Should Scottish MPs vote on top-up fees? Watch

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gayboy09
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#21
Report 15 years ago
#21
If we are not going to pay top-up fees, who do you think should?

The only ones that will really reap the benefits out of going to Uni is us, otherwise we would'nt bother going in the first place.
I hate the argument that says "I am going to be a doctor, helping other people. They should contribute to it".

Nonsense. You do not make the choice to be a doctor for the sake of other people, it is totally for the sake of yourself and the pay packet.

I'm sure if people of the lower strata's of society are consulted, they probably agree with the notion that they should pay less than the better off students.
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magicalsausage
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#22
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#22
(Original post by ickle_katy)
scotish students dont pay tuition fees, what ever uni they go to.
No, Scottish students pay fees after graduation once they reach a certain income if they study at a Scottish University, and if they study elsewhere in the UK then they have to pay accordingly - so any top-up fees introduced in England would be imposed on Scottish students at university there. Personally, I will be applying outside of Scotland for University and although I should start before the fees are introduced, to say that the issue does not concern Scottish MPs is ridiculous - a very large number of Scottish students go south every year for University and would have to pay top up fees, so to say that they should not expect adequate representation on the issue at Westminster is grossly unfair.
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LH
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#23
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#23
Well the majority of voters seem to think that they shouldn't vote.
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George-W-Duck
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Well the majority of voters seem to think that they shouldn't vote.
Am i right to think that labour has a majority in scotland? If so, then it will be the whipped labour smp's pushing a bill for england through parliament which is an outrage.
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jammyd
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Well the majority of voters seem to think that they shouldn't vote.
What gives you that idea?
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LH
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#26
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#26
(Original post by jammyd)
What gives you that idea?
I mean voters on my little poll. Few of whom, ironically, are real voters.
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LH
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#27
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#27
(Original post by George-W-Duck)
Am i right to think that labour has a majority in scotland? If so, then it will be the whipped labour smp's pushing a bill for england through parliament which is an outrage.
Yes, which is why these votes are important, the Scottish MPs could decide the outcome of the vote.
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magicalsausage
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#28
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#28
If so, then it will be the whipped labour smp's pushing a bill for england through parliament which is an outrage.
The Scottish Labour MPs are no more whipped than those from the rest of the UK!
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jammyd
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
I mean voters on my little poll. Few of whom, ironically, are real voters.
lol.
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George-W-Duck
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Yes, which is why these votes are important, the Scottish MPs could decide the outcome of the vote.
Disgraceful, this undevolved devolution makes a mockery of the whole political system.
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happysunshine
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Yes, which is why these votes are important, the Scottish MPs could decide the outcome of the vote.
But why should they? :confused:
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magicalsausage
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#32
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#32
But why should they?
Because unlike most of the issues that Scottish MPs vote on, this is one that directly affects people living in Scotland. This is one of the few cases that I actually support Scottish MPs voting in principle (although it seems that in practice they may prove instrumental in the return of a result that I disagree with, I still think that they have a duty/right to vote).
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Howard
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#33
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#33
(Original post by happysunshine)
But why should they? :confused:
They shouldn't.

It's a complete hash. But, that's what happens when you only "half devolve" and tinker with constitutional arrangements without knowing what you are doing and with little regard for democracy. Labor are experts at this.
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happysunshine
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#34
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#34
(Original post by magicalsausage)
Because unlike most of the issues that Scottish MPs vote on, this is one that directly affects people living in Scotland. This is one of the few cases that I actually support Scottish MPs voting in principle (although it seems that in practice they may prove instrumental in the return of a result that I disagree with, I still think that they have a duty/right to vote).
Sorry if I sound dense here, but why does it affect people in Scotland since they just pay their prices not ours if they want to study in England (or that is what I thought I was told, but I didn't think it seemed right). We didn't have say in the scottish education system, right?
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Howard
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#35
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#35
(Original post by magicalsausage)
Because unlike most of the issues that Scottish MPs vote on, this is one that directly affects people living in Scotland. This is one of the few cases that I actually support Scottish MPs voting in principle (although it seems that in practice they may prove instrumental in the return of a result that I disagree with, I still think that they have a duty/right to vote).
How does English parents paying or not paying top-up fees of their English children when they go to an English university directly affect Scotland?
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Kurdt Morello
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#36
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#36
they should vote because then tuition fees will quickly disappear like waste down a toilet
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magicalsausage
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#37
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#37
Sorry if I sound dense here, but why does it affect people in Scotland since they just pay their prices not ours if they want to study in England (or that is what I thought I was told, but I didn't think it seemed right). We didn't have say in the scottish education system, right?
Scottish people studying at universities in England have to pay the same as English people (though there is a small amount of extra grant money available). The reason that the Scottish system was devised without English people having a say is because it affected only Scots while the situation remained exactly the same for those elsewhere in the UK studying in Scotland.
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magicalsausage
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#38
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#38
How does English parents paying or not paying top-up fees of their English children when they go to an English university directly affect Scotland?
Because Scottish parents whose children go to an English university would have to pay those top-up fees too.
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Howard
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#39
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#39
(Original post by magicalsausage)
Scottish people studying at universities in England have to pay the same as English people (though there is a small amount of extra grant money available). The reason that the Scottish system was devised without English people having a say is because it affected only Scots while the situation remained exactly the same for those elsewhere in the UK studying in Scotland.
I think the whole point here is that the Scot's Parliament thought top up fees were a bad idea for Scotland and voted against their introduction. Now, those same MP's think it's a good idea for England.

Sort of leaves a bitter taste in my mouth to be honest.
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magicalsausage
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#40
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#40
I think the whole point here is that the Scot's Parliament thought top up fees were a bad idea for Scotland and voted against their introduction. Now, those same MP's think it's a good idea for England.
The Scottish Parliament is completely seperate from Westminster with different elections and different MPs.

Although I agree with you that it's bad that so many Labour MPs will vote with their party rather than with their constituents, to put the blame on Scottish MPs alone is unfair - Labour MPs across Britain will be voting against the wishes of their constituents and against their own principles!
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