid as a graduate officer cadet if you're a graduate. In both cases, your rank is officer cadet; graduates just get paid the 2nd Lt salary as a "thank you" for getting a degree.
After graduation, graduates jump to the second pay point in the Lt payscale; however, your rank is still 2nd Lt on graduation no matter what.
The payscales are partially disassociated from rank, so you can in situations like these be paid as one thing while you're another. You'll find there's no distinct Lieutenant payscale to cover this; it's the "2nd Lt/Lt" payscale, and has various levels.
Therefore, "Lt after 1 year" is actually something like pay point 7 on the combined 2nd Lt/Lt payscales. You can be a 2nd Lt and just enter the payscale at point 7 rather than point 5 if you're a graduate.
Only non-graduate direct entrants will follow the scale from entry onwards.
After graduation, graduates jump to the second pay point in the Lt payscale; however, your rank is still 2nd Lt on graduation no matter what.
The payscales are partially disassociated from rank, so you can in situations like these be paid as one thing while you're another. You'll find there's no distinct Lieutenant payscale to cover this; it's the "2nd Lt/Lt" payscale, and has various levels.
Therefore, "Lt after 1 year" is actually something like pay point 7 on the combined 2nd Lt/Lt payscales. You can be a 2nd Lt and just enter the payscale at point 7 rather than point 5 if you're a graduate.
Only non-graduate direct entrants will follow the scale from entry onwards.
Reply 3
I don't know about the RAF, but I am applying now to the army (and I'm in the second year of my degree.) I will enter as a graduate officer cadet and get paid the higher wage because of it. My degree is totally unrelated, I started doing animal science, and know have decided its not what I am intrested in, but it still counts as a degree anyway. Again, don't know about the RAF but the army class doctors, lawyers, vets, dentists etc as 'professionally qualified' and they are on a different pay scale etc anyway. Hope this makes sense!!
Reply 4
During IOT, direct entrants NO degree get called Officer Cadet, whereas Graduate entrants are Student Officer and paid slightly more, and depending on the length of their degree, they may become a pilot officer or flying officer at Graduation. Some even become Flt Lts. Direct Entrants without a degree will graduate as APO, although some with previous service will be Fg Off's
Wzz or Elmlea will probs explain it better!
Wzz or Elmlea will probs explain it better!
Reply 5
11
"Graduate officer cadet" is not a rank. You'll be an officer cadet; you'll just be paid differently as a "thank you" for coming equipped with a degree as I said.
For the RAF, your rank is either officer cadet (if you don't have a degree) or student officer (if you do).
Officer cadets are paid as officer cadets: £36.92 per day. Upon graduation, they're commissioned as Acting Pilot Officers; £51.71 per day. Depending on branch, they spend a certain amount of time as an A/Plt Off before becoming a Plt Off; £58.36 per day. Generally, it's a year as an A/Plt Off and a year as a Plt Off. Then, you're a Fg Off, on £70.15 a day.
All of these pay rates are part of the combined Fg Off/Plt Off scale. Off Cdt is level 1, we don't use 2 or 3, A/Plt Off is level 4, Plt Off is level 5, Fg Off is level 6. After a year as a Fg Off, you move on to level 7; £72.00 per day.
After a set amount of time in Fg Off, you'll become a Flt Lt, and move to the Flt Lt payscales starting again at level 1; £89.89 per day. Again, on the anniversary of your promotion to Flt Lt, you'll move up a level.
Now, if you're a graduate, you technically count your commission from day 1 of IOT. On that day, you enter the Fg Off/Plt Off payscales at level 5; you're a Student Officer by rank, but you're being paid as a Plt Off.
On the old IOT, you graduated as a Plt Off, but 6 months after initial commissioning; ie a few days after the end of IOT; you become a Fg Off.
You didn't enter Fg Off at level 6 necessarily; depending on the exact type of degree you held, you may enter at a slightly higher pay point. When I went through, a masters degree got you 1 year less as a Fg Off, so you entered on level 8 while your mates went in on level 6. You did 18 months as a Fg Off with a masters, 30 months with a batchelors. Then you went to level 1 Flt Lt.
