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    Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg branded opponents of tuition fee hikes "dreamers" today as tension mounted ahead of a crunch vote in the House of Commons.

    With speculation that up to half of his MPs could rebel against the Government this evening, Mr Clegg insisted he was not ashamed of backing the plans because he was dealing with "the way the world is".
    Clearly, this is not the only way to go. Student Lib Dems must be a dieing breed by now. Liberal values are no longer at the heart of government. Clegg should be ashamed and quite rightly so branded a liar and failed leader. Vince Cable that only "father Christmas could satisfy demands for expensive policies" well by defying and deluding the electorate they've clearly shown their true colours. The Conservatives offered some sort of change but it wasn't for the better of the general public, the cuts are not been progressive but rather regressive and will send the country back 100 years.
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    (Original post by Low Profile)
    Clearly, this is not the only way to go. Student Lib Dems must be a dieing breed by now. Liberal values are no longer at the heart of government. Clegg should be ashamed and quite rightly so branded a liar and failed leader. Vince Cable that only "father Christmas could satisfy demands for expensive policies" well by defying and deluding the electorate they've clearly shown their true colours. The Conservatives offered some sort of change but it wasn't for the better of the general public, the cuts are not been progressive but rather regressive and will send the country back 100 years.
    How exactly?
    Labour are backing the graduate tax, which is an even worse system. With the student loan, at least you stand a chance of paying it off fairly quickly, and if not, it'll expire after 30 years anyway.
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    (Original post by TShadow383)
    How exactly?
    Labour are backing the graduate tax, which is an even worse system. With the student loan, at least you stand a chance of paying it off fairly quickly, and if not, it'll expire after 30 years anyway.
    Labour are not backing a worse system, in fact the system has greater sustainability for the long run and has a greater of amount of pledged "fairness" due to the fact that they would not have gone against prescribed benefits towards education such as EMA. What sort of chance do you have on living if you are stuck with a 30,000 debt and a job which is hardly top rate? This is where it is not fair, those which go into a highly paid job sector pay off the debt relatively quicker.
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    (Original post by Low Profile)
    What sort of chance do you have on living if you are stuck with a 30,000 debt and a job which is hardly top rate? This is where it is not fair, those which go into a highly paid job sector pay off the debt relatively quicker.
    People who earn more money pay off debt quicker?!?! :eek:

    And of course if you go into a low paid job sector (<£21,000/year), you don't have to pay off the debt at all.
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    (Original post by Potally_Tissed)

    And of course if you go into a low paid job sector (<£21,000/year), you don't have to pay off the debt at all.
    Well that's great. I'll work at McDonalds and live in a council flat.

    [guy who gave me neg, I feel for you bro]
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    (Original post by Low Profile)
    Clearly, this is not the only way to go. Student Lib Dems must be a dieing breed by now. Liberal values are no longer at the heart of government. Clegg should be ashamed and quite rightly so branded a liar and failed leader. Vince Cable that only "father Christmas could satisfy demands for expensive policies" well by defying and deluding the electorate they've clearly shown their true colours. The Conservatives offered some sort of change but it wasn't for the better of the general public, the cuts are not been progressive but rather regressive and will send the country back 100 years.
    What a complete load of bull. We have a massive deficit that needs to be cut, so cuts have to be made. What exactly are you proposing here? What would your system be a mass amount of tax rises followed by no cuts?

    Set the country back 100 years? The hell are you even talking about. You don't even have any genuine criticism just pure ideological bull.
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    ... but I'm not the only one.

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    (Original post by Low Profile)
    Clearly, this is not the only way to go. Student Lib Dems must be a dieing breed by now. Liberal values are no longer at the heart of government. Clegg should be ashamed and quite rightly so branded a liar and failed leader. Vince Cable that only "father Christmas could satisfy demands for expensive policies" well by defying and deluding the electorate they've clearly shown their true colours. The Conservatives offered some sort of change but it wasn't for the better of the general public, the cuts are not been progressive but rather regressive and will send the country back 100 years.
    What on earth? They're going to take away our cars? Well, I can't support this policy now!

    The highlighted bit is just meaningless 'rhetoric', as is most of the rest. And surely by your logic, the 'true colours' of every party are exactly the same, as they have all lied? How do you choose who to vote for?

    At most, the cuts will set us back 5 years in public spending - from before labours splurges. They're not going to be very nice, no, but they're also not affordable.

