Scoliosis surgery..

To all the people here who had scoliosis, will you tell me more about your symptoms? I would love to know every details. Thanks.

PS: OP sorry for hijacking the thread. But to answer you question, i've never had any of those but im pretty sure i have back problems now and i havent gone to the doctor yet even though its been bothering me for years. Anyways, get well after your surgery and good luck. :smile:

Reply 6

Blossom18

Original post by Anonymous

I'm sixteen and suffer from scoliosis. I discovered I had scoliosis two months ago, I always knew something was wrong with my body but stupidly I let it pass. I had two x rays already and my GP showed me the results and curvature of my first x ray a month ago (I totally forgot the degrees of my spine) :frown:

but I think it's quite bad. All I know is that my spine is S shaped and I am too old to wear the bracing. I have a appointment in a hospital in Stanmore soon to discuss my options, I'm guessing the only option is surgery..

I hate having scoliosis, it causes me terrible back pain and I just want to be and look normal but at the same time, I'm terrified if I do have to go through surgery!

Does anyone know the cost of the surgery of is it free? (Doubt it) and also has anyone on TSR had scoliosis and had the surgery or know someone who had it done? If yes, please tell me your or their story. Thanks.

Hi there

My mum had Scoliosis when she was a toddler, she had a spinal fusion at the age of 11 after living with scoliosis for around 6 years...

before the operation she was the first to wear the Milwaukee jacket...which i think they have scrapped now anyway.. it did nothing at all and was on her for 2 years.. preventing her from doing all sorts. so it isn't something recommend

i would certainly have the operation if i was you.. if not it can develop and become far worse.. also (without scaring you) can crush your internal organs as your ribs become crushed together.. if that makes sense... today in many spinal fusions ribs are taken out to create room, however this didnt happen many years ago when mum had hers and she is going to have to have a separate op (put on hold atm due to breast cancer) to remove 2 of her ribs which are causing respiratory problems.... i would therefore ask about this when you see your consultant...

Stanmore is an orthopaedic hospital - it has an excellent reputation... and the operation will be covered on the NHS if you are a British Citizen.

My mum was lay on her back for 16 weeks after her operation.. but she coped... now a days you can be up and around within 2 weeks of surgery and back to an almost normal life...

Mum still suffers with slight back pain, however this is nothing to the pain she was in before the operation... there are a number of ways to help cope with the pain as well...

Surgery may seem scary but it isnt to bad :smile:

xxxxx

Reply 7

Original post by + polarity -

Erm... well the twisted spine is a bit of a giveaway :tongue:

but I think some of the other things my doctors noticed was hip unevenness.

Erm, I have limited lung capacity (about half of what it should be for my age, apparently)

Oh, and shortness. :colonhash:

Thanks, but how was the pain? Do you get pain all the time, like does it stop or is it continuous?

Reply 8

SamTheMan

17

What is your curvature and at the level of which vertebrae? You have to distinguish between the rare severe congenital form of scoliosis that if not operated on, actually threatens the life of the patient and idiopathic scoliosis which a lot of people actually have, simply because we're not 100% symmetric as much as we'd like to.

If you have congenital scolosis then you usually have to be operated on very quickly and at an early age.

For the idiopathic form, it's more about your preference, the curvature, how it is progressing (or not), your level of activity.

There's a huge number of people with slight curvatures (I am one of them) and who never need to be operated on. I did years of physio and osteopathy but I'm now a competitive athlete and apart from my back giving me more grief than the usual athlete I'm fine.
Physiotherapy in this country will tend to look at strengthening the surrounding muscles of your back (if your spine "collapses" to one side, that side is weak) and stretching the side where the muscles are overworked. It works but it's unlikely to really reverse your curvature (mine did a bit over those years to the point that one surgeon recently said that the curvature was so small that it shouldn't be classified as scoliosis, which I disagree with as I'm fully aware of the muscle imbalance and MRI/XRays do still show the curve).

There is a German method created by a woman called Scroth that is supposed to have fixed the curvatures in a number of scoliosis patients and is supposed to be a lot more effective than the typical conservative approach that I described above http://www.schrothmethod.com/

Unfortunately, in the UK there aren't many places with practitioners who know how to teach the method. However, the closest you can get is a place called Scoliosis SOS in London. http://www.scoliosissos.com/

I don't know your current situation but if you can free up 4 weeks in your holidays, take time of work/studies and go to one of the courses, I think you'd benefit massively. Otherwise standard physiotherapy will definitely help.

My advice would be to focus on some physio, take up Yoga or Pilates (I'd recommend Iyengar Yoga which is less "full-on" and is suitable for less mobile people). The trouble is that you have probably spent years not focusing on your body and not understanding how it works.

Also, if you are reading this in a desk chair, throw the desk chair that is causing you to slouch away and get a chair that encourages good posture: there are kneeling chairs and loads of other kinds if you look them up.

