lol no.
Edit: should probably explain.
Things that care considered useful for GEP medicince courses:
Work either voluntary or paid in:
-Hospital
-Hospice
-Elderly care home.
All these roles have to based on direct care of patients. Speak to them, transporting them, feeding etc. Are all fine. Working in the hospital shop and admin aren't.
Things that won't help you:
-Shadowing a doctor (for obvious reasons, you're not doing care work; just watching some perform procedures you won't understand and may get grilled on at interview
- Working in any sort of care role where there is no medica/ health related care needsl needs involved. So volunteering in a nursery is bad, but volunteering in a school for children with special needs, good.
Edit: should probably explain.
Things that care considered useful for GEP medicince courses:
Work either voluntary or paid in:
-Hospital
-Hospice
-Elderly care home.
All these roles have to based on direct care of patients. Speak to them, transporting them, feeding etc. Are all fine. Working in the hospital shop and admin aren't.
Things that won't help you:
-Shadowing a doctor (for obvious reasons, you're not doing care work; just watching some perform procedures you won't understand and may get grilled on at interview
- Working in any sort of care role where there is no medica/ health related care needsl needs involved. So volunteering in a nursery is bad, but volunteering in a school for children with special needs, good.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by itzme
is it nt valued at all?
How is looking after children in anyway beneficial in understand the needs of hospital patients, the role of a doctor or what life working in a hospital is like?
because paediatric patients make up a significant proportion of patients. If you could sell it from an angle of understanding about emotional and cognitive development and understanding how to communicate with children at various developmental stages i think you could get something out of it. You could also gain understanding of how social and societal needs could affect the physical and emotional health of children and parents. Remember that holistic approaches to health are vogue, biomedical approaches are old hat.
Also you can explain how you were able to recognise that childcare is not just caring for the child but caring for the wider family unit and working with them to achieve x, y or z outcome for the child/children. But that is a little weaker than the first bit.
You have to remember that healthcare and social care are interlinked, and childcare is often part of social care needs. Not all healthcare happens in a hospital. Not all health needs are physical. There are different dimensions to and aspects of health, think physical, emotional, spiritual, social, societal all that ****.
of course that said, I am sure that a bit of hospital experience would be beneficial.
Also you can explain how you were able to recognise that childcare is not just caring for the child but caring for the wider family unit and working with them to achieve x, y or z outcome for the child/children. But that is a little weaker than the first bit.
You have to remember that healthcare and social care are interlinked, and childcare is often part of social care needs. Not all healthcare happens in a hospital. Not all health needs are physical. There are different dimensions to and aspects of health, think physical, emotional, spiritual, social, societal all that ****.
of course that said, I am sure that a bit of hospital experience would be beneficial.
Original post by winter_mute
How is looking after children in anyway beneficial in understand the needs of hospital patients, the role of a doctor or what life working in a hospital is like?
Hmmm. I have very little experience of graduate applications, and I know that their requirements for work exp/voluntary work are a little different, but I wouldn't say that it's totally useless for medicine.
If you look at my profile, pretty much ALL my voluntary work was with children and not in a healthcare setting - mainly in a nursery school and with Brownies. Now, I didn't learn much about being a doctor there, but I learnt about communication with children of different ages AND their parents (occasionally in a variety of situations - try calling up someone's mum who has just left her 7 year old with you away from home for the first time to say you've got to take her to hospital!), it allowed me to take responsibility for them in all sorts of ways and I got involved in the leadership and planning of the Brownie group which was a very useful experience. And FAR more fun than pushing the ward tea trolley! (which was not really an option for me as there were no hospitals within sensible public transport distance)
So, while I doubt it would replace whatever specific requirements there are for a graduate course, I think it is quite naive to say that it is totally useless for a medicine application. Davey Jones' points are also very relevant and sensible so I won't restate them. Don't forget that even though not many people end up going into Paeds, vast swathes of us (hopefully not me!) will become GPs, who see a large number of kids.
helenia
Don't forget that even though not many people end up going into Paeds, vast swathes of us (hopefully not me!) will become GPs, who see a large number of kids.
Probably the only specialities that you won't come across kids are medicine or the lab based specialities.
Original post by itzme
does experience as a childcare assistant in a nursery count as the required experience for graduate entry to medicine?thnx for any replies
Original post by winter_mute
lol no.
Edit: should probably explain.