In branches like legal or engineering, experience can count for increased seniority (the term regarding how far up the payscale you are; ie a 3 year seniority Flt Lt will be on Flt Lt level 4) or accelerated promotion to Flt Lt. That's why it's possible for a chap with a MEng and 10 years working in industry to graduate as an engineering Flt Lt.
So there you are. Officer cadets start on level 1 of the Fg Off/Plt Off rates; level 4 after IOT; level 5 (with Plt Off rank) after a year; and up one level per year with promotions as required. After a certain amount of time (I think something like 3 years) as a Fg Off, they're off to Flt Lt level 1.
Student Officers start at level 5 (the Plt Off level; although they do not hold Plt Off rank yet); move to 6 (Fg Off; along with Fg Off rank) shortly after graduation, maybe higher depending on their degree; and do a fixed amount of time until Flt Lt level 1.
--------------
To answer Gemma; you'll be paid £21 301pa on entry. Your degree entitles you to be paid as a Plt Off. On the old IOT certainly, you'd have stayed on this for 6 months, then moved to £25 605pa as a Fg Off. You'd spend 30 months as a Fg Off before being promoted to Flt Lt on £32 810pa.
You'd go up one level per year to a level 9 cap of £39 019pa, with smaller increases thereafter, competing for promotion to Sqn Ldr.
For the RAF, your rank is either officer cadet (if you don't have a degree) or student officer (if you do).
Officer cadets are paid as officer cadets: £36.92 per day. Upon graduation, they're commissioned as Acting Pilot Officers; £51.71 per day. Depending on branch, they spend a certain amount of time as an A/Plt Off before becoming a Plt Off; £58.36 per day. Generally, it's a year as an A/Plt Off and a year as a Plt Off. Then, you're a Fg Off, on £70.15 a day.
All of these pay rates are part of the combined Fg Off/Plt Off scale. Off Cdt is level 1, we don't use 2 or 3, A/Plt Off is level 4, Plt Off is level 5, Fg Off is level 6. After a year as a Fg Off, you move on to level 7; £72.00 per day.
After a set amount of time in Fg Off, you'll become a Flt Lt, and move to the Flt Lt payscales starting again at level 1; £89.89 per day. Again, on the anniversary of your promotion to Flt Lt, you'll move up a level.
Now, if you're a graduate, you technically count your commission from day 1 of IOT. On that day, you enter the Fg Off/Plt Off payscales at level 5; you're a Student Officer by rank, but you're being paid as a Plt Off.
On the old IOT, you graduated as a Plt Off, but 6 months after initial commissioning; ie a few days after the end of IOT; you become a Fg Off.
You didn't enter Fg Off at level 6 necessarily; depending on the exact type of degree you held, you may enter at a slightly higher pay point. When I went through, a masters degree got you 1 year less as a Fg Off, so you entered on level 8 while your mates went in on level 6. You did 18 months as a Fg Off with a masters, 30 months with a batchelors. Then you went to level 1 Flt Lt.
In branches like legal or engineering, experience can count for increased seniority (the term regarding how far up the payscale you are; ie a 3 year seniority Flt Lt will be on Flt Lt level 4) or accelerated promotion to Flt Lt. That's why it's possible for a chap with a MEng and 10 years working in industry to graduate as an engineering Flt Lt.
So there you are. Officer cadets start on level 1 of the Fg Off/Plt Off rates; level 4 after IOT; level 5 (with Plt Off rank) after a year; and up one level per year with promotions as required. After a certain amount of time (I think something like 3 years) as a Fg Off, they're off to Flt Lt level 1.
Student Officers start at level 5 (the Plt Off level; although they do not hold Plt Off rank yet); move to 6 (Fg Off; along with Fg Off rank) shortly after graduation, maybe higher depending on their degree; and do a fixed amount of time until Flt Lt level 1.
--------------
To answer Gemma; you'll be paid £21 301pa on entry. Your degree entitles you to be paid as a Plt Off. On the old IOT certainly, you'd have stayed on this for 6 months, then moved to £25 605pa as a Fg Off. You'd spend 30 months as a Fg Off before being promoted to Flt Lt on £32 810pa.
You'd go up one level per year to a level 9 cap of £39 019pa, with smaller increases thereafter, competing for promotion to Sqn Ldr.
