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Is Creative Writing a useless degree?
I'm applying to do English and Creative Writing at uni next year, but can only find 5 unis that do it, that I'd like to go to, and that have entry grades I'm likely to get (and one of them is American Lit and Creative Writing anyway), and am therefore considering doing just Creative Writing on it's own at Essex, as they don't offer it as a combination with anything else. However, I'm slightly wary about this, as although it includes quite a bit of literature study, possibly as much as a joint degree with English would have, I'm worried that it won't go as far in getting me a job as a joint degree with English would, and that people may look down on me for taking such a non-standard course at uni. It's gonna cost a hell of a lot to get myself through uni, and just want to make sure it's worth it. I'd really appreciate some advice.
i'd suggest doing English, rather than Creative Writing. i havent got a clue what creative writing entails, but it just sounds like a bit of a 'mickey-mouse' degree to me. maybe someone who does it could offer better advice.
ollie
ollie
I'd go for English -- it's a degree that will arm you with many more skills that employers will want. While most graduate jobs don't need a specific degree, it is likely that they will not perceive creative writing as highly as English Literature (quite a respectable degree in the eyes of recruiters)
That's my thinking exactly. Cos I want to do English, but just don't think I could stand 3 years of it solidly, and therefore though Creative Writing would.....spice it up sort of, lol, and I want to write so I think I'd enjoy the Creative Writing side of it a lot more. but yeah, as ive got five English and Creative Writing ones already, theyre sorted, i want one more that includes creative writing in it, but cant find any joint ones at any decent unis im likely to get into, and therefore am considering resorting to it on its own at essex as my 6th choice....the alternative would be applying to another english and CW course at a uni i'm not sure i'd like, such as Brunel or Kingston.
You could always apply to do straight english lit at essex - I'm doing that course now, and for the first year only 25% of it is actually english! The other 25% is on the enlightenment period, and the remaining 50% is options (so you could take those options in creative writing). Then, if it's something you wanted to do afterwards, you could always do a masters in it. I think it's better to do a degree in something, then specialise in creative writing, instead of jumping into creative writing straight away. Also, the english course at essex relates alot of the texts you study to storytelling and mythology, as all the lecturers seem to have research interests in creative writing.
go on: http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/gooduniversityguide2005/20english.pdf and that'll show you the top uni's sorted by the quality of their English department.
steerpike
You could always apply to do straight english lit at essex - I'm doing that course now, and for the first year only 25% of it is actually english! The other 25% is on the enlightenment period, and the remaining 50% is options (so you could take those options in creative writing). Then, if it's something you wanted to do afterwards, you could always do a masters in it. I think it's better to do a degree in something, then specialise in creative writing, instead of jumping into creative writing straight away. Also, the english course at essex relates alot of the texts you study to storytelling and mythology, as all the lecturers seem to have research interests in creative writing.
Thanks for that steerpike, I've just gone to look at the english lit degree in the essex prospectus and it looks like pretty much the same thing for the first year, lol, as in creative writing you had to do introduction to literature and the enlightenment anyway as well as the creative writing module and then got one option, so if i did the straight lit course there i could just make the two options creative writing, lol. i think i might apply for that course now actually....thanks a lot
youd think id have considered doing the straight lit course myself before now.....but no, ladies and gentlemen, i am just that slow
I think you'd learn more about how to write by studying English than Creative Writing.
Why do you worry that doing CW might not help you get a job? Does this mean you're not actually interested in being a writer? Because surely it's more 'vocational' that English?
Why do you worry that doing CW might not help you get a job? Does this mean you're not actually interested in being a writer? Because surely it's more 'vocational' that English?
Da Bachtopus
I think you'd learn more about how to write by studying English than Creative Writing.
Perhaps. But the perception I have, is that you learn a lot more about how to be a writer on a creative writing course. One of the main problems I have is in breaking down my own mental barriers when it comes to creating characters and worlds etc, and in revising poetry, as well as structure and storytelling. Yes, reading the works of others can help me to understand how others have done it, but the advantage of a creative writing degree is that your own work is developed and focused on. And maybe even more than that, you can begin to learn what sort of writer you are, and how to be a better writer in years to come. At least, that's what I hope to gain.