Things that care considered useful for GEP medicince courses:
Work either voluntary or paid in:
-Hospital
-Hospice
-Elderly care home.
All these roles have to based on direct care of patients. Speak to them, transporting them, feeding etc. Are all fine. Working in the hospital shop and admin aren't.
Things that won't help you:
-Shadowing a doctor (for obvious reasons, you're not doing care work; just watching some perform procedures you won't understand and may get grilled on at interview
- Working in any sort of care role where there is no medica/ health related care needsl needs involved. So volunteering in a nursery is bad, but volunteering in a school for children with special needs, good.
Edit: should probably explain.
Things that care considered useful for GEP medicince courses:
Work either voluntary or paid in:
-Hospital
-Hospice
-Elderly care home.
All these roles have to based on direct care of patients. Speak to them, transporting them, feeding etc. Are all fine. Working in the hospital shop and admin aren't.
Things that won't help you:
-Shadowing a doctor (for obvious reasons, you're not doing care work; just watching some perform procedures you won't understand and may get grilled on at interview
- Working in any sort of care role where there is no medica/ health related care needsl needs involved. So volunteering in a nursery is bad, but volunteering in a school for children with special needs, good.
strongly disagree with both of those.
shadowing a doctor can be extremely useful if you have the oppertunity. what better way to find out if you want to do a job than to witness someone doing it. it gives you the oppertunity to witness the less exciting day to day bits rather than any glorified mental images you might have. however this is only if you make the most out of it. if all you take out of shadowing doctors is a shallow procedural knowledge and get hung up on the practical aspects of what you observe then its an utter waste and you clearly have no understanding of why you are there. the whole point of it is to witness aspects of the profession and its interactions within the healthcare environment. whilst this isn't mandatory it can still be useful if you actually stop and think rather than just do it for the sake of doing it (which, being rather cynical, i suspect the majority of applicants do).
for the 2nd point i don't understand how you think the aspects of communication you gain from working in any person orientated role is worthless. don't forget as a doctor you're also interacted with those in health; family members, friends etc. you don't need to interact with lots of ill people to get better and talking to people that are ill. its absolute rubbish that any kind of experience in stuff like that is 'bad' its entirely what you take out of it! in fact i think its a good thing, good communicators are those who have an understanding of the real world that the people they're talking to live in.
it just seems very narrow minded to think of things in such a way. whilst you obviously have to do other more clinically orientated things to establish that it is what you want to do, the experience is not wasted.
Original post by John Locke
strongly disagree with both of those.
shadowing a doctor can be extremely useful if you have the oppertunity. what better way to find out if you want to do a job than to witness someone doing it. it gives you the oppertunity to witness the less exciting day to day bits rather than any glorified mental images you might have. however this is only if you make the most out of it. if all you take out of shadowing doctors is a shallow procedural knowledge and get hung up on the practical aspects of what you observe then its an utter waste and you clearly have no understanding of why you are there. the whole point of it is to witness aspects of the profession and its interactions within the healthcare environment. whilst this isn't mandatory it can still be useful if you actually stop and think rather than just do it for the sake of doing it (which, being rather cynical, i suspect the majority of applicants do).
for the 2nd point i don't understand how you think the aspects of communication you gain from working in any person orientated role is worthless. don't forget as a doctor you're also interacted with those in health; family members, friends etc. you don't need to interact with lots of ill people to get better and talking to people that are ill. its absolute rubbish that any kind of experience in stuff like that is 'bad' its entirely what you take out of it! in fact i think its a good thing, good communicators are those who have an understanding of the real world that the people they're talking to live in.
it just seems very narrow minded to think of things in such a way. whilst you obviously have to do other more clinically orientated things to establish that it is what you want to do, the experience is not wasted.
shadowing a doctor can be extremely useful if you have the oppertunity. what better way to find out if you want to do a job than to witness someone doing it. it gives you the oppertunity to witness the less exciting day to day bits rather than any glorified mental images you might have. however this is only if you make the most out of it. if all you take out of shadowing doctors is a shallow procedural knowledge and get hung up on the practical aspects of what you observe then its an utter waste and you clearly have no understanding of why you are there. the whole point of it is to witness aspects of the profession and its interactions within the healthcare environment. whilst this isn't mandatory it can still be useful if you actually stop and think rather than just do it for the sake of doing it (which, being rather cynical, i suspect the majority of applicants do).
for the 2nd point i don't understand how you think the aspects of communication you gain from working in any person orientated role is worthless. don't forget as a doctor you're also interacted with those in health; family members, friends etc. you don't need to interact with lots of ill people to get better and talking to people that are ill. its absolute rubbish that any kind of experience in stuff like that is 'bad' its entirely what you take out of it! in fact i think its a good thing, good communicators are those who have an understanding of the real world that the people they're talking to live in.
it just seems very narrow minded to think of things in such a way. whilst you obviously have to do other more clinically orientated things to establish that it is what you want to do, the experience is not wasted.
