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pkonline
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#61
Report 16 years ago
#61
(Original post by Howard)
Oh, sorry. I must have confused you with one of the "tax solves all brigade"

Actually though, what you describe above I'd say was a "good workable conservative policy" rather than a "socialist" one.

"Pro fees" must surely mean you are in favor of personal responsibility, where possible, for financing one's education. Doesn't sound very socialist to me.

Grants and bursaries? Oh, you mean like the one's the Tories have had for decades.
Well my view is from the fact that unis need funding therefore the richer should pay up to support themselves and the poorer

Yes grants and bursaries, but available to everyone who needs it. Access is the main issue which the Tories have been shown, for decades, to neglect. They may have given grants and benefits to ppl, but prob to the wrong types.

The words 'good' and 'workable' can be associated with conservative policy but rarely Tory policy lol
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PQ
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#62
Report 16 years ago
#62
(Original post by serendipity)
Actually, Blair is planning to tax graduates at an extortionate rate of 41% once they earn over £15,000 a year. That's a higher tax rate than those on £100,000 a year. Fair?
Sorry to keep repeating this people but it obviously isn't sinking in...


(Original post by Pencil Queen)
I've corrected this little piece of propagana* elsewhere on the site but it hasn't appeared to sink in.

The tuition fee/student loan repayment is NOT 9% of total earnings - it's 9% of total earning minus £15k.

So for someone earning £20k it works out at 2.25% of their overall income - not 9%.

For someone on £16k it's only 0.5625% of their total earnings.

For someone on £30k its 4.5% of their total income.

Plus just because you are in the 22% income tax bracket doesn't mean you pay 22% of your earnings in tax.

Someone on £16k would pay nothing on the first £4615 earned, 10% income tax on the next ~£2 and 22% on the remainder which works out at an overall income tax rate of 15% (of course this is thanks to the labour government who introduced the 10% bracket lowering *everyones* taxes previously it went direct from 0 tax to 22%).

The same applies to NI with a £4000 exempt band.

So for someon on £16k that's:
15% income tax
8% NI contributions
0.6% tuition fee/student loan repayment

23.6% overall - not 41% or anything like it.


*note just because I call it propaganda doesn't mean I'm accusing you of knowingly spreading it - just accepting something that has been said as fact without checking up on the facts yourself, and with tax calculations that's perfectly understandable.
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serendipity
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#63
Report 16 years ago
#63
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
Sorry to keep repeating this people but it obviously isn't sinking in...
On newsnight last night a student brought up the subject of the 41% tax rate - and Blair didn't correct him. This includes council tax, btw.
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PQ
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#64
Report 16 years ago
#64
(Original post by serendipity)
On newsnight last night a student brought up the subject of the 41% tax rate - and Blair didn't correct him. This includes council tax, btw.
I don't blame blair for not correcting him - I've posted this breakdown of the taxes on someone earning £16k after graduation 3 times and it still got ignored.

And council tax is rediculous, you cannot predict the council tax someone will be paying it varies not just on where they live but hat house they live in who they live how many people they live with with and even on medical conditions.

Someone living on their own is likely to have to pay £1000, someone living in a shared house is likely to pay 1/4 or 1/5 of that sum. £200 = another 1.25% tax, £250 = 1.6% tax....even the full whack paid by someone living alone in a £100,000 house is only another 6.25% tax...making the maximum grand total less than 30% tax.

But what the hell let's twist the figures more and add on 17.5% VAT (because millionaires don't pay that :rolleyes: )
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hitchhiker_13
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#65
Report 16 years ago
#65
I haven't completely made up my mind about top-up fees yet. I think that maybe in a perfect world, we shouldn't have them, but as it's not and universities need the money, it has to be done. And I'd certainly rather build up a little debt and pay it back later, rather than have to hand it over at the start or all at once, as long as the salary at which you start to pay it back is reasonable.

My main problem is the variable top-up fees. I think it should be a universal rate for all degrees in all universities, and which university you get into depends solely on your ability, because plenty of people will be put off by higher fees at the more presigious universities, and will go for degrees that are cheaper, but might not be what they want.

Also, it's all very well telling poorer students they'll get grants, or that they will be able to pay it back later, when they are earning a lot more money, but I think they'll take some serious persuading. £3000 a year, plus accommodation etc. sounds like so much money that they will be unwilling to enter that kind of debt,I know it sounds very daunting to me. So the government has to make sure that everyone is properly educated and reassured about this so some of the brighest pupils aren't put off.
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