Tony Blair pm for only 1 more week? Watch

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pkonline
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Daveo)
You must be psychic then because it wasnt part of the original bill! it was only introduced cos Mr Blair was too scared to go the "whole hog"
I ain't psychic, just want to find out all the info before making a judgement lol.

There wasn't an original bill was there? I thought this is the 1st time time its being brought to Parliament :confused: ?
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Howard
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#42
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#42
(Original post by pkonline)
A supreme court which severes the link between the judicary and politicians is a very good thing.
Well, I wouldn't say that "severing" the link between judiciary and legislature is the purpose of the US Supreme Court since there is already a fairly strong separation of powers.

The US Supreme Court is merely an additional check and balance mechanism on what the folks in Congress are getting up to.
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Daveo
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#43
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#43
(Original post by pkonline)
So why did u say earlier that it should be extended too all degrees? And how would you decide which degrees and worth it to fund? And how would you fund unis who would still have a shortfall in income?
I didnt say all degrees i said "not just for doctors"!
I wud introduce a system by which every1 that works for the state has all their student fees/loans paid off.
And if the government were not wasting money here there and everywhere there wud be no shortfall in income for universities, NHS, police, or whatever.
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PQ
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#44
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#44
(Original post by Daveo)
You must be psychic then because it wasnt part of the original bill! it was only introduced cos Mr Blair was too scared to go the "whole hog"
umm - yes it was - it was included in the original white paper to introduce £1000pa grants to students who'se parents earn less than £15kpa starting university in 2004. The only change has been to promise to increase the grant to £1500 in 2006 - and that was made 2 months before the bill was presented to paliament - same with the other changes...they're different from the white paper but they were discussed and decided on long before the bill was presented.
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pkonline
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#45
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(Original post by Howard)
Well, I wouldn't say that "severing" the link between judiciary and legislature is the purpose of the US Supreme Court since there is already a fairly strong separation of powers.

The US Supreme Court is merely an additional check and balance mechanism on what the folks in Congress are getting up to.
Yeh but I'm on about the proposed British Supreme Court. Not bothered about the US's. If it means that judges will be independent etc then its fine with me.
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Daveo
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#46
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#46
(Original post by pkonline)
I ain't psychic, just want to find out all the info before making a judgement lol.

There wasn't an original bill was there? I thought this is the 1st time time its being brought to Parliament :confused: ?
Sorry not orriginal bill but the original explaination of what the bill would include - there was no mention of this SUPPOSEABLE £3000 for poor students.
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PQ
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#47
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#47
(Original post by pkonline)
I ain't psychic, just want to find out all the info before making a judgement lol.

There wasn't an original bill was there? I thought this is the 1st time time its being brought to Parliament :confused: ?
Yup Daveo is getting it confused with the white paper
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serendipity
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#48
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#48
(Original post by hattori)
Did you see Newsnight when tony blair looked bored and fed up about having to go over the same old questions, Ill-informed views and remarks that had nothing to do with the topic. Couldn't the BBC get together a audience that knew what they were talking about.
Blair looked fed up?! I'm fed up with his party desecrating the traditional values of this country!
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Daveo
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
umm - yes it was - it was included in the original white paper to introduce £1000pa grants to students who'se parents earn less than £15kpa starting university in 2004. The only change has been to promise to increase the grant to £1500 in 2006 - and that was made 2 months before the bill was presented to paliament - same with the other changes...they're different from the white paper but they were discussed and decided on long before the bill was presented.
Nobody told me i wud be gettin £1000 in 2004! If this is the case which i am now not sure i stand corrected! However increasing it is still tinkering with it. and yes ok £1500 grant but they now have to pay almost £2000 in fees when they graduate therefore a net loss of £500
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PQ
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Daveo)
Sorry not orriginal bill but the original explaination of what the bill would include - there was no mention of this SUPPOSEABLE £3000 for poor students.
Yes there was - £1000 grant £1200 in fees + bursaries supplied by universities...the increase to the grant was decided upon months ago and the compulsory bursary of £300 for uni's charging the full £3k fees was announced just before christmas (and don't accuse me of being psychic I was asked to work out what it would cost us)
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pkonline
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Daveo)
Sorry not orriginal bill but the original explaination of what the bill would include - there was no mention of this SUPPOSEABLE £3000 for poor students.
There was definately talk of helping poorer students. During consulation the ideas are refined until a good piece of legislation is made. It seems silly to me to jump of an issue without it being finsihed and understood.
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Howard
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Daveo)
I didnt say all degrees i said "not just for doctors"!
I wud introduce a system by which every1 that works for the state has all their student fees/loans paid off.
And if the government were not wasting money here there and everywhere there wud be no shortfall in income for universities, NHS, police, or whatever.
So, why should folks that work for the State have all their fees paid off and those in the private sector have to stomach their fees?

