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UCL toff on BBC saying tuition fee rise was GOOD! Watch

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    let this thread die already...
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    I agree with him. It is the best proposal, unless you are going to massively cut the number of non-private universities. You can't have world class unis, that 50% of young people attend, and have them significantly state funded, it would simply cost too much. Less unis or more funding from the attendees, those are the only choices if the quality of education is to remain the same.

    The key point is also the word access. It won't affect access at all, it may affect peoples decisions as to whether to go to uni or not, but with student loans it will still be accessible to all who want it.
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    To be fair, I agree with the general gist of what he is saying.
    Also, even if you don't agree with it, why shouldn't he have those opinions?

    Finally, in a time when people are so emotional about this, it would be prudent for him to tone down the comments slightly, but ofcourse the news want to provoke a response.
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    (Original post by blue_shift86)
    Anyone watch the BBC news this evening?

    I was FUMING! He had the audacity to say that he had researched the proposals and that it's the best option.

    FUTHERmore, he adds "i 100% guarantee it wont affect access to higher education".

    I was outraged. He sounded like an upper to middle class chap and frankly he was insulting my intelligence. I am working class and recently graduated from UCL and i can "guarantee" him that if the fees were £9000 a year, i'd not have gone to university. Many of my fellow *real* working class poor people share this view. This toff on TV has nothing that qualifies him to say how we REAL working class people will make our further education decisions.

    Discuss.
    That'll destroy any accusations that the BBC have a "left-wing bias".
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      (Original post by blue_shift86)
      Anyone watch the BBC news this evening?

      I was FUMING! He had the audacity to say that he had researched the proposals and that it's the best option.

      FUTHERmore, he adds "i 100% guarantee it wont affect access to higher education".

      I was outraged. He sounded like an upper to middle class chap and frankly he was insulting my intelligence. I am working class and recently graduated from UCL and i can "guarantee" him that if the fees were £9000 a year, i'd not have gone to university. Many of my fellow *real* working class poor people share this view. This toff on TV has nothing that qualifies him to say how we REAL working class people will make our further education decisions.

      Discuss.
      Not good per se, but the proposals put forward by Browne are not as bad as certain individuals make it out to be.
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      why are people acting as if all fees will immediately be £9000? not that I am defending higher fees as I oppose them, but from the way people have been reacting, you would have thought that they conjunctively made it easier for fees to be paid back?!
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      I don't understand why you wouldn't have gone? They'll still give you a student loan.
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      it is the best option. stop being a punk rocker.
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      Where do you propose the money comes from? It can't come from the government any more because they have no money left, unless they either raise taxes or take it from other places like the NHS.

      Also, with the loans system there is no one being prevented from going to university. The people saying "I can't afford it" are misinformed.
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      I consider these changes to be inevitable. Labour commissioned the Browne review last year, presumably because they wanted to look at ways to raise the cost of tuition. Had they won the election, I think something very similar would be happening right now. It is a shame Labour feel the need to use this as a way to score political points and insight an anti-tory feeling. It is irresponsible when they ought to be looking at the proposals and suggesting adjustments they feel could be made.
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        (Original post by AidanLunn)
        That'll destroy any accusations that the BBC have a "left-wing bias".
        Nope, they are portraying that this new system is set to divide the rich from the poor. In other words viewers will be against what this man says; therefore be against the proposals, so if anything it shows evidence for the BBC's left-wing bias.
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        (Original post by adam_zed)
        why are people acting as if all fees will immediately be £9000? not that I am defending higher fees as I oppose them, but from the way people have been reacting, you would have thought that they conjunctively made it easier for fees to be paid back?!
        cos they're voting on it tomorrow maybe? And if it passes then we will have 9k a year fees? Just a thought....
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        (Original post by TableChair)
        I don't understand why you wouldn't have gone? They'll still give you a student loan.
        Because 9k a year is a lot of money and i wouldn't want to be saddled with that amount of debt even if you'd only start paying it back when you earn over 21k. It's not free money. You WILL have to pay it back when you start working. When you think about mortgages, holidays, etc, you'll always be reminded that you have to pay of this frickin 27k! That's why i'd not go to uni. I'd not want that amount of debt to my name!

        Besides there's no guarantee of getting a job to pay it off, so if we were currently on 9k a year fees i'd currently be saddled with 27k of debt, AND i'd be jobless for the forseeable future because the job market is dead and it'd be nigh impossible to get a job.
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        (Original post by doggyfizzel)
        I agree with him. It is the best proposal, unless you are going to massively cut the number of non-private universities. You can't have world class unis, that 50% of young people attend, and have them significantly state funded, it would simply cost too much. Less unis or more funding from the attendees, those are the only choices if the quality of education is to remain the same.

        The key point is also the word access. It won't affect access at all, it may affect peoples decisions as to whether to go to uni or not, but with student loans it will still be accessible to all who want it.
        This is one argument that I still don't think holds any water. How can you cut a universities budget by 40% and expect it to compete better abroad? And that 40% cut is not replaced by increasing fees. It would make sense if fees were increased with an increase in funding, then one could argue that 'our universities will get better and still be able to compete' but universities which were already underfunded are now going to be even more so. Yet they'll be better off?