I reckon that this sudden news of finding out that your spine is not healthy has got you worried and you're thinking the worst (i.e. surgery) but I really doubt that your case requires surgery if you have only found out now. Severe scoliosis is usually discovered at a young age. I'd say focus on the physio and the yoga/pilates which will make your spine fitter and healthier and improve your well-being and see in a year or two where the curvature is. That doesn't rule out the possibility of surgery but think about it: what's the point of surgery if your posture is still rubbish, your core muscles are weak and your awareness of your body and spine is non-existent? Your curvature may still progress after the operation anyway (as you have the idiopathic form).

Feel free to get in touch if you have any questions about physio/yoga/sports or want some good tips for stretching.

Anonymous

(I totally forgot the degrees of my spine)

It's important that you find this info. I'm not a medical expert but I'd say anything below 45 degrees is not worth operating on right away and physio (and yoga) is definitely what you should be focusing on right now. Assuming that you are in your late teens, the curvature will NOT progress as scoliosis only really progresses at two stages in life: during growth and old age.

I'd also have to look this up but if I recall 45 degrees was the limit for scoliosis to be recognised as an actual "disability" that can get you out of the military service of certain countries.

Edit: I may have got the numbers slightly wrong. In the case of the US military (so not the military service that I was thinking of), they allow up to 30 degrees for thoracic scolisis and 20 degrees for lumbar scoliosis but it still shows that a slight curvature is seen as non-debilitating.

(edited 14 years ago)

Reply 9

Original post by + polarity -

I only get pain when I sit down for a long time, e.g. in the car :colondollar:

It's possible that I should be feeling pain, but am not, as my nervous system is a bit of a mess tbh

Rate the pain from 1-10.

Reply 10

SamTheMan

17

Original post by kristinaalovesu

To all the people here who had scoliosis, will you tell me more about your symptoms?

I started doing a lot of athletics and sports towards the end of high school. I had always been told that I had bad posture but people used to put it down to the "mopey teenager" look... My back would give me grief and after a large training session my back would suddenly seize up. Once I pulled my back muscles and jammed my back completely. At 15, I was walking around like an 80-year old for almost a day.

I went to see my GP who told me to bend forward and touch my toes. By looking at the level of each side of my lumbar area, he could see one side slightly higher (which is actually the weak side). An X Ray confirmed a moderate curvature between the L1 and L5 vertebrae in my spine.

There are 100s of forms of scoliosis and claims that you must be operated because "I know someone who had scoliosis and they were operated" are WRONG. Someone with a curvature of 20 to 30 degrees will not be operated on. That's a total waste of time even if a crazy surgeon did agree on the operation. The operation does not remove all the curvature and usually after the operation, the scoliosis can actually progress as the conditions that allowed the scoliosis to develop are still there anyway: muscle imbalance, weak core muscles, bad posture, poor body-awareness...

What some people are thinking of is the congenital form of scoliosis where the curvature can reach 70-80 degrees and is usually discovered in toddlers and quickly operated on as a birth defect. The idiopathic form that appears in teenage years is totally different.

The idiopathic form (called that way because there is no obvious cause) is a bit of a mystery even if you ask back surgeons, physios, osteopaths. They all have their theories: an accident when you were young, a leg 2mm shorter than the other etc.

My back problems did appear a few years after having dental braces which hurt my jaw like hell even after they were taken out. A small muscular or skeletal imbalance propagates through the body. To compensate for an overworked jaw, one side of your neck works harder. To compensate for this, one shoulder works harder than the other and so on... I wouldn't be that surprised if that is what triggered the start of the scoliosis.

It's also been noted that people with scoliosis tend to be of a nervous predisposition. Weak core muscles also allow the scoliosis to develop quickly, which is why you usually see skinnier people with scoliosis.

(edited 14 years ago)

Reply 11

Original post by + polarity -

Oh, it's quite a dull pain, so I'd say 3 out of 10.

It's nothing like hammering a nail through your hand or cutting your bum with a strimmer (little Balls of Steel reference :tongue:

) but it is annoying.

Thank you. Yeah, i have a dull pain but it just appeared 2-3 yrs ago. It's weird, i have a very good posture but i dont know whats wrong with my back.
Anyways, thanks again.

Original post by SamTheMan

I started doing a lot of athletics and sports towards the end of high school. I had always been told that I had bad posture but people used to put it down to the "mopey teenager" look... My back would give me grief and after a large training session my back would suddenly seize up. Once I pulled my back muscles and jammed my back completely. At 15, I was walking around like an 80-year old for almost a day.

I went to see my GP who told me to bend forward and touch my toes. By looking at the level of each side of my lumbar area, he could see one side slightly higher (which is actually the weak side). An X Ray confirmed a moderate curvature between the L1 and L5 vertebrae in my spine.

