This discussion is now closed.
Check out other Related discussions
- Help with History Nea Coursework
- OCR A level History
- Edexcel A Level History Paper 2: Depth Study 9HI0 2A-2H - 10 Jun 2022 [Exam Chat]
- AQA History NEA
- aqa gcse english lit macbeth
- Edexcel GCSE English Literature Paper 1 (1ET0 01) - 13th May 2024 [Exam Chat]
- Can anyone mark this english lit essay? AQA mark scheme
- Scholarship UCL application
- Do you think this covers most possible questions for Macbeth? (eduqas)
- Macbethh
- gcse aqa urgent please help
- my eng literature notes (grade 7/8) (gsce 2022)
- Best TV show to watch?
- How do I get an A* in my History Coursework?
- Predictions for English Literature 2023 Edexcel
- Who's your favourite historical figure?
- Nobody cares about 'changing' the world
- Official Canterbury Christ Church University 2023 Applicant Thread
- My south Asian best friend is racist to white people
- Resit Y13 at sixth form or resit as a private candidate at another college?
Was Malcolm X a racist ?
Scroll to see replies
Original post by D.R.E
Malcolm X used to be one of my 'inspirations' in life until I actually sat down to read his speeches and his autobiography.
He was very arrogant, self-absorbed and most definitely was racist.
He was very arrogant, self-absorbed and most definitely was racist.
The man changed his ways, give him a break jeez
Malcolm X left the Nation of Islam after seeing they were not compatible with islam at all. So you can't put much blame on him
Original post by Warrior King
Do you actually know anything about Malcolm X? If you did you'd know he wasn't a racist and that his views were influenced by the NOI and in any case he abandoned those views once he left the NOI. Or do the sources you read from not go that far?
So basically in your eyes Churchill, Powell and Thatcher were prats? Sums up the Conservatives really; racist old farts who belong in the dark ages and only got into power because Gordon Brown effed up big time. You can scrub your nails but we can still see the dirt.
So basically in your eyes Churchill, Powell and Thatcher were prats? Sums up the Conservatives really; racist old farts who belong in the dark ages and only got into power because Gordon Brown effed up big time. You can scrub your nails but we can still see the dirt.
..
(edited 13 years ago)
It would seem that not many people here understand the concept of people changing their ways or redemption and that "mud sticks".
I seem to have suffered a backlash of neg rep for my Churchill comments but at the same time had loads of positive hits for the Malcolm X comments. Thanks to those who gave me positive rep.
To the Malcolm X bashers who support Churchill:
You accuse Malcolm X of being racist because of views he held during his membership of the NOI which anyone who's bothered to research the topic will know that his views were blinded by the NOI's extreme teachings and especially that of Elijah Muhammad whom Malcolm X at one time revered as if he were his own Father.
The NOIs/Malcolm X's views on white people went only as far as condeming them as "white devils" and directing anger towards them for the abuse they had suffered for hundreds of years. Their anger stemmed for the fact that whilst almost 200 years prior to that slaverly had been abolished and black people had been in American for perhaps 3, 4 or even 5 generations, they were still very much being treated as second, no wait, third-class citizens by their white peers for no other reason than their skin colour. I won't go into the details of all that because you'll find that in any respectable history book on post- civil war America and you'd have to be completely blinded by ignorance not to know of the issues the black man faced in America at that time.
So if he was racist, it was due to the opression he and has people were being dealt. Agreed, not all the white men he was talking about were devils but when the majority he/they had encountered were those who'd opress them, would they want to give the time of day to an entire group?
Also unlike the white-supremacist groups like KKK or here in the UK the NF, Combat 18 and now the EDL, Malcolm X and the NOI were never associated with any public disturbances or acts of violence towards white people. Neither did their views make derogatory claims about how inferior one race was to the other.