        And just to put another spanner into that argument, the countries we're competing against are increasing their higher education budget. So they get better we get worse and yet this policy will make our universities 'world class'?
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        (Original post by blue_shift86)
        Because 9k a year is a lot of money and i wouldn't want to be saddled with that amount of debt even if you'd only start paying it back when you earn over 21k. It's not free money. You WILL have to pay it back when you start working. When you think about mortgages, holidays, etc, you'll always be reminded that you have to pay of this frickin 27k! That's why i'd not go to uni. I'd not want that amount of debt to my name!

        Besides there's no guarantee of getting a job to pay it off, so if we were currently on 9k a year fees i'd currently be saddled with 27k of debt, AND i'd be jobless for the forseeable future because the job market is dead and it'd be nigh impossible to get a job.
        If you remain jobless after you graduate it doesn't matter because you don't pay any of it back, and it gets wiped after 30 years even if you haven't paid it all back.
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        (Original post by im so academic)
        Nope, they are portraying that this new system is set to divide the rich from the poor. In other words viewers will be against what this man says; therefore be against the proposals, so if anything it shows evidence for the BBC's left-wing bias.
        What they've just said is not a left wing bias. It's the truth.

        If the BBC are that left-wing (judging by how many people and papers claim they are), don't you think they would have been seriously reprimanded by Ofcom a long time ago?

        Two of their senior political staff are very Conservative. Andrew Neil was a personal adviser to Mrs Thatcher. Nick Robinson was the head of the Young Conservatives. I'd think that they would both put quite a right-wing spin on many stories, considering how close they were to the Tories.

        Even Jeremy Clarkson is a very outspoken Conservative supporter, amongst other examples.

        What was that about a left-wing bias?
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        (Original post by blue_shift86)
        Anyone watch the BBC news this evening?

        I was FUMING! He had the audacity to say that he had researched the proposals and that it's the best option.

        FUTHERmore, he adds "i 100% guarantee it wont affect access to higher education".

        I was outraged. He sounded like an upper to middle class chap and frankly he was insulting my intelligence. I am working class and recently graduated from UCL and i can "guarantee" him that if the fees were £9000 a year, i'd not have gone to university. Many of my fellow *real* working class poor people share this view. This toff on TV has nothing that qualifies him to say how we REAL working class people will make our further education decisions.

        Discuss.
        For someone who went to UCL , Id expect your arguement to be a lot more profound, or at least more coherent.

        I dont support a rise in fees (albeit, i support the rise more than i do the 80% budget cut) but, you dont pay the fees upfront, and they arent demanded of you as soon as you graduate. They are taken incrementally, at a reasonable rate, once you earn a middle class salary of 21,000.

        Now as a graduate of UCL, as long as you had a 2.1, you stand quite well in the job market. It no longer matters that you came from a working class background, as you now have the ability to get a good job with a nice starting salary. The fact that you may have not grown up in a mansion is besides the issue- after all your parents dont account for your future success.
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        (Original post by blue_shift86)
        Because 9k a year is a lot of money and i wouldn't want to be saddled with that amount of debt even if you'd only start paying it back when you earn over 21k. It's not free money. You WILL have to pay it back when you start working. When you think about mortgages, holidays, etc, you'll always be reminded that you have to pay of this frickin 27k! That's why i'd not go to uni. I'd not want that amount of debt to my name!

        Besides there's no guarantee of getting a job to pay it off, so if we were currently on 9k a year fees i'd currently be saddled with 27k of debt, AND i'd be jobless for the forseeable future because the job market is dead and it'd be nigh impossible to get a job.

        Which is the whole point of student loans. You only pay it off when you earn over a certain amount so you are not saddled with debt, you only pay it back when you can afford to. It really isn't the same as a normal debt, it's more like a small additional tax when you earn over a certain amount, an amount that is much harder to achieve without a degree. From a financial standpoint it makes much more sense for the ordinary person, assuming they're intelligent enough, to go to university. It would be a ridiculous decision to not go to university if the fees were raised to 9k if you would have done were they still 3k.

        Your final paragraph is pointless, you would not be saddled with debt if you were unemployed. And the job market is not dead, it's not nigh on impossible to get a job, it's just harder than it was a few years ago.
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        (Original post by blue_shift86)
        cos they're voting on it tomorrow maybe? And if it passes then we will have 9k a year fees? Just a thought....
        Well I meant immediately as in straight after it takes effect? In deliberately pretending to misunderstand my post you feel you have got a way with not addressing any of my point.

        Wow, yes a neg constitutes a valid counter point.
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        (Original post by blue_shift86)
        cos they're voting on it tomorrow maybe? And if it passes then we will have 9k a year fees? Just a thought....
        Unis can charge up to £9k a year. There needs to be justification to do this so only the best course at the best unis, should, hit this figure right away.

        Its pretty easy to pay that back and still be better off. If going to uni only insured you you eared £1K a year more than you would have without a degree, over a working life 21 to 70 even living in London you would break even. The idea it is impossible to get a job is also nonsense, its a short term problem, and is still possible.
       
       
       
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