    Fyi, I'm a student lib dem, and all parties behave the same, but I voted for the manifesto which fitted me best, and Cleggs contortionist backtracking changes very little of that for me.
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    (Original post by Low Profile)
    Labour are not backing a worse system, in fact the system has greater sustainability for the long run and has a greater of amount of pledged "fairness" due to the fact that they would not have gone against prescribed benefits towards education such as EMA. What sort of chance do you have on living if you are stuck with a 30,000 debt and a job which is hardly top rate? This is where it is not fair, those which go into a highly paid job sector pay off the debt relatively quicker.
    Well if you earn less than £21k, you've failed as a graduate, but at least you won't have to pay back any student loan money.
    If you earn £25k you have to pay back £360 a year
    If you earn £30k you have to pay back £810 a year
    If you earn £50k you have to pay back £2610 a year
    How is this hard to understand?
    It seems that those who are most vocally against the fees rises have the least idea of how the system will work.
    The graduate tax will hit people just as hard, but it will hit them for their entire working life, regardless of success.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    What exactly are you proposing here? What would your system be a mass amount of tax rises followed by no cuts?
    I propose cuts in different sectors of government funding. Clearly, if you hinder the main assets of a country the country begins to regress.
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    (Original post by Low Profile)
    I propose cuts in different sectors of government funding. Clearly, if you hinder the main assets of a country the country begins to regress.
    Such as? If your cuts involve something idiotic like getting rid of trident/slashing defence don't bother replying
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Such as? If your cuts involve something idiotic like getting rid of trident/slashing defence don't bother replying
    Give me one valid reason why Trident shouldn't be slashed? oh no terrorists everywhere with there nukes, we've all gonna die ahhh.
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    (Original post by Low Profile)
    Give me one valid reason why Trident shouldn't be slashed? oh no terrorists everywhere with there nukes, we've all gonna die ahhh.
    Ok so tell me what the threats to Britain will be in the next 20 years. Oh while your at it I'll have the lottery numbers to. Thanks
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    I am completely fed up. More than a third of my income goes on taxes and has done so since the day I started work.. This should be ample to pay for education/university/ health. Education and university have never been free- the taxpayer has paid. As a taxpayer I dont want my money spent on bankers I want it spent on education for my children and their children. The treasury is incompetent and picks on the most vulnerable to hit.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Ok so tell me what the threats to Britain will be in the next 20 years. Oh while your at it I'll have the lottery numbers to. Thanks
    oh no!! hypothetical threats, what are we going to do with all this scaremongering?
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    (Original post by Low Profile)
    oh no!! hypothetical threats, what are we going to do with all this scaremongering?

    No its not scaremongering its just called being a realist. Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons. North Korea is as unstable as ever and if their missile program continues will likely be able to hit Europe pretty soon if they can't already. Hardly the time to get rid of our deterrent
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    Lib Dems will haemorrhage seats come next election. It will be fun to watch.

    I'll be surprised if Clegg manages to hold onto his.

    With each passing day Clegg simply serves alienate himself further and further from the students who make up a key portion of Lib Dem voters.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    What a complete load of bull. We have a massive deficit that needs to be cut, so cuts have to be made. What exactly are you proposing here? What would your system be a mass amount of tax rises followed by no cuts?

    Set the country back 100 years? The hell are you even talking about. You don't even have any genuine criticism just pure ideological bull.
    Well...the fact that they're going to introduce education cuts will not save the country from it's economical fail. In terms of the financial situation - britain is ****ed either way.

    (Original post by TShadow383)
    Well if you earn less than £21k, you've failed as a graduate, but at least you won't have to pay back any student loan money.
    If you earn £25k you have to pay back £360 a year
    If you earn £30k you have to pay back £810 a year
    If you earn £50k you have to pay back £2610 a year
    How is this hard to understand?
    It seems that those who are most vocally against the fees rises have the least idea of how the system will work.
    The graduate tax will hit people just as hard, but it will hit them for their entire working life, regardless of success.
    Valid point. But it's not the only one that protesters are against. It's the fact that they're proposing the education cuts that will be the problem. Even if the unis can charge students more money, it still wont make up for the loss in funding - hence many unis will struggle and will have to cut back on extras - like refurbishing and upgrading and maybe even compromise on the hours lecturers work = hence students will end up paying more but receiving less.


    I also agree that they should be making the cuts elswhere, but definitley not in education. Trident being the best example.

    Also on taxes - in Britain we have REALLY HIGH taxes for what we get [ie. **** all.] We pay **** loads of money, and what does it get used for exactly?
    As I said above - britain is ****ed. Hence I can't wait to finish my degree and move to scandinavia, where the quality of life is better. Much better. And I know. I used to live there, before I had to move to this ****hole.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    No its not scaremongering its just called being a realist. Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons. North Korea is as unstable as ever and if their missile program continues will likely be able to hit Europe pretty soon if they can't already. Hardly the time to get rid of our deterrent
    Oh come off it! Do you really think the UK would be 1# on the list of countries to be nuked?? You're not a realist you are just a pro-empire, pro-sovereignty Tory.
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    (Original post by Low Profile)
    Clearly, this is not the only way to go. Student Lib Dems must be a dieing breed by now. Liberal values are no longer at the heart of government. Clegg should be ashamed and quite rightly so branded a liar and failed leader. Vince Cable that only "father Christmas could satisfy demands for expensive policies" well by defying and deluding the electorate they've clearly shown their true colours. The Conservatives offered some sort of change but it wasn't for the better of the general public, the cuts are not been progressive but rather regressive and will send the country back 100 years.
    People should realise that with growth then the threshold of £21,000 will actually be worth in 2016 about what £15,000 is now so realistically students will take on a larger debt with the same level threshold in comparison to salary intake.

    I love how Clegg has said this though to be perfectly honest. It was only a few years ago he pledged to scrap tuition fee's altogether, then before the election he pledged for no tuition fee rise and now he is backing the proposals.

    I wonder at what point he bought his blue coat and changed his political status on Facebook to conservative.

    Clegg is a complete hypocrite and unless the Liberal Democrats get someone to replace him who has strict allegiance to their policies then the Lib Dems will fail in the forthcoming elections for decades.

    The amount of loans to cover tuition fee's will make the deficit worse as less will be paid back meaning the taxpayers will have to subsidise more. It's absolutely shocking how many politicians have poor mathematics skills.
 
 
 
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