Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Teacher=Epic fail. Plain form and present form help? Exam! Watch

Announcements
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    As you can see our seminar leader is the biggest waste of space, and keeps giving us the wrong descriptions/definitions. I'm having trouble with the difference between the plain form and plain present. The definitions she gave us were:

    Plain form: Identical with lexical base of the word. NOT inflected with tense (book says is also not in the present tense) and Plain present: inflected for tense also identical with lexical base, usually indicates present time (book says used in present tense and in either plural, first person and second person)

    When applying this to examples the answers don't match up:

    "The twins, he says, seem quite distraught (the underlined verb being plain present)
    "It would be best not to say anything about it" (plain form)

    Could somebody either show me where I'm going wrong or give me a better definition?!
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by melonhead12)

    Could somebody either show me where I'm going wrong or give me a better definition?!
    I don't normally respond to posts ****ging off teachers, but bah humbug aside, here goes...

    According to Huddlestone and Pullum, the plain form is used with the imperative, the subjunctive and infinitival forms. They define it as consisting "simply of the lexical base, the plain base without any suffix or other modification".

    I reckon that would be your 2nd example then, as it's an infinitival construction. The first example looks to me to be just the simple present form. It appears the same as the plain form, but I don't know if it's necessarily helpful to call it a plain present. Does that help? Or am I an epic fail too?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by merkatron)
    I don't normally respond to posts ****ging off teachers, but bah humbug aside, here goes...

    According to Huddlestone and Pullum, the plain form is used with the imperative, the subjunctive and infinitival forms. They define it as consisting "simply of the lexical base, the plain base without any suffix or other modification".

    I reckon that would be your 2nd example then, as it's an infinitival construction. The first example looks to me to be just the simple present form. It appears the same as the plain form, but I don't know if it's necessarily helpful to call it a plain present. Does that help? Or am I an epic fail too?
    I've always been told that english doesn't have subjunctive, instead the plain form (infinitive) is used e.g. to have, to run, to say. Plain present therefore, I assume is the conjugation of any verbs..in the present...(he has, he runs, etc.)

    Spoiler:
    Show
    I am not learning english at as or a2 or uni...I have tho been learning english grammar since I was 3 years old..so I'd double check If i were u
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Isn't the "plain form" just the infinitive? Why are they filling your heads with nonsense? :ninja:

    English does have a subjunctive, however, it simply looks like the infinitive with "to" removed.

    Anyway, your book seems to draw a distinction between "the plain form" and "the plain present", but says nonetheless that they are identical (except in the third person present where an -s is usually added, e.g. comes). It all sounds like mumbo jumbo to me veiling the fact that English grammar is so bloody simple!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jismith1989)
    Isn't the "plain form" just the infinitive? Why are they filling your heads with nonsense?

    English does have a subjunctive, however, it simply looks like the infinitive with "to" removed. English grammar all looks the same!
    English grammar fcking rocks....it's the reason why it's the universal language.. (I'm talking about proper british english btw)
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by R3L4Y)
    English grammar fcking rocks....it's the reason why it's the universal language.. (I'm talking about proper british english btw)
    Yeah, that and a few hundred years of Anglo-American world hegemony.

    English grammar might rock, but, compared to most other languages in the world, it's pretty simple.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jismith1989)
    Yeah, that and a few hundred years of Anglo-American world hegemony.

    English grammar might rock, but, compared to most other languages in the world, it's pretty simple.
    haha trust me, I kno. ...which is why I think is a real challenge for english natives to learn another language...it IS extremely hard if even basic grammar concepts aren't taught at schools. and Some moods and cases don't even exist! and no fem/male/neut. .....Its like language paradise!! :nutcase:
    Spoiler:
    Show
    sorry, I'm a bit over excited, I got offered a place to study maths and linguistics at york yesterday...:headbang:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by merkatron)
    I don't normally respond to posts ****ging off teachers, but bah humbug aside, here goes...
    Sometimes you have to. There was a Physics lecturer that we used to end up having a system to take in turns to correct.

    Favourite moment: Coursework question set. Coursework question answered. Coursework answer wrong as although we had answer the question he set correctly he had meant to ask a different question.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by markrush)
    Sometimes you have to. There was a Physics lecturer that we used to end up having a system to take in turns to correct.

    Favourite moment: Coursework question set. Coursework question answered. Coursework answer wrong as although we had answer the question he set correctly he had meant to ask a different question.
    Yeah, I know. I'm getting prissy in my old age
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    i.This is the plain present form. Substituting the verb "be" gives thefollowing sentences.
    Thetwins, he says, are quite distraught.
    *Thetwins, he says, be quite distraught.
    Theevidence indicates that the plain form "be" is ungrammatical in thiscontext; therefore, "seem" must be the plain present form.

    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    i.This is the plain present form. Substituting the verb "be" gives thefollowing sentences.
    Thetwins, he says, are quite distraught.
    *Thetwins, he says, be quite distraught.
    Theevidence indicates that the plain form "be" is ungrammatical in thiscontext; therefore, "seem" must be the plain present form.
    plain present of be isusually are but the plain form is be.

 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Will you be richer or poorer than your parents?
    Useful resources

    Make your revision easier

    OMAM

    Ultimate Of Mice And Men Thread

    Plot, context, character analysis and everything in between.

    Notes

    Revision Hub

    All our revision materials in one place

    Love books

    Common grammar and vocabulary problems

    Get your questions asked and answered

    Useful literary websitesStudy help rules and posting guidelines

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.