Wouldn't your idea encourage the study of only certain types of degree (those that might be very useful in the State sector - ie teaching, social work) leaving a shortfall of graduates in, for example, banking & finance, and engineering?

All this would do would be to intellectually impoverish the private sector, which would be a shame, since the public sector is financed (yes that'll include your salary) by the folks in private enterprize.
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Daveo
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
Yes there was - £1000 grant £1200 in fees + bursaries supplied by universities...the increase to the grant was decided upon months ago and the compulsory bursary of £300 for uni's charging the full £3k fees was announced just before christmas (and don't accuse me of being psychic I was asked to work out what it would cost us)
Well thats interestin cos thats not what i was told but if i'm worong then i sincerely appologise and im still gunna be owing £30000 when i graduate!
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PQ
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#54
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#54
(Original post by Daveo)
Nobody told me i wud be gettin £1000 in 2004! If this is the case which i am now not sure i stand corrected! However increasing it is still tinkering with it. and yes ok £1500 grant but they now have to pay almost £2000 in fees when they graduate therefore a net loss of £500
http://www.dfes.gov.uk/highereducati...freedoms.shtml for the original proposals on funding. Published in January 2003 - and the only changes they've made was to correct the spelling mistakes
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pkonline
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#55
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#55
(Original post by serendipity)
Blair looked fed up?! I'm fed up with his party desecrating the traditional values of this country!
what values?
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serendipity
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#56
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#56
(Original post by Howard)
$30,000 debt to be a doctor? Big deal! What's that? 6 months salary for an "average" GP?

Even the word "debt" is questionable in your case. As an MD you have a better than average chance of living a life of privelage and high earnings. This isn't a debt my friend. This is an investment.
Look, clearly you are poorly informed. GPs are not well paid. That was a full stop.

No matter how much a GP will make later on, NO student should have t start their lives with £20,000 of debt.
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Howard
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#57
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#57
(Original post by pkonline)
Yeh but I'm on about the proposed British Supreme Court. Not bothered about the US's. If it means that judges will be independent etc then its fine with me.
Oh. I didn't know they were proposing one.
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Daveo
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#58
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#58
(Original post by Howard)
So, why should folks that work for the State have all their fees paid off and those in the private sector have to stomach their fees?

Wouldn't your idea encourage the study of only certain types of degree (those that might be very useful in the State sector - ie teaching, social work) leaving a shortfall of graduates in, for example, banking & finance, and engineering?

All this would do would be to intellectually impoverish the private sector, which would be a shame, since the public sector is financed (yes that'll include your salary) by the folks in private enterprize.
Ok yes i do agree that it mite affect private sector graduates however there must be a feasible method of reducing the burden on graduates who are offering there services to the government.
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AT82
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#59
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#59
Can I ask a question which was partly raised on news night last night but Blair didn't really answer it. What happens to the universities that can't charge £3000 a year because they don't have a good enough reputation? Where are they going to get the extra money from?

Also is it true there will be no extra places on undergraduate (BA, Bsc, Beng etc) courses in the next 10 years?
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Daveo
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#60
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#60
(Original post by serendipity)
Look, clearly you are poorly informed. GPs are not well paid. That was a full stop.

No matter how much a GP will make later on, NO student should have t start their lives with £20,000 of debt.
Exactly just ask Mr Blair how much debt he had when he came out of university??
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