For school leavers shadowing useful as there are age implications with working within the NHS and being under 18.
Every single graduate medical program I have enquired about has said shadowing or following a consultant/GP is useless for mature students.
The requirements of candidates differ between mature and school leavers.
Edit: This is SGUL's scoring criteria for GEP interviews, note that shadowing is one step above no experience at all: http://www.sgul.ac.uk/undergraduate/MBBS%20Graduate%20Stream/work-experience-scores.pdf
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by winter_mute
For school leavers shadowing useful as there are age implications with working within the NHS and being under 18.
Every single graduate medical program I have enquired about has said shadowing or following a consultant/GP is useless for mature students.
The requirements of candidates differ between mature and school leavers.
Edit: This is SGUL's scoring criteria for GEP interviews, note that shadowing is one step above no experience at all: http://www.sgul.ac.uk/undergraduate/MBBS%20Graduate%20Stream/work-experience-scores.pdf
Every single graduate medical program I have enquired about has said shadowing or following a consultant/GP is useless for mature students.
The requirements of candidates differ between mature and school leavers.
Edit: This is SGUL's scoring criteria for GEP interviews, note that shadowing is one step above no experience at all: http://www.sgul.ac.uk/undergraduate/MBBS%20Graduate%20Stream/work-experience-scores.pdf
PCT dependent.
does it really make any difference if you are 'scored' on it? admittedly you have to play the game to a certain extent in making sure you have covered what you will be scored. however that is not what i was talking about. there is more to deciding to study medicine and doing so than ticking boxes on selection criteria....
Original post by Helenia
Hmmm. I have very little experience of graduate applications, and I know that their requirements for work exp/voluntary work are a little different, but I wouldn't say that it's totally useless for medicine.
If you look at my profile, pretty much ALL my voluntary work was with children and not in a healthcare setting - mainly in a nursery school and with Brownies. Now, I didn't learn much about being a doctor there, but I learnt about communication with children of different ages AND their parents (occasionally in a variety of situations - try calling up someone's mum who has just left her 7 year old with you away from home for the first time to say you've got to take her to hospital!), it allowed me to take responsibility for them in all sorts of ways and I got involved in the leadership and planning of the Brownie group which was a very useful experience. And FAR more fun than pushing the ward tea trolley! (which was not really an option for me as there were no hospitals within sensible public transport distance)
So, while I doubt it would replace whatever specific requirements there are for a graduate course, I think it is quite naive to say that it is totally useless for a medicine application. Davey Jones' points are also very relevant and sensible so I won't restate them. Don't forget that even though not many people end up going into Paeds, vast swathes of us (hopefully not me!) will become GPs, who see a large number of kids.
If you look at my profile, pretty much ALL my voluntary work was with children and not in a healthcare setting - mainly in a nursery school and with Brownies. Now, I didn't learn much about being a doctor there, but I learnt about communication with children of different ages AND their parents (occasionally in a variety of situations - try calling up someone's mum who has just left her 7 year old with you away from home for the first time to say you've got to take her to hospital!), it allowed me to take responsibility for them in all sorts of ways and I got involved in the leadership and planning of the Brownie group which was a very useful experience. And FAR more fun than pushing the ward tea trolley! (which was not really an option for me as there were no hospitals within sensible public transport distance)
So, while I doubt it would replace whatever specific requirements there are for a graduate course, I think it is quite naive to say that it is totally useless for a medicine application. Davey Jones' points are also very relevant and sensible so I won't restate them. Don't forget that even though not many people end up going into Paeds, vast swathes of us (hopefully not me!) will become GPs, who see a large number of kids.
I think the main point of contention here are the expectations of admissions staff for normal school leavers vs. mature students.