Anyway, on to the actual question! I'm applying for English with Creative writing, English and Creative Writing. All three subjects, and it was quite easy to get them all on the PS. So if you want to leave your options open then that could be an idea.
The creative writing course I've applied for (had interview today) combines critical studies with some visual work, performance work as well as creative writing. There is a traditional dissertation on a topic in year 3 as well as the creative element - not all creative writing courses are just about sitting in a room writing sonnets.
In the end, it all depends on what you want to take. A hard-working, bright person with a a 2:1 or better should be in a good position to get a job. And many people who take creative writing do so with the aim of getting a job that relates well to the degree and the skills gained from it, i.e. publishing, ma in a related subject, journalism etc.
i'd assume that to be a creative writer, it would be quite helpful to have studied literature itself to quite a sufficient level. i've got no idea what they cover on creative writing courses - i'm sure there is literature - but as said, if you are aiming to get a job at the end of this other than being a creative writer, then straight english would probably be more appleaing to employers on the whole. also, if you did want to become a writer of any sort, english would still make such a thing possible.
A boy I know is doing English Language, Creative Writing and Socio Linguistics at Lancaster. Are you applying there? They do a joint honours course (which he's doing), but if you were to do single honours you can do minors in the first year, one of which could be creative writing as I understand it.
Da Bachtopus
I think you'd learn more about how to write by studying English than Creative Writing.
rubbish.
English literature teaches you to write essays regarding the analysis of various texts; creative writing allows you not only to learn about various texts (how they are generally structured, etc) but gives you the opportunity to then write something yourself.
I did English language and English literature at A-level and AS-level respectively, and only English language allowed me to express myself creatively, and that was at just one point over the two year syllabus (I had to write a fictional piece of writing as well as an article on a subject of my choice for an audience of my choice, then analyse my choices of language and so on). That aside, both courses were very essay-intensive, encouraging you to adhere to the rules of academia when writing, and English courses at various universities seemed very similar in their approach. How is that in any way learning to write more than you would if you were studying creative writing, particularly if you want to be a writer (a novelist, for instance, or even a journalist) of some description? There's so much more to it than essay writing.
--------------
Charlottie
A boy I know is doing English Language, Creative Writing and Socio Linguistics at Lancaster. Are you applying there? They do a joint honours course (which he's doing), but if you were to do single honours you can do minors in the first year, one of which could be creative writing as I understand it.
yeh and I hear that creative writing at Lancaster is very well respected?
marychrist
English literature teaches you to write essays regarding the analysis of various texts; creative writing allows you not only to learn about various texts (how they are generally structured, etc) but gives you the opportunity to then write something yourself.
I don't see why the "opportunity" to write is provided solely by the course you're on. You can write (creatively) at any time.
I did English language and English literature at A-level and AS-level respectively, and only English language allowed me to express myself creatively, and that was at just one point over the two year syllabus (I had to write a fictional piece of writing as well as an article on a subject of my choice for an audience of my choice, then analyse my choices of language and so on).
Can't you 'express yourself' when you're not doing coursework?
I'm being so sardonic because your "choices of language" are, frankly, disturbing. Doing an A-level "allowed" you to write!? You make it sound like a liberation. Likewise, you imply by this that English Literature, by not having a 'creative' element, actively prevented you from writing.
Not everything you do is governed by the syllabuses you cover at school.
That aside, both courses were very essay-intensive, encouraging you to adhere to the rules of academia when writing, and English courses at various universities seemed very similar in their approach.
What are the "rules of academia" exactly? There are ridiculous 'Assessment Objectves' to meet at A-level, but as far as I'm aware all that I have to do here is avoid plagiarism and include a bibliography. If what you mean is that when writing a critical essay you have to write a critical essay rather than a short story, then I can't complain. But (whilst I'm not given to them myself) I don't see why Greenblatt-style anecdotes would be frowned upon. In fact, it's interesting to consider in what ways critical work is creative.
How is that [i.e. writing essays] in any way learning to write more than you would if you were studying creative writing, particularly if you want to be a writer (a novelist, for instance, or even a journalist) of some description? There's so much more to it than essay writing.
What I originally said was that "I think you'd learn more about how to write by studying English than Creative Writing." You have characterised "studying English" as "essay writing". I think you'll find most English students are more interested in the general study of Literature than simply learning to write essays, which is only an element of the discipline.
