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Would you like to see absolute seculairsm in the UK Watch

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    - Disestablishment of the Church of England.

    - Complete removal of religion from governance (Lords Spiritual, Queen being Head of the C of E, and so on).

    - Removal of religion from hatred laws.

    - Banning of faith schools.

    - Providing no social, political, or physical privileges to religion.

    - No requirement to provide places of worship to theists. Planning permission would be treated completely equally to everything else.

    People would still be able to worship privately, they would simply not receive any privileges in public. So, a Christian (for example) would receive as much legal or social privileges for their beliefs as a Communist does - nothing.

    Would you like to see this, or not?
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    It is possible to be a communist & a Christian at the same time.
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    http://www.thecsm.org.uk/ - Christian Socialists
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    No. I would like a state where any given religion doesn't influence the lives of those who don't want it to, however some of the things you've posted have simply gone beyond that and infringed upon the liberties of religious people.

    For example disestablishing the Church of England is a tad OTT. The Church doesn't actually affect any of us if we don't want it to, and it's a little bit of culture/history so I wouldn't worry about disestablishing it. Again the banning of faith schools, whilst I'm sceptical about the government funding them, they shouldn't be banned. If a parent wants their child to go to a state school then they should have that right.

    So as I said, I'm for a state where religion is less influential in the lives of those who don't wish for it, but absolute secularism? No thanks.
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    Ysplz!!!1kthxbai
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    Ideally, yes. Realistically, no.
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    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    - Disestablishment of the Church of England.

    - Complete removal of religion from governance (Lords Spiritual, Queen being Head of the C of E, and so on).

    - Removal of religion from hatred laws.

    - Banning of faith schools.

    - Providing no social, political, or physical privileges to religion.

    - No requirement to provide places of worship to theists. Planning permission would be treated completely equally to everything else.

    People would still be able to worship privately, they would simply not receive any privileges in public. So, a Christian (for example) would receive as much legal or social privileges for their beliefs as a Communist does - nothing.

    Would you like to see this, or not?
    YES!!!!!!!!
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    definatly good idea. Future generations will look back on us in pity thinking of all the superstitions we let govern our societies
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    (Original post by tieyourmotherdown)
    some of the things you've posted have simply gone beyond that and infringed upon the liberties of religious people.
    How? It's just taking away some of the things that they shouldn't have been given in the first place.


    Again the banning of faith schools, whilst I'm sceptical about the government funding them, they shouldn't be banned. If a parent wants their child to go to a state school they should have that right.
    What if a parent wants to send their kid to a Satanist faith school? Or a Fascist training academy? Why should they not have the right?
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    (Original post by Prince Rhyus)
    It is possible to be a communist & a Christian at the same time.
    Lol, nice one.
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    No whether we like it or not christianity is a huge part of British culture, think of the cathedrals that we've built over the last millenium. They're beautiful and something that we should show off!
    Religion makes us different, I like it, providing no one is shoving it in other peoples faces, then live and let live.

    I went to a catholic primary school, chose to go to a secular secondary school and am now agnostic and completely neutral about religion.
    What I took from my experience at a faith school was "christian values" such as kindness and generosity. It'd be sad to see that stopped, also there were plenty of hindus and atheists as well.
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    (Original post by Prince Rhyus)
    It is possible to be a communist & a Christian at the same time.
    And that invalidates my point... how?
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    I think we should definitely stop any public money being wasted on religions causes, including faith schools, but I see no reason to ban them altogether as long as they're privately funded. Does the CoE receive any public funding, btw?
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    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    How? It's just taking away some of the things that they shouldn't have been given in the first place.




    What if a parent wants to send their kid to a Satanist faith school? Or a Fascist training academy? Why should they not have the right?
    Satanism has a bad press huh?
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    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    How? It's just taking away some of the things that they shouldn't have been given in the first place.
    Well I agree that churches shouldn't be given special privileges (I've never understood that) and that religion shouldn't have a direct influence in government (i.e the Lords) but for example removing religion from hatred laws. It seems contradictory to say that inciting hatred on the basis of homosexuality is wrong or race, yet doing it on the basis of religion is OK (If that's what you're getting at, removing religion from the 'Inciting [Insert here] hatred' laws). Just because you may not agree with something, doesn't mean it's OK to say it can be discriminated against.