There are 100s of forms of scoliosis and claims that you must be operated because "I know someone who had scoliosis and they were operated" are WRONG. Someone with a curvature of 20 to 30 degrees will not be operated on. That's a total waste of time even if a crazy surgeon did agree on the operation. The operation does not remove all the curvature and usually after the operation, the scoliosis can actually progress as the conditions that allowed the scoliosis to develop are still there anyway: muscle imbalance, weak core muscles, bad posture, poor body-awareness...

What some people are thinking of is the congenital form of scoliosis where the curvature can reach 70-80 degrees and is usually discovered in toddlers and quickly operated on as a birth defect. The idiopathic form that appears in teenage years is totally different.

The idiopathic form (called that way because there is no obvious cause) is a bit of a mystery even if you ask back surgeons, physios, osteopaths. They all have their theories: an accident when you were young, a leg 2mm shorter than the other etc.

My back problems did appear a few years after having dental braces which hurt my jaw like hell even after they were taken out. A small muscular or skeletal imbalance propagates through the body. To compensate for an overworked jaw, one side of your neck works harder. To compensate for this, one shoulder works harder than the other and so on... I wouldn't be that surprised if that is what triggered the start of the scoliosis.

It's also been noted that people with scoliosis tend to be of a nervous predisposition. Weak core muscles also allow the scoliosis to develop quickly, which is why you usually see skinnier people with scoliosis.

So you got your scoliosis after you got your braces off and when you pulled your back muscles.
Did you have any leg pain?

Reply 12

Interesting stuff about weak core muscles and nervous disposition. Interestingly in this context when my curve doubled in size during that time period I started getting really terrible troubles with anxiety even though at the time I was unaware that my back was getting worse. I only found out at the end of the year that the curve had worsened.

OP just think carefully before your meeting with the expert and come up with a list of all the questions you have. Take it with you and ask him all those questions. Its also worth getting a second opinion if possible, some consultants will be more pro surgery and some will be less. There are a lot of unknowns with scoliosis so be aware of that.

If your curve is less than 40 though I don't think surgery would be a good idea. If the operation goes wrong, which although it rarely does it still happens, the consequences are awful. In my operation the surgeon started to trying to wake me up during the op because my legs weren't responding, fortunately after a while they did, but it was obviously very worrying for the surgeon and just goes to show that things can go wrong. [But only very rarely so dont worry if you do have to have an op.]

Basically just read what samtheman put because its all correct.

Reply 13

Original post by kristinaalovesu

Thank you. Yeah, i have a dull pain but it just appeared 2-3 yrs ago. It's weird, i have a very good posture but i dont know whats wrong with my back.
Anyways, thanks again.

So you got your scoliosis after you got your braces off and when you pulled your back muscles.
Did you have any leg pain?

Theres a good test for scoliosis. Take your top off and get a family member to stand behind you looking at your back. Bend forward as much as possible, if you have scoliosis your back will probably be unbalanced. One side will be higher than the other. You cannot see this as clearly when you take your normal posture. So definitely do this test if you think you might have it.

Reply 14

SamTheMan

17

Original post by kristinaalovesu

So you got your scoliosis after you got your braces off and when you pulled your back muscles.
Did you have any leg pain?

Who knows, before, during, after... it's not obvious to know when and how scoliosis develops. I definitely had the scoliosis or was starting to develop it (without realising) when I pulled my back. I had always had a weak upper body (and by extension core muscles) but with strong legs in a disproportionate way so that for a lot of sports, the power I was applying with my legs couldn't be sustained by the upper body.

My jarring my back was probably my back muscles and core muscles not knowing how to cope with the heavy training and I ended up using all the wrong muscles.

What makes you think you have scoliosis? If you want to see if you might have it, look at yourself in a mirror and stand up straight but naturally. Where are your hips? Are they level? Does your waist look symmetrical i.e. do you have one side that might be curved in a bit more? Now how about the ribs (this is usually where it becomes obvious)? Do the ribs stick out in the same way?

Other tell-tale signs: when you sit in a hard chair with a back rest. Do both sides of your back touch the back rest in the same way? How about when you lie on your back on the floor?

If you can have someone look at you (until it can be confirmed by a GP), ask them to examine your back in the same way as I described examining your front. You can bend forward to touch your toes and ask them to look at the muscles on both sides. They can also run their finger along your spine and if you have any significant form of scoliosis it will be plain obvious.

As for leg pain, all forms of lumbar back pain radiate into the leg. Leg pain is definitely not a tell-tale sign of scoliosis.

DJJJ

Interesting stuff about weak core muscles and nervous disposition. Interestingly in this context when my curve doubled in size during that time period I started getting really terrible troubles with anxiety even though at the time I was unaware that my back was getting worse. I only found out at the end of the year that the curve had worsened.

What curvature did you end up with?