On the other hand folks, Churchill famously made derogatory remarks about Indians, Kurds and Africans. This wasn't because Africans or Kurds had taken away Churchill's right to vote or forced him to sit at the back of the bus. Churchill whilst a man of his generation which was a very much racist generation, had travelled extensively throughout his time and been exposed to various cultures but yet still held those opinions. Whilst Malcolm X may have made comments that could have been viewed as racist, it is important to note that he did apologise for this and sought to redeem his ways.
By my recollection of reading history books etc., I don't remember once "the great" Winston Churchill ever apologising about the racist remarks he made about Islam, Indians, Kurds or Africans. Churchill had no reason to be racist, it was just his nature.
Now people keep spouting on this BS about how his racist views were "acceptable because that was the norm in the 19th century" which is totally rubbish. There were many well known figures just before and immediately after Churchill's time who didn't hold such views and as I keep saying, if people at a certain point of time weren't prepared to accept that their views were wrong and that racism was wrong, we'd be very much stuck in Churchill mindset and we'd never have advanced as a society.
In a previous thread on Churchill I gave the examples of JFK and his brother Bobby Kennedy both of whom were prominent in their support of civil rights and famously grew up in a wealthy background with very little if any exposure to black people as was the norm at their time. However their views on race were based on common sense, progression and compassion and rightly so this is why these figures are revered.
I am not for one moment saying we shouldn't revere Churchill. I respect his achievements as a wartime PM and if it wasn't for his quick-thinking intervention and his somewhat rousing speeches during one Britain's darkest hours, the UK would have been a very different place and the course of history may well have been different. So yes Churchill should always be remembered and respected for that. However I do not respect him as a man and certainly do not view him as a hero. As a Brit with Indian heritage do you honestly think I am going to admire a man who passionately hated my ethnic group?
Without sounding un-PC it would seem those attacking Malcolm X for his "anti-white comments" may themselves be white. Frankly I can understand that labelling him as a racist is your means of a knee-jerk reaction. You have to appreciate that in a similar fashion there are going to be many British-Asians, British-Africans etc who won't be so fond of Churchill. Learn to respect that.
However you can't knock Malcolm X for being "racist" when his views were that of a brainwashed individual who later sought forgiveness and redemption and then support Winston Churchill as a morally upstanding character when he was an open and unrepetentant racist. Malcolm X gave hope to those seeking Civil Right and it was he who perhaps first coined the expression "African-American" and "Black is Beautiful" and that wasn't to make out that the black race was superiour to the white race, it was just that a race of people who for so long had been made to feel like the trash of society should be proud of who they are.
To be honest I shouldn't have to explain all this to people who would dub themselves as wannabe MPs, Oxbridge material etc. Everything I've said is well documented in texts on the relevant subjects. Go read them before making bold and rash statements.
I seem to have suffered a backlash of neg rep for my Churchill comments but at the same time had loads of positive hits for the Malcolm X comments. Thanks to those who gave me positive rep.
To the Malcolm X bashers who support Churchill:
You accuse Malcolm X of being racist because of views he held during his membership of the NOI which anyone who's bothered to research the topic will know that his views were blinded by the NOI's extreme teachings and especially that of Elijah Muhammad whom Malcolm X at one time revered as if he were his own Father.
The NOIs/Malcolm X's views on white people went only as far as condeming them as "white devils" and directing anger towards them for the abuse they had suffered for hundreds of years. Their anger stemmed for the fact that whilst almost 200 years prior to that slaverly had been abolished and black people had been in American for perhaps 3, 4 or even 5 generations, they were still very much being treated as second, no wait, third-class citizens by their white peers for no other reason than their skin colour. I won't go into the details of all that because you'll find that in any respectable history book on post- civil war America and you'd have to be completely blinded by ignorance not to know of the issues the black man faced in America at that time.
So if he was racist, it was due to the opression he and has people were being dealt. Agreed, not all the white men he was talking about were devils but when the majority he/they had encountered were those who'd opress them, would they want to give the time of day to an entire group?
