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UK schools 'fall behind Estonia and Slovenia', says OECD Watch

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    UK schoolchildren today plummeted down a major international league table after being outscored by pupils from countries including Estonia, Lichtenstein and Slovenia.

    Teenagers slumped in worldwide rankings comparing standards of reading, mathematics and science in 65 developed nations.

    Figures published by the respected Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development showed the UK fell from 17th to 25th for reading and from 24th to 28th for maths.

    In science, pupils dropped from 14th when results were last published in 2007 to 16th this year.

    The results will cast a major shadow over Labour’s education record and spark claims that a £30 billion rise in spending under the last Government failed to produce decent results.

    Andreas Schleicher, from the OECD’s education directorate, said overall scores achieved by UK pupils were “stagnant at best, whereas many other countries have seen quite significant improvements”.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...says-OECD.html


    :mad:


    Nice bit of statistics about Labour's time in power... education has become more ****. Good to know.


    The coalition needs to come up with some bloody good education reforms to reverse this trend. Perhaps allowing more grammar schools?
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    What an offensive headline...
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    UK schoolchildren today plummeted down a major international league table after being outscored by pupils from countries including Estonia, Lichtenstein and Slovenia.

    Teenagers slumped in worldwide rankings comparing standards of reading, mathematics and science in 65 developed nations.

    Figures published by the respected Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development showed the UK fell from 17th to 25th for reading and from 24th to 28th for maths.

    In science, pupils dropped from 14th when results were last published in 2007 to 16th this year.

    The results will cast a major shadow over Labour’s education record and spark claims that a £30 billion rise in spending under the last Government failed to produce decent results.

    Andreas Schleicher, from the OECD’s education directorate, said overall scores achieved by UK pupils were “stagnant at best, whereas many other countries have seen quite significant improvements”.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...says-OECD.html


    :mad:


    Nice bit of statistics about Labour's time in power... education has become more ****. Good to know.


    The coalition needs to come up with some bloody good education reforms to reverse this trend. Perhaps allowing more grammar schools?
    Sorry, but why would grammar schools really help ? All they would do is cause an apartheid between the middle and working classes, and essentially create institutions for 'dumb kids' and 'smart kids' as occurred when in my area. In fact, where my school was, this was quite evident. Most of the people that went to my grammar school came from middle class families, had either been privately tutored or helped by their parents and this was quite stark in comparison to the mainly working class population in the comprehensive just down the road from it. Sure, you will get better statistics, but is that really a society that is desirable ?

    Secondly, the real issue isnt concerning schools but pupils themselves. I spent most of last year teaching at one of the worst inner city comps in London, and I can tell you that despite the teachers working damn hard, if the kids there cant be arsed with their education, there is little you can do to prevent it. Most of them come from working class homes, have uneducated parents and are not really encouraged to do anything, unlike their middle income counterparts. This also has little to do with Labour party education- especially considering under the conservatives there was little difference (that says, my mother who is a teacher did feel that education under John Major was the ideal system). I personally feel that the tiered system might be nice for stats in the short run, but it will fragment society in the long run, create an elitist system that (desired or not) will be very much income-based, and will basically be creating institutions of stupid people and clever people.
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    Isnt it strange how when the tories were in for 18 years we had the best education but as soon as labour came in we had the worst education!
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    (Original post by Phantom_X)
    I personally feel that the tiered system might be nice for stats in the short run, but it will fragment society in the long run, create an elitist system that (desired or not) will be very much income-based, and will basically be creating institutions of stupid people and clever people.
    I have never understood these arguments against educational elitism. I personally think some academic institutions should be elitist in that they only accept the most brightest students. This is why I supported the assisted places scheme which Labour abolished.

    I think government should help send the brightest students from poor background to the best educational institutions such as public schools. This is why I support grammar schools - academic selection is a good thing.

    Academic selection in schools, in my view, will lead to a situation where those academically bright and those selective schools will be in a great position which means the government can focus entirely on helping the less bright maybe through technical colleges, vocational training... I am sure we can learn from countries like Finland and Sweden about helping the less academically bright.
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    (Original post by Phantom_X)
    Sorry, but why would grammar schools really help ? All they would do is cause an apartheid between the middle and working classes, and essentially create institutions for 'dumb kids' and 'smart kids' as occurred when in my area. In fact, where my school was, this was quite evident. Most of the people that went to my grammar school came from middle class families, had either been privately tutored or helped by their parents and this was quite stark in comparison to the mainly working class population in the comprehensive just down the road from it. Sure, you will get better statistics, but is that really a society that is desirable ?

    Secondly, the real issue isnt concerning schools but pupils themselves. I spent most of last year teaching at one of the worst inner city comps in London, and I can tell you that despite the teachers working damn hard, if the kids there cant be arsed with their education, there is little you can do to prevent it. Most of them come from working class homes, have uneducated parents and are not really encouraged to do anything, unlike their middle income counterparts. This also has little to do with Labour party education- especially considering under the conservatives there was little difference (that says, my mother who is a teacher did feel that education under John Major was the ideal system). I personally feel that the tiered system might be nice for stats in the short run, but it will fragment society in the long run, create an elitist system that (desired or not) will be very much income-based, and will basically be creating institutions of stupid people and clever people.
    I don't see why it should be based on income. I don't come from a very rich background and would have loved to be able to attend a gramma school.
    It's moving the smart people away from those who would otherwise hold them back, to allow them to achieve.
    It is the ultimate form of social mobility. If you're intelligent, you can move up in the world, as opposed to a system without grammar schools that condemns anyone unable to pay for a private education to be held back to some extent by those around them.
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    Surprise surprise, nobody is considering that maybe a few other countries' educational standards have just got markedly better, rather than ours getting worse...
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    (Original post by Aack)
    What an offensive headline...
    It is, isn't it!
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    I have never understood these arguments against educational elitism. I personally think some academic institutions should be elitist in that they only accept the most brightest students. This is why I supported the assisted places scheme which Labour abolished.