    What if a parent wants to send their kid to a Satanist faith school? Or a Fascist training academy? Why should they not have the right?
    Well currently inciting violence on the basis of dozens of factors is illegal, and I would leave it that way, so I presume these schools would never be allowed to open. If, bizarrely enough, these training camps weren't inciting any violence at all, then technically they would be legal and I couldn't argue against parent's right to send their kids there, however much I disagree with the purpose of the camps themselves.
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    I worry that if the CofE is disestablished more radical religious groups might replace it. So in principle yes, but pragmatically probably not. Also I think private faith schools should be allowed to operate subject to relatively tight restrictions on what they can teach and how they operate.

    Other than those two objections I'd go for what you've outlined.
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    (Original post by tieyourmotherdown)
    No. I would like a state where any given religion doesn't influence the lives of those who don't want it to, however some of the things you've posted have simply gone beyond that and infringed upon the liberties of religious people.

    For example disestablishing the Church of England is a tad OTT. The Church doesn't actually affect any of us if we don't want it to, and it's a little bit of culture/history so I wouldn't worry about disestablishing it. Again the banning of faith schools, whilst I'm sceptical about the government funding them, they shouldn't be banned. If a parent wants their child to go to a state school then they should have that right.

    So as I said, I'm for a state where religion is less influential in the lives of those who don't wish for it, but absolute secularism? No thanks.
    Broadly my views too
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    (Original post by tieyourmotherdown)
    It seems contradictory to say that inciting hatred on the basis of homosexuality is wrong or race, yet doing it on the basis of religion is OK (If that's what you're getting at, removing religion from the 'Inciting [Insert here] hatred' laws).
    It's not contradictory at all. It's scientifically supported that homosexuality and race are inherent; whereas, religion is a choice.

    Don't you think it's contradictory to protect religious beliefs against hatred, but not political beliefs? Both are simply belief systems at their core.
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    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    It's not contradictory at all. It's scientifically supported that homosexuality and race are inherent; whereas, religion is a choice.

    Don't you think it's contradictory to protect religious beliefs against hatred, but not political beliefs? Both are simply belief systems at their core.
    You do raise a good point actually, in the likening of political beliefs to religious beliefs. The trouble I have is that there is an unbelievable amount of resentment towards religious people in this country at the moment, particularly towards Muslims, and I suppose I fear that were it legal to incite hatred on the basis of religion some religious people would really suffer because of it. I think we ought to look at it more pragmatically and say that whilst religion is technically a choice, people shouldn't feel intimidated by others because of their choice, and prohbiting inciting hatred/violence does help prevent this.

    I suppose equally then I support prohibiting inciting hatred/violence on the grounds of political beliefs. Some people hold their political beliefs as close to them as religious people do their beliefs, so I don't see why not just cover both. Either way I wouldn't repeal the banning of inciting hatred upon religious beliefs, I just don't think it's right.
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    I agree on some points.

    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    - Disestablishment of the Church of England.
    Agree. I don't think it's a massive problem, it doesn't really mean much in practice. But ideally the state would be completely neutral and not tied to any religion.

    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    - Complete removal of religion from governance (Lords Spiritual, Queen being Head of the C of E, and so on).
    I agree with removing the Lords Spiritual. I wouldn't bar members of religious organisations from being lords, but I don't think lordships should specifically be reserved for them.

    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    - Removal of religion from hatred laws.
    I agree. I don't see why religion should be a special case. Either get rid of them or replace them with general hatred laws that apply equally to other ideologies, belief systems, lifestyle choices, interests, etc. E.g. if it's illegal to say "All Christians should die", it should also be illegal to say "All Aston Villa fans should die".

    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    - Banning of faith schools.
    I think parents should be give some freedom to choose how their children are educated. I wouldn't ban faith schools. But perhaps remove any state funding. They'd be private schools only.

    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    - Providing no social, political, or physical privileges to religion.
    Yep. One thing I disagree with is how Sikhs are allowed to carry around a knife provided they also wear the other religious items. There are plenty of other innocent and personal reasons for someone wanting to carry a knife around, so I don't see why Sikhs should be a special case.

    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    - No requirement to provide places of worship to theists. Planning permission would be treated completely equally to everything else.
    Yep. Although I think certain places of worship should have some special protection because they are historical buildings. Also they are non-profit organisations, so I guess that might be relevant to planning permission.
 
 
 
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