Also unlike the white-supremacist groups like KKK or here in the UK the NF, Combat 18 and now the EDL, Malcolm X and the NOI were never associated with any public disturbances or acts of violence towards white people. Neither did their views make derogatory claims about how inferior one race was to the other.
On the other hand folks, Churchill famously made derogatory remarks about Indians, Kurds and Africans. This wasn't because Africans or Kurds had taken away Churchill's right to vote or forced him to sit at the back of the bus. Churchill whilst a man of his generation which was a very much racist generation, had travelled extensively throughout his time and been exposed to various cultures but yet still held those opinions. Whilst Malcolm X may have made comments that could have been viewed as racist, it is important to note that he did apologise for this and sought to redeem his ways.
By my recollection of reading history books etc., I don't remember once "the great" Winston Churchill ever apologising about the racist remarks he made about Islam, Indians, Kurds or Africans. Churchill had no reason to be racist, it was just his nature.
Now people keep spouting on this BS about how his racist views were "acceptable because that was the norm in the 19th century" which is totally rubbish. There were many well known figures just before and immediately after Churchill's time who didn't hold such views and as I keep saying, if people at a certain point of time weren't prepared to accept that their views were wrong and that racism was wrong, we'd be very much stuck in Churchill mindset and we'd never have advanced as a society.
In a previous thread on Churchill I gave the examples of JFK and his brother Bobby Kennedy both of whom were prominent in their support of civil rights and famously grew up in a wealthy background with very little if any exposure to black people as was the norm at their time. However their views on race were based on common sense, progression and compassion and rightly so this is why these figures are revered.
I am not for one moment saying we shouldn't revere Churchill. I respect his achievements as a wartime PM and if it wasn't for his quick-thinking intervention and his somewhat rousing speeches during one Britain's darkest hours, the UK would have been a very different place and the course of history may well have been different. So yes Churchill should always be remembered and respected for that. However I do not respect him as a man and certainly do not view him as a hero. As a Brit with Indian heritage do you honestly think I am going to admire a man who passionately hated my ethnic group?
Without sounding un-PC it would seem those attacking Malcolm X for his "anti-white comments" may themselves be white. Frankly I can understand that labelling him as a racist is your means of a knee-jerk reaction. You have to appreciate that in a similar fashion there are going to be many British-Asians, British-Africans etc who won't be so fond of Churchill. Learn to respect that.
However you can't knock Malcolm X for being "racist" when his views were that of a brainwashed individual who later sought forgiveness and redemption and then support Winston Churchill as a morally upstanding character when he was an open and unrepetentant racist. Malcolm X gave hope to those seeking Civil Right and it was he who perhaps first coined the expression "African-American" and "Black is Beautiful" and that wasn't to make out that the black race was superiour to the white race, it was just that a race of people who for so long had been made to feel like the trash of society should be proud of who they are.
To be honest I shouldn't have to explain all this to people who would dub themselves as wannabe MPs, Oxbridge material etc. Everything I've said is well documented in texts on the relevant subjects. Go read them before making bold and rash statements.
Original post by bananaterracottapie
..
.. = ditto?
Original post by Warrior King
.. = ditto?
nope.
Original post by AnarchistNutter
The man changed his ways, give him a break jeez
I still like him, but unlike certain individuals, I have enough objectivity to not let my emotions cloud me from what the man was.
His type of person was necessary at the time, but to try and call him some kind of hero is ridiculous.
Original post by D.R.E
I still like him, but unlike certain individuals, I have enough objectivity to not let my emotions cloud me from what the man was.
His type of person was necessary at the time, but to try and call him some kind of hero is ridiculous.
His type of person was necessary at the time, but to try and call him some kind of hero is ridiculous.
If you have something to say, spit it out rather than used close captioning.
My emotions don't cloud me from the "man that he was".
He wasn't a racist anyone with the tiniest shred of credibility who has researched the topic will tell you that.
I guess by your statement, the same could apply to Winston Churchill right? The only ridiculous person here is you so like I said previously take you're head out of your rectum and breathe normal air for a change?
