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Religion is a complete load of crap. watch

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    Anyone else SCARED by those who blindly follow a religion without ever really thinking freely and rationally? I am a strong atheist, and I just find people who follow a set of "rules" of a religion ignorant beyond belief. I am a logical person, and therefore I like to believe something based on EVIDENCE. Science is all about making a hypothesis and then providing evidence to either prove or disprove it, and the evidence for the theory of evolution is now so overwhelming I find it insulting when I meet someone who refuses to believe it due to their religious beliefs. People with religious beliefs have no evidence, and follow ONE book, which supposedly sets out gods will. There are books about unicorns and vampires, and the only argument religious people present to me is "You cant disprove god". You can't disprove vampires and unicorns, and indeed there is a vast amount of "evidence" in books to suggest their existence. This argument is an insult to anyone with an IQ above 40. When you have a debate with a religious person they also say that only a "higher being" could have made the universe, and say that something must have been around to cause the big bang. However this argument is flawed as ultimately someone must have created a "higher being" who then created the universe, and ultimately the creation of the universe is a question which science is alot closer to answering than religion which is in my opinion a cop out way of explaining how the universe was created.

    Just interested in people's opinions on religion on here really, having read the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins its an area which I would like to discuss.
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    It is a load of crap. Congratulations for realising it.
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    You do realise that many religious people believe in evolution? And who are you to say what they should or shouldn't believe in, there is no definite evidence to disprove the possibility of God. Anyway, I'm not going to rant.
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    People far smarter than you will ever be have believed in God, so the idea that to be thinking freely and rationally must instantly mean they take the same viewpoint as you is simply retarded. I also find it strange you have managed to meet any fundamentalists who deny the theory of evolution, as I have been to many churches and have yet to meet one. Were you by any chance raised in a religious household? I smell teen angst.
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    (Original post by aJohnsonsun)
    You do realise that many religious people believe in evolution? And who are you to say what they should or shouldn't believe in, there is no definite evidence to disprove the possibility of God. Anyway, I'm not going to rant.
    Well I wouldn't say too many actually can. I mean, for example, any Christian who believes in evolution is contradicting their scientific beliefs with their religious ones. And you are correct to say that there is no definite evidence to disprove God's existence, but logic is good enough for me personally.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    People far smarter than you will ever be have believed in God, so the idea that to be thinking freely and rationally must instantly mean they take the same viewpoint as you is simply retarded. I also find it strange you have managed to meet any fundamentalists who deny the theory of evolution, as I have been to many churches and have yet to meet one. Were you by any chance raised in a religious household? I smell teen angst.
    Creationism is rife in America more than it is in the UK that is true, however that does not mean it is not staggeringly ignorant, and I cannot come to terms with god being a rational explanation for the creation of the universe, there is ABSOLUTELY no evidence at all for this, and therefore I cannot understand how believing in god can ever be rational. Science cannot answer how the universe was created, but that does not mean that god is the only logical explanation, it means we just don't know yet why the universe came into being.
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    (Original post by HSG1992)
    Well I wouldn't say too many actually can. I mean, for example, any Christian who believes in evolution is contradicting their scientific beliefs with their religious ones. And you are correct to say that there is no definite evidence to disprove God's existence, but logic is good enough for me personally.
    I know alot of Christians who believe in evolution, infact every single Christian I know does. Many believe that that God used evolution to create the entire universe.
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGSN7...eature=related
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    Evolution explains the development of life once it has been 'created'. There is no scientific theory which explains the creation/ origin of life with clear evidence.
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    I am also a strong atheist, but your post is almost hypocritical. What your post read to me was as a summary of the God Delusion by Dawkins. Therefore, your views, whilst not based on this book, use this book as an evidence and follow closely the criticism that Dawkins presents - is this not reminiescent of a religious activity to you? Religion is not simply the belief in God, but the following of a Ethos and morals. To literal meanings in religion are all but eradicated in modern society - for a closer example look towards Buddhism.

    Richard Dawkins is a poor excuse for a social scientist, and whilst some of his book (such as the selfish gene) are informative and accessible, The God Delusion is a prejudice and stagnant example of anti-monotheism.

    To criticise religion, you need to be prepared to understand it, and be specific - every religion is different and cannot be tarred with the same brush. The best critic for religion is the person who knows it inside out - the theologist.