Reply 6
Wzz,
Good stuff, accurate and to the point. One element you forgot to mention was that of ex-serving personnel who are paid their current wage +5% during training, then get seniority awarded at graduation (normally half their previous service years in seniority terms). Also, any graduating officer at Fg Off rank could be posted into a Flt Lt wieghted post and attract substitution pay at Flt Lt rate from the outset (i.e. they're doing a Flt Lt's job, so they get Flt Lt pay: this obviously rarely applies to aircrew as they are holding or continuing on training). After a year in the sub slot, they can be awarded acting paid rank and wear Flt Lt slides. It's very strange if they move on to a FO only slot and lose the acting rank and pay though. Happening more and more these days with gaps in posting as a result of the redundancy programme and slower recruiting.
Good stuff, accurate and to the point. One element you forgot to mention was that of ex-serving personnel who are paid their current wage +5% during training, then get seniority awarded at graduation (normally half their previous service years in seniority terms). Also, any graduating officer at Fg Off rank could be posted into a Flt Lt wieghted post and attract substitution pay at Flt Lt rate from the outset (i.e. they're doing a Flt Lt's job, so they get Flt Lt pay: this obviously rarely applies to aircrew as they are holding or continuing on training). After a year in the sub slot, they can be awarded acting paid rank and wear Flt Lt slides. It's very strange if they move on to a FO only slot and lose the acting rank and pay though. Happening more and more these days with gaps in posting as a result of the redundancy programme and slower recruiting.
Reply 7
i know this page is linked to Sandhurst but there is so much info about the RAF.
I am a teacher of 10 years experience, degree and PGCE, could anyone look into their crystal ball and give me some idea of what to expect?
I start IOT in July 2006
Thanks
I am a teacher of 10 years experience, degree and PGCE, could anyone look into their crystal ball and give me some idea of what to expect?
I start IOT in July 2006
Thanks
Reply 8
11
Que?
Wzz,
Good stuff, accurate and to the point.
Good stuff, accurate and to the point.
Ta muchly.
Que?
One element you forgot to mention was that of ex-serving personnel who are paid their current wage +5% during training, then get seniority awarded at graduation (normally half their previous service years in seniority terms).
I was aware of that to an extent; I remember that the guys on my IOT had their +5%, and then had seniority calculated based on previous service; thanks for pointing out the "one half" rule. Presumably that's calculated differently than for officers; as my seniority is based on my time in rank? I'm assuming for airmen theirs is calculated from day one.
I seem to remember the ex-ranker guys on IOT received their +5% during IOT, then had their seniority calculated as they left. They then plugged into the appropriate rank's pay scale at the first pay point above their current salary (still +5%). If this was a Fg Off +8, and their seniority meant they were graduating as a Fg Off +4, then they'd remain on the +8 pay scale until their "actual" seniority caught up with their pay. They'd still get the annual increase, but no "in-rank" pay increases until then.
Does that make sense? I admit I didn't post it because I wasn't too sure if any ex-rankers read here, but thanks for tidying up.
Que?
Also, any graduating officer at Fg Off rank could be posted into a Flt Lt wieghted post
That surprises me a little; I suppose a lot of the posts I've come across (and filled occasionally!) were so-called "FOFL" posts in that they were suitable for Fg Off or Flt Lt. It never occurred that there could be some specific to Flt Lts.
A good mate is currently in a gapped aircrew Sqn Ldr post, and very much enjoying his substitution pay, so I know it happens.
All pilot applicants can discount all that, because you'll just be spending your time training wishing the OCU was nearer so you could get flying pay
Reply 9
Wzz
I seem to remember the ex-ranker guys on IOT received their +5% during IOT, then had their seniority calculated as they left. They then plugged into the appropriate rank's pay scale at the first pay point above their current salary (still +5%). If this was a Fg Off +8, and their seniority meant they were graduating as a Fg Off +4, then they'd remain on the +8 pay scale until their "actual" seniority caught up with their pay. They'd still get the annual increase, but no "in-rank" pay increases until then.
Does that make sense? I admit I didn't post it because I wasn't too sure if any ex-rankers read here, but thanks for tidying up.
I seem to remember the ex-ranker guys on IOT received their +5% during IOT, then had their seniority calculated as they left. They then plugged into the appropriate rank's pay scale at the first pay point above their current salary (still +5%). If this was a Fg Off +8, and their seniority meant they were graduating as a Fg Off +4, then they'd remain on the +8 pay scale until their "actual" seniority caught up with their pay. They'd still get the annual increase, but no "in-rank" pay increases until then.