Also to those who have given me negative rep, please don't hide. Please post here and tell me why I'm wrong about my views on Churchill and what makes you so right about Malcolm X being racist.
To be fair I think the real racists amongst us are the one accusing Malcolm X of racism. Too blinded by ignorance to seek the truth.
Original post by Warrior King
If you have something to say, spit it out rather than used close captioning.
My emotions don't cloud me from the "man that he was".
He wasn't a racist anyone with the tiniest shred of credibility who has researched the topic will tell you that.
I guess by your statement, the same could apply to Winston Churchill right? The only ridiculous person here is you so like I said previously take you're head out of your rectum and breathe normal air for a change?
Also to those who have given me negative rep, please don't hide. Please post here and tell me why I'm wrong about my views on Churchill and what makes you so right about Malcolm X being racist.
To be fair I think the real racists amongst us are the one accusing Malcolm X of racism. Too blinded by ignorance to seek the truth.
My emotions don't cloud me from the "man that he was".
He wasn't a racist anyone with the tiniest shred of credibility who has researched the topic will tell you that.
I guess by your statement, the same could apply to Winston Churchill right? The only ridiculous person here is you so like I said previously take you're head out of your rectum and breathe normal air for a change?
Also to those who have given me negative rep, please don't hide. Please post here and tell me why I'm wrong about my views on Churchill and what makes you so right about Malcolm X being racist.
To be fair I think the real racists amongst us are the one accusing Malcolm X of racism. Too blinded by ignorance to seek the truth.
Why the hell are you so obsessed with rectums?
Churchill was racist, and what about? Doesn't take anything away from Malcolm X.
Original post by D.R.E
Why the hell are you so obsessed with rectums?
Churchill was racist, and what about? Doesn't take anything away from Malcolm X.
Churchill was racist, and what about? Doesn't take anything away from Malcolm X.
What you mean your name DRE doesn't stand for Digital Rectal Examination?
Original post by Warrior King
What you mean your name DRE doesn't stand for Digital Rectal Examination?
LOL.
You do make me laugh.
Original post by D.R.E
LOL.
You do make me laugh.
You do make me laugh.
But that's DRE does stand for in a medical context. I write it patient notes all the time if and when I have to perfom such a procedure and my findings.
"So if he was racist, it was due to the opression he and has people were being dealt. Agreed, not all the white men he was talking about were devils but when the majority he/they had encountered were those who'd opress them, would they want to give the time of day to an entire group?"
You've pretty much just defined racism.
You've pretty much just defined racism.
Original post by jorgan92
"So if he was racist, it was due to the opression he and has people were being dealt. Agreed, not all the white men he was talking about were devils but when the majority he/they had encountered were those who'd opress them, would they want to give the time of day to an entire group?"
You've pretty much just defined racism.
You've pretty much just defined racism.
Don't bump old threads please.
Related discussions
- Help with History Nea Coursework
- OCR A level History
- Edexcel A Level History Paper 2: Depth Study 9HI0 2A-2H - 10 Jun 2022 [Exam Chat]
- AQA History NEA
- aqa gcse english lit macbeth
- Edexcel GCSE English Literature Paper 1 (1ET0 01) - 13th May 2024 [Exam Chat]
- Can anyone mark this english lit essay? AQA mark scheme
- Scholarship UCL application
- Do you think this covers most possible questions for Macbeth? (eduqas)
- Macbethh
- gcse aqa urgent please help
- my eng literature notes (grade 7/8) (gsce 2022)
- Best TV show to watch?
- How do I get an A* in my History Coursework?
- Predictions for English Literature 2023 Edexcel
- Who's your favourite historical figure?
- Nobody cares about 'changing' the world
- Official Canterbury Christ Church University 2023 Applicant Thread
- My south Asian best friend is racist to white people
- Resit Y13 at sixth form or resit as a private candidate at another college?
Latest
Trending
Last reply 2 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 2 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 2 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?Trending
Last reply 2 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 2 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 2 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?