    Lastly, you should allow people to have faith, if it helps them to live a better, more fulfilled life, then who are we to criticise. Speak to any modern person who follows a religion, and you will probably be surprised by their reasons and method of following. Media reports only on the extremes of religion, not the vast majority who are sensible, objective citizens. How much better are you then those who preach about their religion, if you preach about atheism?
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    (Original post by aJohnsonsun)
    I know alot of Christians who believe in evolution, infact every single Christian I know does. Many believe that that God used evolution to create the entire universe.
    And God said, "Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the firmament of the heavens." 21 So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

    That seems very woolly to me (typical of religion). To say "created" is argubly an opposing belief to evolution.
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    We are all atheists. When you understand why you dismiss all other possible gods, then you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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    (Original post by Seefour)
    Evolution explains the development of life once it has been 'created'. There is no scientific theory which explains the creation/ origin of life with clear evidence.
    Not yet, but it's certainly well on the way to becoming a fully formed theory (see: abiogenesis)
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    (Original post by giga_grif)
    Creationism is rife in America more than it is in the UK that is true, however that does not mean it is not staggeringly ignorant, and I cannot come to terms with god being a rational explanation for the creation of the universe, there is ABSOLUTELY no evidence at all for this, and therefore I cannot understand how believing in god can ever be rational. Science cannot answer how the universe was created, but that does not mean that god is the only logical explanation, it means we just don't know yet why the universe came into being.
    You should do some research into the history of conflict between science and religion, it is a relatively new conflict contrived, exacerbated, and perpetuated by people like Richard Dawkins to try and add legitimacy to their own personal atheist campaigns. The main reason America has far more creationists is because they decided to be creationists post-WWII. They decided to become creationists because they saw a direct link between Hitler's eugenics policies and the theory of evolution. There was of course a creationist movement prior to this. I don't really understand how this has an affect on your life though? You are in Hull, what do you care if someone in Tennessee doesn't think evolution happened?

    Most religious people do not primarily look to God for an explanation of how the universe was created. You will also find that religion is almost always a personal thing for the believer, and their evidence is more of a feeling or an experience they have had. This is of course no use to you because it is as unquantifiable as it is unprovable, but the fact they are willing to spend so much of their lives in worship because of this feeling should quantify for you how strong it is for them.
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    (Original post by giga_grif)
    Anyone else SCARED by those who blindly follow a religion without ever really thinking freely and rationally?
    There are more things in heaven and earth, young fellow, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

    People with religious beliefs have no evidence, and follow ONE book, which supposedly sets out gods will.
    Er, no. Religious scripture varies massively from religion to religion. Even our familiar Christian faith has numerous books within its Biblical canon and far, far more besides. Moreover, in most religions, scripture is only of indirect significance.

    When you have a debate with a religious person they also say that only a "higher being" could have made the universe, and say that something must have been around to cause the big bang. However this argument is flawed as ultimately someone must have created a "higher being" who then created the universe
    You've missed the point of the Cosmological argument. It starts from the premise that the Universe was created at some point - which is indeed also current scientific orthodoxy. God, however, necessarily exists outside of the conception of time: he does not have a creator because he has always been.

    Yes, it can be argued that causality does not apply to the Universe at large. If so, fair enough.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    You should do some research into the history of conflict between science and religion, it is a relatively new conflict contrived, exacerbated, and perpetuated by people like Richard Dawkins to try and add legitimacy to their own personal atheist campaigns. The main reason America has far more creationists is because they decided to be creationists post-WWII. They decided to become creationists because they saw a direct link between Hitler's eugenics policies and the theory of evolution. There was of course a creationist movement prior to this. I don't really understand how this has an affect on your life though? You are in Hull, what do you care if someone in Tennessee doesn't think evolution happened?

    Most religious people do not primarily look to God for an explanation of how the universe was created. You will also find that religion is almost always a personal thing for the believer, and their evidence is more of a feeling or an experience they have had. This is of course no use to you because it is as unquantifiable as it is unprovable, but the fact they are willing to spend so much of their lives in worship because of this feeling should quantify for you how strong it is for them.
    What I cannot understand is why religion is the one aspect of life which should NEVER be scrutinised, when it is something which is based upon no evidence whatsoever. If I told you that I believed that unicorns existed you would no doubt scrutinise and ridicule my beliefs, but just because it is someones religious beliefs you believe that I am in the wrong to scrutinise something which is inherently illogical.
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    (Original post by spasmos)
    I am also a strong atheist, but your post is almost hypocritical. What your post read to me was as a summary of the God Delusion by Dawkins. Therefore, your views, whilst not based on this book, use this book as an evidence and follow closely the criticism that Dawkins presents - is this not reminiescent of a religious activity to you? Religion is not simply the belief in God, but the following of a Ethos and morals. To literal meanings in religion are all but eradicated in modern society - for a closer example look towards Buddhism.

    Richard Dawkins is a poor excuse for a social scientist, and whilst some of his book (such as the selfish gene) are informative and accessible, The God Delusion is a prejudice and stagnant example of anti-monotheism.

    To criticise religion, you need to be prepared to understand it, and be specific - every religion is different and cannot be tarred with the same brush. The best critic for religion is the person who knows it inside out - the theologist.

