Should Scottish MPs vote on top-up fees? Watch

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magicalsausage
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#61
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#61
you are not being denied but if you have a seperate legislature that is given primary powers, then in that aspect the countries within the union should be treated seperately.
But the fact is that there are a great deal more universities in England than in Scotland, including most of the "Super League" (with a few notable exceptions), and a large number of scottish students choose to go to these universities - so how can anyone say that scottish people are not affected by this bill?
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magicalsausage
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#62
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Yes, but perhaps English opinion DOES support the idea of full independence of both Scotland.
You can't force independance on a country!
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Howard
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#63
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(Original post by magicalsausage)
But the fact is that there are a great deal more universities in England than in Scotland, including most of the "Super League" (with a few notable exceptions), and a large number of scottish students choose to go to these universities - so how can anyone say that scottish people are not affected by this bill?
Look. The Scot's wanted devolution. Tony Blair gave it to them. Perhaps they should have thought about the fact that there aren't enough universities in Scotland earlier.
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JSM
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#64
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#64
(Original post by magicalsausage)
But the fact is that there are a great deal more universities in England than in Scotland, including most of the "Super League" (with a few notable exceptions), and a large number of scottish students choose to go to these universities - so how can anyone say that scottish people are not affected by this bill?
so are french students, so what, they have their own education system, with scottish highers, totally seperate institutions, if they want to come to england they can, but it is a choice, ohh, i think cos i want to go to america i should be able to propose free university education at harvard for me oooh
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Muse
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#65
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(Original post by JSM)
whereas we, as english students would have to pay even if we elect to go to university in our own country, which will probably be forced through by scottish MPs to whose constituents it only affects to the same degree as any one else wishign to study abroad. You can't really ahve two independent countries within a union and one which is just the union.
So what about Wales? It also has its own parliament, but we are all in the same country. The legalisation split to different 'parliaments' only helps to confuse matters.
Maybe the scottish labour MPs should abstain from voting like the only conservative scottish MP? That way, it would demonstrate fairness in the democracy of parliament and also let the scottish MPs show that they realise the decision would only effect england (and wales).
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JSM
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#66
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(Original post by timeofyourlife)
So what about Wales? It also has its own parliament, but we are all in the same country. The legalisation split to different 'parliaments' only helps to confuse matters.
Maybe the scottish labour MPs should abstain from voting like the only conservative scottish MP? That way, it would demonstrate fairness in the democracy of parliament and also let the scottish MPs show that they realise the decision would only effect england (and wales).
wales only has an assembly and this does not have power over further education, which is why the bill affects england and wales
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magicalsausage
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#67
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so are french students, so what, they have their own education system, with scottish highers, totally seperate institutions, if they want to come to england they can, but it is a choice, ohh, i think cos i want to go to america i should be able to propose free university education at harvard for me oooh
But the University is the same, it's only the payment that is different, we all apply through UCAS etc.
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Howard
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#68
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(Original post by magicalsausage)
You can't force independance on a country!
Yes we can.

Parliament (the big one in London that's full of English MP's) only needs pass an Act of Parliament, for kicks and giggles let's call it "The Final Dissolution of Scotland Act" and Scotland would no longer be a part of the UK. Not theoretically that difficult at all.
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Muse
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#69
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#69
(Original post by JSM)
wales only has an assembly and this does not have power over further education, which is why the bill affects england and wales
Out of interest, when do we find out the result? And did any scottish MPs abstain apart from the conservative one?
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magicalsausage
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#70
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Parliament (the big one in London that's full of English MP's) only needs pass an Act of Parliament, for kicks and giggles let's call it "The Final Dissolution of Scotland Act" and Scotland would no longer be a part of the UK. Not theoretically that difficult at all.
I meant morally, and there is no way that any UK Government in the near future would ever impose independance against the wishes of the Scottish population, nor would they want to - notably in losing substantial oil revenue.
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JSM
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#71
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(Original post by timeofyourlife)
Out of interest, when do we find out the result? And did any scottish MPs abstain apart from the conservative one?
hasnt happened yet, tuesday i think, im sure twill be on the news
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JSM
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#72
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(Original post by magicalsausage)
But the University is the same, it's only the payment that is different, we all apply through UCAS etc.
university is not the same, you have different laws over them, im gonna do a vienna,

go and research what you are arguing then come back whe nyou know what you are on about - so when you are conservative
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Howard
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#73
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(Original post by magicalsausage)
I meant morally, and there is no way that any UK Government in the near future would ever impose independance against the wishes of the Scottish population, nor would they want to - notably in losing substantial oil revenue.
But, the money lost on oil revenue could easily be offset by the extortionate fees charged to Scottish students who need to come to English universities for a decent education.
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magicalsausage
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#74
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go and research what you are arguing then come back whe nyou know what you are on about - so when you are conservative
How can you accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about when you have been claiming facts that are completely not true? I know what I'm talking about.

And since when was I a conservative?
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Muse
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#75
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(Original post by JSM)
whe nyou know what you are on about - so when you are conservative
I'm sure John Prescott is very well up on current affairs.
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Howard
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#76
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(Original post by magicalsausage)
How can you accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about when you have been claiming facts that are completely not true? I know what I'm talking about.

And since when was I a conservative?
No. You misunderstand. JSM was saying "come back WHEN you are a conservative"........
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magicalsausage
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#77
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But, the money lost on oil revenue could easily be offset by the extortionate fees charged to Scottish students who need to come to English universities for a decent education.
I would be very suprised if the number of Scots travelling to England for University did not fall massively if they were charged the same as EU citizens. And even if not, it would come nowhere near to the money from scottish oil.
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magicalsausage
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#78
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Why does any reasonably intelligent argument on the internet always end up in somebody criticising somebody else's intelligence, grammar or spelling?
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JSM
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#79
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(Original post by magicalsausage)
How can you accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about when you have been claiming facts that are completely not true? I know what I'm talking about.

And since when was I a conservative?
what facts have i claimed that were not true, i know about this issue very well, i have jsut been repeating the same point to you and am gettign frustrated as you appear not to get it
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Howard
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#80
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#80
(Original post by magicalsausage)
I would be very suprised if the number of Scots travelling to England for University did not fall massively if they were charged the same as EU citizens. And even if not, it would come nowhere near to the money from scottish oil.
Well, if the amount of Scots students fell that would create more places for English students. Sound fair? English college places for English kids?

What do you mean Scottish Oil? Since when was the North Sea owned by Scotland which hasn't even been an independent country for over 300 years?

It's the UK's oil, not yours!
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