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    What is the reason why both tuition fees are being raised AND University budgets are being substantially decreased? For if maintaining the high standards of our universities were the issue, wouldn't funding be increased? And if the reduction of the deficit were the issue, why are those who will make up a large proportion of the future generation being saddled with huge debts when as Nick Clegg put it:
    "tackling the deficit means wiping the slate clean for the next generation." And if it is people who choose not to go to university, how does fewer doctors, fewer lawyers, fewer engineers and fewer teachers benefit society?

    So who benefits?
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    The government, which in turn helps all of us in a way.
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    The country.
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    (Original post by lonely14)
    The country.
    Which is made up of people.
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    (Original post by Complex Simplicity)
    What is the reason why both tuition fees are being raised AND University budgets are being substantially decreased? For if maintaining the high standards of our universities were the issue, wouldn't funding be increased? And if the reduction of the deficit were the issue, why are those who will make up a large proportion of the future generation being saddled with huge debts when as Nick Clegg put it:
    "tackling the deficit means wiping the slate clean for the next generation." And if it is people who choose not to go to university, how does fewer doctors, fewer lawyers, fewer engineers and fewer teachers benefit society?

    So who benefits?
    The Tories benefit, because they are making the university system even more elitist, furthering their hopes for an elitist society. Not that I'm bitter. :/
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    (Original post by Breedlove)
    The government, which in turn helps all of us in a way.
    In a democracy, the government is servant to it's people. The point of my post being, in a truly utilitarian sense of cost to benefits, what are the further benefits to society as a whole by an increase in tuition fees in conjunction with a substantial decrease in University funding? If as you presume that the government is benefitting, the question becomes: are we as a nation being helped out more in exchange for this increase cost to society as a whole?
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    (Original post by Complex Simplicity)
    What is the reason why both tuition fees are being raised AND University budgets are being substantially decreased? For if maintaining the high standards of our universities were the issue, wouldn't funding be increased? And if the reduction of the deficit were the issue, why are those who will make up a large proportion of the future generation being saddled with huge debts when as Nick Clegg put it:
    "tackling the deficit means wiping the slate clean for the next generation." And if it is people who choose not to go to university, how does fewer doctors, fewer lawyers, fewer engineers and fewer teachers create more jobs in the future?

    So who benefits?

    look, the government is hoping that people will pay themselves for their studies, because if they do - then bingo - UK will have educated people, the government will not have any costs assosiated with it, plus it will put an extra money in the economy from the private sector.

    the problem is, many people won't be able to afford or alternatively choose not to pay that much for uni. so the the amount of degrees will certainly be decreased.

    having said all this, it's not the reasons I've written above that the government does this step. it's not because this step is beneficial for anybody. it's because the government can not afford to do otherwise.

    in other words, in you are a family, and you have a lot of monthly interests for your mortgage from your bank, then your income is reduced - what you have to do is, you for example might decide not to pay for car insurance and not drive a car. it's not beneficial for you, not beneficial for the economy etc. you do it because you have to - so kind of, not every steps that you make is beneficial or helpful to anybody, and that's what the government is doing.

    but note, if students do pay for their tuition fees it will be extremely helpful for the economy. the question is, will students do that? the gov. hopes they will.
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    The economy...?
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    (Original post by vahik92)
    look, the government is hoping that people will pay themselves for their studies, because if they do - then bingo - UK will have educated people, the government will not have any costs assosiated with it, plus it will put an extra money in the economy from the private sector.

    the problem is, many people won't be able to afford or alternatively choose not to pay that much for uni. so the the amount of degrees will certainly be decreased.

    having said all this, it's not the reasons I've written above that the government does this step. it's not because this step is beneficial for anybody. it's because the government can not afford to do otherwise.

    in other words, in you are a family, and you have a lot of monthly interests for your mortgage from your bank, then your income is reduced - what you have to do is, you for example might decide not to pay for car insurance and not drive a car. it's not beneficial for you, not beneficial for the economy etc. you do it because you have to - so kind of, not every steps that you make is beneficial or helpful to anybody, and that's what the government is doing.

    but note, if students do pay for their tuition fees it will be extremely helpful for the economy. the question is, will students do that? the gov. hopes they will.
    Everyone (who doesn't already have a degree and is a UK home student) can afford it. That's what fee loans are for. I agree that some people might think it's not worth the money, but the 'people can't afford it' argument is just utter rubbish.
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    (Original post by Complex Simplicity)
    In a democracy, the government is servant to it's people. The point of my post being, in a truly utilitarian sense of cost to benefits, what are the further benefits to society as a whole by an increase in tuition fees in conjunction with a substantial decrease in University funding? If as you presume that the government is benefitting, the question becomes: are we as a nation being helped out more in exchange for this increase cost to society as a whole?
    Increased cost to society? I'm sure we can all survive with a few less art students. The costs will stop people going to university just "for the hell of it" and instead make it a place where you go to get a great degree which you're actually interested in enough to pay the extra money. In my opinion there won't be that fewer doctors, scientists or lawyers because they are well paid jobs anyhow.