    Lastly, you should allow people to have faith, if it helps them to live a better, more fulfilled life, then who are we to criticise. Speak to any modern person who follows a religion, and you will probably be surprised by their reasons and method of following. Media reports only on the extremes of religion, not the vast majority who are sensible, objective citizens. How much better are you then those who preach about their religion, if you preach about atheism?

    I may disagree with you about whether God exists or not, but it really is a pleasure to see someone on here who can manage to be atheist without using their lack of beliefs to prop up their own ego. A lot of people in the philosophy department at Leeds are atheist and they too strongly dislike both Dawkins arguments and his style. It is a shame many people who are partially atheist or agnostic pick up his book, which tells them they are rational if they go along with what he is saying, do not apply any logic to his arguments which are easy to defeat. I guess it should be obvious to most who are academically minded that the best book on atheism, with the best arguments, probably won't come in paperback form for a fiver.
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    (Original post by spasmos)
    I am also a strong atheist, but your post is almost hypocritical. What your post read to me was as a summary of the God Delusion by Dawkins. Therefore, your views, whilst not based on this book, use this book as an evidence and follow closely the criticism that Dawkins presents - is this not reminiescent of a religious activity to you? Religion is not simply the belief in God, but the following of a Ethos and morals. To literal meanings in religion are all but eradicated in modern society - for a closer example look towards Buddhism.

    Richard Dawkins is a poor excuse for a social scientist, and whilst some of his book (such as the selfish gene) are informative and accessible, The God Delusion is a prejudice and stagnant example of anti-monotheism.

    To criticise religion, you need to be prepared to understand it, and be specific - every religion is different and cannot be tarred with the same brush. The best critic for religion is the person who knows it inside out - the theologist.

    Lastly, you should allow people to have faith, if it helps them to live a better, more fulfilled life, then who are we to criticise. Speak to any modern person who follows a religion, and you will probably be surprised by their reasons and method of following. Media reports only on the extremes of religion, not the vast majority who are sensible, objective citizens. How much better are you then those who preach about their religion, if you preach about atheism?
    THIS IS THE BEST POST I HAVE EVER SEEN ON ANY RELIGION RELATED TOPIC. EVER, HANDS DOWN.

    Now THAT is rational thinking.

    Well deserved +rep.
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    (Original post by spasmos)
    I am also a strong atheist, but your post is almost hypocritical. What your post read to me was as a summary of the God Delusion by Dawkins. Therefore, your views, whilst not based on this book, use this book as an evidence and follow closely the criticism that Dawkins presents - is this not reminiescent of a religious activity to you? Religion is not simply the belief in God, but the following of a Ethos and morals. To literal meanings in religion are all but eradicated in modern society - for a closer example look towards Buddhism.

    Richard Dawkins is a poor excuse for a social scientist, and whilst some of his book (such as the selfish gene) are informative and accessible, The God Delusion is a prejudice and stagnant example of anti-monotheism.

    To criticise religion, you need to be prepared to understand it, and be specific - every religion is different and cannot be tarred with the same brush. The best critic for religion is the person who knows it inside out - the theologist.

    Lastly, you should allow people to have faith, if it helps them to live a better, more fulfilled life, then who are we to criticise. Speak to any modern person who follows a religion, and you will probably be surprised by their reasons and method of following. Media reports only on the extremes of religion, not the vast majority who are sensible, objective citizens. How much better are you then those who preach about their religion, if you preach about atheism?
    The Selfish Gene is actually a very good book (even excellent). I do not know about The God Delusion as I haven't read it but I'm not a huge fan of Dawkins's approach to religion (I'm an atheist as well btw).

    ...And really people ought to be more humble about their beliefs especially when they're talking about metaphysics.
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    (Original post by giga_grif)
    What I cannot understand is why religion is the one aspect of life which should NEVER be scrutinised, when it is something which is based upon no evidence whatsoever. If I told you that I believed that unicorns existed you would no doubt scrutinise and ridicule my beliefs, but just because it is someones religious beliefs you believe that I am in the wrong to scrutinise something which is inherently illogical.
    I didn't say it shouldn't be scrutinised at all. Many people find it to be the key to a happy and fulfilling life though, so it easily stands up to any scrutiny you can throw at it. As long as there is never any evidence to the contrary, it would always be difficult to remove someone's faith if they wanted it. I went through a lengthy period of scrutinising my beliefs, firstly deciding whether or not I believed (indeed I didn't want to believe for a while, because belief is sometimes heavy to bare), and then deciding which religion my belief should guide me to. For me my belief stems largely from experience, I feel God's presence and when I look at a sunset or a wonderful view I cannot fathom what evolutionary or biological reason I could have for enjoying it. Furthermore if I die tomorrow and it turns out there is nothing I won't even know, so what do I have to lose? Especially if it has changed my behaviour for the better.
 
 
 
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