I think you learn to write by reading.
Whilst it's good to have your creative work evaluated by someone, I don't see why this has to be part of your degree for you do to it. Of course you have to practise writing to improve, but there's plenty of time for that.
Criticism (especially Prac Crit) increases your sensitivity to formal features. If you can see how they are applied by others then you are well placed to apply them yourself. I don't deny that a writing course would also teach you such things, but you'll learn more by absorbing and thinking about as much literature as possible. This is ultimately what "studying English" entails, not simply writing essays. When reading you are always gaining ideas about how that particular text is written and what it is doing. It is a constant (if unconscious) process of analysis and is always teaching you something.
I should also add that studying English will allow you to explore the literary tradition as a tradition, and raise various questions about what constitutes 'literature', and what the roles of writer and critic might be today. Surely this helps you to define what kind of writer you might be?
Finally, since both of us seem to think that creative writing is worthwhile, it's safe to assume that we also believe there's something worthwhile to be gained from books. So, someone who studies a great number of books will benefit not just on the level of technique, but intellectually in general. In reading, you're also learning what to write about. In thinking and debating about all the ideas present in literature you are furnishing yourself with material. The more you have to say, the better a writer you'll be.
Charlottie
A boy I know is doing English Language, Creative Writing and Socio Linguistics at Lancaster. Are you applying there? They do a joint honours course (which he's doing), but if you were to do single honours you can do minors in the first year, one of which could be creative writing as I understand it.
Yeah, I am applying there, for English Language with Creative Writing. It's my long shot choice though. I'm also applying for American Lit with Creative Writing at UEA which is also a bit of a long shot as its ABB/BBB, which is what I'm predicted, but I hear that couse is very popular there. The others are Swansea, Portsmouth and Roehampton for English and Creative Writing, and now Essex for just English Lit, as it has Creative Writing modules which I could take as 2 modules out of the 4, and the 2 english lit modules I'd have had to take in the Creative Writing course anyway. Although I'm finding it a bit hard to adapt my personal statement, lol.
I'm also really nervous, as Lancaster, Swansea and Portsmouth ask for a portfolio of Creative Writing when you apply
Make sure you have a little army of poems and short stories to throw at them then! I am quite envious. I wanted to do some creative writing as part of my degree, but in the end decided that I would benefit more from studying English in a more broad way and practicing my own writing alone - a lot of departments boast about having a writer hanging around for consulting and the reading of your work. Others have workshops organised. Again, there are also modular options with some degrees for creative writing, so I think that there is a lot of opportunity to fine tune your creativity over the course of your degree, whatever subject area you decide to focus on.
Bryllyg
Make sure you have a little army of poems and short stories to throw at them then!.
That's the thing.....I don't have that many short stories or poems, just really long stories that I've been working on, lol. Swansea have emailed me to say that the portfolio could be:
"a clutch of, say, half a dozen poems, or a couple of short stories, or a
chapter from a novel, or an extract from a play, or a short piece of
creative non fiction, by which I mean a factual piece of writing on a
subject of interest to you, presented perhaps as a literary essay (not an
academic essay) or the kind of feature article you'd find in a good magazine
or intelligent newspaper."
So hopefully a chapter from a novel or the piece of factual writing I did for my AS english coursework would be OK. I've also emailed Lancaster and Portsmouth to ask what they wanted in this portfolio but they have yet to reply.
I'm doing English Lit with Creative Writing and Womens Studies at Lancaster at the moment and plan to do a join honours English Lit and Creative Writing degree from next year.
The Creative Writing department is very well respected, as the lecturer continually reminds us.
From my experiences of the course so far, English Lit is good in the sense that you get a wider knowledge of other literature that's out there and been written in the past and present, but Creative Writing is good for forcing you to showcase your work and have it criticised by others, which inevitably leads to an improvement in your writing.
Just my two pennies worth.
The Creative Writing department is very well respected, as the lecturer continually reminds us.
From my experiences of the course so far, English Lit is good in the sense that you get a wider knowledge of other literature that's out there and been written in the past and present, but Creative Writing is good for forcing you to showcase your work and have it criticised by others, which inevitably leads to an improvement in your writing. Just my two pennies worth.
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