Despite not having much of a curvature because I do a lot of sports, my back gives me a fair bit of grief so I've seen countless numbers of specialists, all with their different ideas and theories. It's well known that strong core muscles are needed for a healthy spine but whether weak core muscles can be the cause of the scoliosis, I'm not sure. The nervous predisposition of certain people prevents them from standing up straight and they're not "comfortable" in more than one sense.

I also agree with the figure of 40 degrees. Anything around that figure is not a cause for alarm.

(edited 14 years ago)

Reply 15

Original post by SamTheMan

Who knows, before, during, after... it's not obvious to know when and how scoliosis develops. I definitely had the scoliosis or was starting to develop it (without realising) when I pulled my back. I had always had a weak upper body (and by extension core muscles) but with strong legs in a disproportionate way so that for a lot of sports, the power I was applying with my legs couldn't be sustained by the upper body.

My jarring my back was probably my back muscles and core muscles not knowing how to cope with the heavy training and I ended up using all the wrong muscles.

What makes you think you have scoliosis? If you want to see if you might have it, look at yourself in a mirror and stand up straight but naturally. Where are your hips? Are they level? Does your waist look symmetrical i.e. do you have one side that might be curved in a bit more? Now how about the ribs (this is usually where it becomes obvious)? Do the ribs stick out in the same way?

Other tell-tale signs: when you sit in a hard chair with a back rest. Do both sides of your back touch the back rest in the same way? How about when you lie on your back on the floor?

If you can have someone look at you (until it can be confirmed by a GP), ask them to examine your back in the same way as I described examining your front. You can bend forward to touch your toes and ask them to look at the muscles on both sides. They can also run their finger along your spine and if you have any significant form of scoliosis it will be plain obvious.

As for leg pain, all forms of lumbar back pain radiate into the leg. Leg pain is definitely not a tell-tale sign of scoliosis.

What curvature did you end up with?

Despite not having much of a curvature because I do a lot of sports, my back gives me a fair bit of grief so I've seen countless numbers of specialists, all with their different ideas and theories. It's well known that strong core muscles are needed for a healthy spine but whether weak core muscles can be the cause of the scoliosis, I'm not sure. The nervous predisposition of certain people prevents them from standing up straight and they're not "comfortable" in more than one sense.

I also agree with the figure of 40 degrees. Anything around that figure is not a cause for alarm.

Curvature I ended up with was around 20 degrees I believe, certainly straight enough that it was of no significant influence.

I did actually read in the past that there is a higher percentage of mental problems particularly anxiety in people with scoliosis.
I think it may be linked to the effects on breathing that can happen particularly from bracing.

I can sympathize in regards to sports. I played golf which relies almost entirely on the spine and back for the full swing, most times I would step onto the first tee in mild pain by the time I got to the final four or five holes it was close to unbearable. Made sure opponent was never aware of it but it gives them a significant competitive advantage none the less.

Reply 16

Original post by SamTheMan

Who knows, before, during, after... it's not obvious to know when and how scoliosis develops. I definitely had the scoliosis or was starting to develop it (without realising) when I pulled my back. I had always had a weak upper body (and by extension core muscles) but with strong legs in a disproportionate way so that for a lot of sports, the power I was applying with my legs couldn't be sustained by the upper body.

My jarring my back was probably my back muscles and core muscles not knowing how to cope with the heavy training and I ended up using all the wrong muscles.

What makes you think you have scoliosis? If you want to see if you might have it, look at yourself in a mirror and stand up straight but naturally. Where are your hips? Are they level? Does your waist look symmetrical i.e. do you have one side that might be curved in a bit more? Now how about the ribs (this is usually where it becomes obvious)? Do the ribs stick out in the same way?

Other tell-tale signs: when you sit in a hard chair with a back rest. Do both sides of your back touch the back rest in the same way? How about when you lie on your back on the floor?

If you can have someone look at you (until it can be confirmed by a GP), ask them to examine your back in the same way as I described examining your front. You can bend forward to touch your toes and ask them to look at the muscles on both sides. They can also run their finger along your spine and if you have any significant form of scoliosis it will be plain obvious.

As for leg pain, all forms of lumbar back pain radiate into the leg. Leg pain is definitely not a tell-tale sign of scoliosis.

I just think i may have scoliosis because i've been having this dull pain in my back for quite a long time.
People always say i have a good posture though. And before i didn't have this back pain, it became worse when i started doing some heavy lifting. When i lay my back on the floor its fine, like my upper back is touching the floor and my upper buttocks but the middle part of my back doesn't completely touch the floor. Only a bit of it.
And when im sitting on a chair, i keep changing positions every 10 minutes because it gets uncomfortable. Its a dull pain and i get leg pain recently on my left leg. It could be sciatica but im not sure. Which is why im doing research about it before i go to the doctor.

Reply 17