If you're reflecting on skills, you could argue (and quite successfully so) that working in a creche or a nursery gave you good leadership skills/sense of responsibility. But then surely being a team leader in Sainsburys could give you the same no? I know that's not a perfect analogy but my point is any sort of work experience can be valuable.
However due to restrictions in the NHS getting full on voluntary work can be very difficult. I'm currently looking after a group of 16/17 year old social care students from the local college who come here once a week in addition to my other duties and they're severely limited as to where they can go (for example all psychiatric inpatient wards are out of bounds).
So I guess admissions officers want applicants to look elsewhere if they're still in school.
I believe
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by winter_mute
I believe Keele insist on a full years paid work in an allied healthcare job before they'll accept you.
Leicester
Original post by John Locke
PCT dependent.
does it really make any difference if you are 'scored' on it? admittedly you have to play the game to a certain extent in making sure you have covered what you will be scored. however that is not what i was talking about. there is more to deciding to study medicine and doing so than ticking boxes on selection criteria....
does it really make any difference if you are 'scored' on it? admittedly you have to play the game to a certain extent in making sure you have covered what you will be scored. however that is not what i was talking about. there is more to deciding to study medicine and doing so than ticking boxes on selection criteria....
The importance of your healthcare work record varies, in courses where you need science A levels to get on the graduate program, not so much. But for ones that don't they're pretty much taken in lieu, or rather your amount of work experience is treated as any other academic qualification. (this goes even more for uni's that accept 2:2 undergrads).
Carrying on in the case of SGUL, GEP applicants won't have their PS's read, nor their references. Their GAMSAT mark will only be a factor in extenuating circumstances, it's all down to your performance in the MMI interview, (and getting over the arbitrary GAMSAT cutoff for interview), and the amount of work experience you have
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by apotoftea
Leicester
Thanks for the correction, didn't know which one of the two it was. Either way those were the ones I didn't apply to!
Original post by winter_mute
How is looking after children in anyway beneficial in understand the needs of hospital patients, the role of a doctor or what life working in a hospital is like?
Do all doctors work in hospitals? Are there no young patients in hospitals? How many specialities can you think of that would never involve interaction with children?
Original post by Markh1000
Do all doctors work in hospitals? Are there no young patients in hospitals? How many specialities can you think of that would never involve interaction with children?
did you read my other posts?To explain again: The majority of Graduate entry medical courses have specific criteria for work experience. It's not like a school leaver where they're looking for you to show initiative/team/communication skills etc. (although they do expect that from you as a person anyway).
While you might gain transferable skills, child care is not in a healthcare setting, pure and simple.
Working in a nursery specifically for children with disabilities/learning difficulties would be different, as that's social care and not simple childcare. I think a grey area would be working in a community run facility aimed at single parents/low income families.
To the OP: a little more information about your other voluntary experience/the courses you're applying to would be useful.
More information can be found here.It's a little vague (calling up the admissions officers will give you a far more detailed list of the kind of thing they're expecting) but it's a good starting point.
In addition to some care based work experience it would be very useful, but not as the only example.
I worked in a nursery that had links with sure start and emphasised the social aspect of my job as well as the caring, as it was a highly deprived area. I also reinforced this by doing work experience on a paediatric neurology ward.
Hope that helps
I worked in a nursery that had links with sure start and emphasised the social aspect of my job as well as the caring, as it was a highly deprived area. I also reinforced this by doing work experience on a paediatric neurology ward.
Hope that helps
Original post by winter_mute
The importance of your healthcare work record varies, in courses where you need science A levels to get on the graduate program, not so much. But for ones that don't they're pretty much taken in lieu, or rather your amount of work experience is treated as any other academic qualification. (this goes even more for uni's that accept 2:2 undergrads).
Carrying on in the case of SGUL, GEP applicants won't have their PS's read, nor their references. Their GAMSAT mark will only be a factor in extenuating circumstances, it's all down to your performance in the MMI interview, (and getting over the arbitrary GAMSAT cutoff for interview), and the amount of work experience you have
Carrying on in the case of SGUL, GEP applicants won't have their PS's read, nor their references. Their GAMSAT mark will only be a factor in extenuating circumstances, it's all down to your performance in the MMI interview, (and getting over the arbitrary GAMSAT cutoff for interview), and the amount of work experience you have
you completely misunderstand me. there is more to deciding to study medicine and develouping skills that are required as a doctor than the limited amount of things considered by medical schools under some pseudo-standardisation campaign. so so much more!
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