    Also, universities have to show that they are offering more bursaries if they wish to raise their fees.
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    (Original post by angelmxxx)
    Everyone (who doesn't already have a degree and is a UK home student) can afford it. That's what fee loans are for. I agree that some people might think it's not worth the money, but the 'people can't afford it' argument is just utter rubbish.
    really? what about those who do not qualify for a student loan because of an income of their parents of I think about £51,000? can they afford £9,000 if their spending is lets say £45,000 a year?
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    The benefit is that we don't default on our gilts, ruin our credit rating, and send us spiralling down like the Irish.

    Then maybe you'll have to pay the full, unsubsidised cost of education. Enjoy that, socialists?

    http://www.debtbombshell.com/
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    (Original post by vahik92)
    look, the government is hoping that people will pay themselves for their studies, because if they do - then bingo - UK will have educated people, the government will not have any costs assosiated with it, plus it will put an extra money in the economy from the private sector.

    the problem is, many people won't be able to afford or alternatively choose not to pay that much for uni. so the the amount of degrees will certainly be decreased.

    having said all this, it's not the reasons I've written above that the government does this step. it's not because this step is beneficial for anybody. it's because the government can not afford to do otherwise.

    in other words, in you are a family, and you have a lot of monthly interests for your mortgage from your bank, then your income is reduced - what you have to do is, you for example might decide not to pay for car insurance and not drive a car. it's not beneficial for you, not beneficial for the economy etc. you do it because you have to - so kind of, not every steps that you make is beneficial or helpful to anybody, and that's what the government is doing.

    but note, if students do pay for their tuition fees it will be extremely helpful for the economy. the question is, will students do that? the gov. hopes they will.
    That would be incredibly naive without the proper market research, all evidence points to an almost certain decline in the students who will be prepared to go to university following the increase in tuition fees.

    In terms of the government, again I'd like to emphasise this point: the government is meant to be serving it's people. As a result investing in its people will undoubtedly reap the benefits of a more vibrant economy. If you look at many of the south east Asian countries like South Korea and Singapore, or the Scandinavian countries, they've all heavily invested in Research and Development and all as a direct result are reaping the benefits of strong growth and lower unemployment.

    What I'm saying is to cut off the high initial cost is short sighted because in the long term the country's economy suffers. And the potential growth lost is far higher than the initial start up costs.

    (NB people can't go into post graduate research without an undergraduate degree so a vast decrease in undergraduates will affect the population of post graduates. Moreover many undergraduates can still go into R and D)
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    (Original post by AskMeAnything)
    The benefit is that we don't default on our gilts, ruin our credit rating, and send us spiralling down like the Irish.

    Then maybe you'll have to pay the full, unsubsidised cost of education. Enjoy that, socialists?

    http://www.debtbombshell.com/
    Do explain Germany, where they manage to keep fees in the low hundreds and yet have a far better credit rating than ours? Or are they also socialists?
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    David Cameron.
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    (Original post by vahik92)
    really? what about those who do not qualify for a student loan because of an income of their parents of I think about £51,000? can they afford £9,000 if their spending is lets say £45,000 a year?
    EVERYONE GETS A FEE LOAN, EVEN IF YOUR PARENTS ARE BILLIONAIRES.

    Those limits are only for MAINTENANCE loans!

    No Government would propose £9000 fees with no loans!
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    I think the dumbest part is people who pay back the fees early/ become really sucessful have to pay a fee "so they can't buy their way out of the system"er well how else are you supposed to get out
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    (Original post by Complex Simplicity)
    Do explain Germany, where they manage to keep fees in the low hundreds and yet have a far better credit rating than ours? Or are they also socialists?
    Because they're economically stronger than us. Their national debt went down in 2010 by -0.8%. Their deficit is the one of the lowest in the eurozone. They have a strong manufacturing base which we do not have. They are not bankrupt. They're the ones bailing out other European countries.

    Simply put, they can afford it and we cannot. I'm not for higher fees, but I hate people who go on about who this will 'benefit'. Clearly - nobody on a personal level, everybody on a general level.
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    (Original post by vahik92)
    really? what about those who do not qualify for a student loan because of an income of their parents of I think about £51,000? can they afford £9,000 if their spending is lets say £45,000 a year?
    What? That's just wrong, everybody will be eligible to get the full loan for tuition fees, as now...
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    (Original post by Breedlove)
    Increased cost to society? I'm sure we can all survive with a few less art students. The costs will stop people going to university just "for the hell of it" and instead make it a place where you go to get a great degree which you're actually interested in enough to pay the extra money. In my opinion there won't be that fewer doctors, scientists or lawyers because they are well paid jobs anyhow.

    Also, universities have to show that they are offering more bursaries if they wish to raise their fees.
    But instead it's just going to mean students expect to be spoon-fed more because they pay more. University already has too many students that expect to be pumped full of knowledge because they paid the university.

    People should go to uni with the understanding they're going to have to do some self learning. Increasing fees simply decreases the chances of that happening.

    -J
 
 
 
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