    I think government should help send the brightest students from poor background to the best educational institutions such as public schools. This is why I support grammar schools - academic selection is a good thing.

    Academic selection in schools, in my view, will lead to a situation where those academically bright and those selective schools will be in a great position which means the government can focus entirely on helping the less bright maybe through technical colleges, vocational training... I am sure we can learn from countries like Finland and Sweden about helping the less academically bright.

    (Original post by TShadow383)
    I don't see why it should be based on income. I don't come from a very rich background and would have loved to be able to attend a gramma school.
    It's moving the smart people away from those who would otherwise hold them back, to allow them to achieve.
    It is the ultimate form of social mobility. If you're intelligent, you can move up in the world, as opposed to a system without grammar schools that condemns anyone unable to pay for a private education to be held back to some extent by those around them.
    The problem with grammar schools is that the majority of kids who attend tend to be from middle class backgrounds, who have had the extra tuition or extra help at better primary schools to get them into the schools in the first place. Money speaks more than intelligence these days, which is just wrong.
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    Why is it such an outrage that Estonian and Slovenian kids are performing better? Both are developed nations, there's clearly no reason why they wouldn't. Of course it's the whole "GOD WE'RE WORSE THAN EASTERN EUROPE" mentality, but in reality, so what?

    That said I'm not plased our standards aren't improving, just disappointed that it's made out to be an outrage because we're behind a few Eastern European countries.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    I have never understood these arguments against educational elitism. I personally think some academic institutions should be elitist in that they only accept the most brightest students. This is why I supported the assisted places scheme which Labour abolished.

    I think government should help send the brightest students from poor background to the best educational institutions such as public schools. This is why I support grammar schools - academic selection is a good thing.

    Academic selection in schools, in my view, will lead to a situation where those academically bright and those selective schools will be in a great position which means the government can focus entirely on helping the less bright maybe through technical colleges, vocational training... I am sure we can learn from countries like Finland and Sweden about helping the less academically bright.
    Yes, but not all people who go to comperehensives/non grammar schools are stupid.
    They just do not get an education which is as good.
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    or maybe other countires have got better and we havn't moved, i do find it rich of toires moaning and going look look they are bad, when their actions now are only going to make it worst, the way they want to change teacher training is crazy and we will have even smaller number of teachers

    we have all come through a education system under labour, do you feel hard done by, do you feel like you are undereducated, before we all jump on this, education in this country is still pretty good

    also the money labour put in was needed, do we want to go back to them under funded tory days

    the issue is the gap between rich and poor, the gaps between races, and between girls and boys

    how about being big boys and girls for once and not blaming the other party, and get off theirs ass and do something about it, its a tory government so it will only be made worst
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    (Original post by Barden)
    Surprise surprise, nobody is considering that maybe a few other countries' educational standards have just got markedly better, rather than ours getting worse...
    I was just about to say that.
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    Headline made me lol.

    I'm a little surprised. For some reason I thought the UK was doing quite well. Well according to surveys I've seen. Hmm.
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    (Original post by Xx.MissEG.xX)
    Yes, but not all people who go to comperehensives/non grammar schools are stupid.
    They just do not get an education which is as good.
    I quote myself:

    "I think government should help send the brightest students from poor background to the best educational institutions such as public schools"
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    Building more grammar schools won't do much since it will mainly be families who can afford to send their children to private tutoring for admissions tests - would be better if they were tested on information that everybody can revise and practise rather than only the wealthier families.

    My opinion - meh.
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    obviously. We get bilingual European state school students who can get A's after 3 months of the course. Then we have most english who can't fit a sentence together
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    (Original post by Barden)
    Surprise surprise, nobody is considering that maybe a few other countries' educational standards have just got markedly better, rather than ours getting worse...
    If that is the case, shouldn't we be asking ourselves why our education system hasn't improved at the same rate?
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    I quote myself:

    "I think government should help send the brightest students from poor background to the best educational institutions such as public schools"
    Yes, but that does not happen, does it? I don't think grammar schools are the best idea, pupils in non-grammar schools often get better results.
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    (Original post by psychocustard)
    The problem with grammar schools is that the majority of kids who attend tend to be from middle class backgrounds, who have had the extra tuition or extra help at better primary schools to get them into the schools in the first place. Money speaks more than intelligence these days, which is just wrong.

    TBF, the 11+ exam is basically an IQ test - no amount of tutoring will help you pass it (you have to get high marks across the board, so even if one is tutored for the maths paper, one still needs to be able to pass verbal and non-verbal reasoning to a high standard)

    In fact it is beneficial to have been at a state primary before hand:

    I was at a private school, and had to do extra maths classes after-school for about 3 months because our curriculum was different (being geared towards the 13+ common entrance 'n' all).


    I'm a pretty die-hard Labourite, but even I am a Grammar School fan-boy.
 
 
 
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