Does that make sense? I admit I didn't post it because I wasn't too sure if any ex-rankers read here, but thanks for tidying up.
I had a chat with Innsworth the other day. Apparently the 5% is now 2%, and any degree earned whilst serving doesn't count towards accellerated promotion - all ex rankers join as Officer Cadets, graduate as Fg Off and get Flt Lt 2 yrs after graduation.
Mark time pay last for 2 years, and then you go onto the next level on pay scale (rounded up with a furthwr 2% increase).
Reply 10
REME-Bod
I had a chat with Innsworth the other day. Apparently the 5% is now 2%, and any degree earned whilst serving doesn't count towards accellerated promotion - all ex rankers join as Officer Cadets, graduate as Fg Off and get Flt Lt 2 yrs after graduation.
Mark time pay last for 2 years, and then you go onto the next level on pay scale (rounded up with a furthwr 2% increase).
Mark time pay last for 2 years, and then you go onto the next level on pay scale (rounded up with a furthwr 2% increase).
That the same for Cross service ?
Reply 11
Scorg
That the same for Cross service ?
Especially for cross service, apart from the fact that I'll be paid by Army throughout IOT, and then my 2 years mark time pay starts after graduation. If I haven't attained a rank that justifies that pay within 2 yrs I take a pay cut to the highest level of the rank I'm in.
I think that makes sense... it does in my head!
Reply 12
REME-Bod
Especially for cross service, apart from the fact that I'll be paid by Army throughout IOT, and then my 2 years mark time pay starts after graduation. If I haven't attained a rank that justifies that pay within 2 yrs I take a pay cut to the highest level of the rank I'm in.
I think that makes sense... it does in my head!
I think that makes sense... it does in my head!
will take me a couple of minutes, but I think it does make sence!
So, at IOT, your on Basic Cadet wages, while maintaining your Pay Grade from the army. But the 2 years mark time I dont understand, It like an equivelency of back dated pay rate?
Reply 13
Scorg
will take me a couple of minutes, but I think it does make sence!
So, at IOT, your on Basic Cadet wages, while maintaining your Pay Grade from the army. But the 2 years mark time I dont understand, It like an equivelency of back dated pay rate?
So, at IOT, your on Basic Cadet wages, while maintaining your Pay Grade from the army. But the 2 years mark time I dont understand, It like an equivelency of back dated pay rate?
No, it's as Wzz and Que? said. If I go in and am being paid more than the rank warrants, then I don't get a pay rise until the pay scales catch up, or I get promoted to next higher pay scale. The period without a pay rise is the mark-time period.
Reply 14
REME-Bod
No, it's as Wzz and Que? said. If I go in and am being paid more than the rank warrants, then I don't get a pay rise until the pay scales catch up, or I get promoted to next higher pay scale. The period without a pay rise is the mark-time period.
Ahh, thanks, thats all cleared up now.
Similer thing happened to my Signals mate, he got put up the pay structure very quickly at the start of his career that he never receaved any pay rises for about 4 years.
Related discussions
- Going straight to Sandhurst from A level
- better uni or course for engineering?
- How much does uni reputation matter for STEM
- Clearing or Ucas Extra
- mistake picking the University of York over Warwick or Bath for Chemistry?
- Year 13s: What's the most important thing to you when comparing universities?
- Help choosing my offer (Medicine 2026 entry)
- Has anyone heard from Durham for finance
- Aberdeen vs Dundee vs Stirling for Law Degree
- How does college allocation work if I've applied for two courses at Durham?
- UCL or Southampton for engineering?
- Do Russel groups matter ?
- medical school and md working experience in singapore vs australia
- motivation for year 13
- graduate prospects - kcl or bath
- Durham college ranking algorithm
- NHS Scientist Training program 2023 (STP)
- UK University Rankings by prestige and employability
- Choosing your course - how to make a final decision and go ahead with applying!
- Choosing the best university
Latest
Trending
Last reply 8 months ago
I want to become an Air Traffic Controller what should I do to prepare?
How The Student Room is moderated
To keep The Student Room safe for everyone, we moderate posts that are added to the site.
