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Is This a justified reason for failing ? Watch

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    I failed my driving test today, because I indicated left when moving back into a lane, after overtaking a bus. I had 1 minor in total, and it was necessary to indicate as the road was quite busy. WHY THE **** DID HE FAIL ME ?
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    Is it possible there was a road turning off on the left hand side and your signal could have confused other drivers?
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    You don't signal when moving back into lanes after overtaking.

    Plus, it doesn't matter if you contest the failure. You'll still end up having to repeat the test.
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    (Original post by Beska)
    Is it possible there was a road turning off on the left hand side and your signal could have confused other drivers?
    If this is the case then i can understand you failing your test. Normally i would indicate left though if i had overtook something, but maybe thats just me.
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    (Original post by bijesh12)
    I failed my driving test today, because I indicated left when moving back into a lane, after overtaking a bus. I had 1 minor in total, and it was necessary to indicate as the road was quite busy. WHY THE **** DID HE FAIL ME ?
    It's difficult to say conclusively from your post. I would tend to ask the same as Beska but the problem is that you remember what you did i.e., signalling but wouldn't necessarily remember a road if there was one, because if you had seen it, you wouldn't have signalled...

    (Original post by Beska)
    Is it possible there was a road turning off on the left hand side and your signal could have confused other drivers?
    (Original post by Hylean)
    You don't signal when moving back into lanes after overtaking.

    Plus, it doesn't matter if you contest the failure. You'll still end up having to repeat the test.
    First, it may be appropriate to signal, it depends on the circumstances. This is what reading the road is all about; you need to do what is right and not necessarily what you have been taught by rote to do by an instructor.

    Secondly, I don't think BIJESH12 was suggesting contesting the failure. He/she just wanted to know why...


    Emma
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    There is no mention of where the serious fault was marked. The failure may not necessarily have been connected with the signal (probably under "signals correctly"), as there could have been any other fault committed at the time, but forgotten as the examiner mentioned "when you signalled left after the bus". It could have been marked under mirrors direction, judgement overtaking, awareness and planning or something else.

    Perhaps if the OP gives more info, or perhaps a scan of the report form, we could be of more help.

    Besides, what did your instructor say?
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    If you listened to the debrief you'd know why you failed. And at any rate, you don't have to signal when returning to normal driving position. Arguably, if you needed to signal to "ask permission" then you'd have to question whether it was wise to pass the bus.

    If you wanted to know why, you should have listened carefully to the debrief.

    Take it on the chin, explain the scenario to your instructor (TRUTHFULLY) and ask what the best course of action would be and why.
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    in the debrief, he said that you shouldn't have indicated, because it misleads road users behind you ?. And I overtook the bus, because there was an opportunity that wasn't off any risk, he said to me good that you overtook the bus, and the serious fault lies in the fact that you indicated. I know I'm going to have to retake the test, but matter of fact is that there are far more serious faults that can occur, of which I didn't do any, and had 1 minor- which was i forgot to check one of my blind spots while moving off.
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    (Original post by R. Murray)
    If you listened to the debrief you'd know why you failed. And at any rate, you don't have to signal when returning to normal driving position. Arguably, if you needed to signal to "ask permission" then you'd have to question whether it was wise to pass the bus.

    If you wanted to know why, you should have listened carefully to the debrief.

    Take it on the chin, explain the scenario to your instructor (TRUTHFULLY) and ask what the best course of action would be and why.
    I'm sorry I don't agree. The right course of action may be to signal - as I said earlier, it depends on the circumstances.

    Also, I'm sorry but I find your post rather unsympathetic. In the maelstrom of emotions following a test failure it is quite possible that the poster misunderstood the explanation and therefore cannot 'be truthful' to his/her instructor. The debrief is not an ideal environment for the candidate to understand what went wrong and that is why I ALWAYS recommend to my pupils that they ask for me to be present at the debrief. I am unaffected (relatively) by the emotion of the situation.
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    (Original post by Emma-Ashley)
    I'm sorry I don't agree. The right course of action may be to signal - as I said earlier, it depends on the circumstances.

    Also, I'm sorry but I find your post rather unsympathetic. In the maelstrom of emotions following a test failure it is quite possible that the poster misunderstood the explanation and therefore cannot 'be truthful' to his/her instructor. The debrief is not an ideal environment for the candidate to understand what went wrong and that is why I ALWAYS recommend to my pupils that they ask for me to be present at the debrief. I am unaffected (relatively) by the emotion of the situation.
    If he's returning to a normal driving position I'd argue that no signal is necessary and I love how it's okay to ***** and moan about driving examiners who put up with all the crap thrown their way. I wasn't asking OP to be truthful about the debrief, but be truthful about the scenario they found themselves in. I can remember every bit of my test, and indeed most of the mock tests I had.

    It seems everyone thinks they're qualified to overrule a highly trained examiner's professional opinion. I agree it's the instructor's failing to not listen in on the debrief, but the examiner will have asked if the candidate would like the accompanying driver to listen in on the debrief, in fact I think the instructors have a lot of blame to take, I'm not saying you, but as a profession the standards are pretty low in my view. Many instructors seem to teach learners to pass the test, not to drive. And fail at even getting them through a basic competency test.

    No one but examiners are qualified to make a decision about a fault. Get a group of instructors together and give them a scenario and you'll get the full spectrum of fault weightings from that group, from no fault right up to serious/dangerous, even giving them the DT1 to read.

    Again, I emphasise that this isn't an attack on you or good, reputable and able driving instructors. But as a profession I'd be very disappointed with an overall pass rate of about 40-50% is pretty poor. I'll concede that you'll always get a margin of error where candidates perfectly able come across a certain situation and can't deal with it, or get sloppy, but I'd be disappointed with anything less than about 80% for such a simple test (which has become even simpler since October).
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    (Original post by R. Murray)
    If he's returning to a normal driving position I'd argue that no signal is necessary and I love how it's okay to ***** and moan about driving examiners who put up with all the crap thrown their way. I wasn't asking OP to be truthful about the debrief, but be truthful about the scenario they found themselves in. I can remember every bit of my test, and indeed most of the mock tests I had.

    It seems everyone thinks they're qualified to overrule a highly trained examiner's professional opinion. I agree it's the instructor's failing to not listen in on the debrief, but the examiner will have asked if the candidate would like the accompanying driver to listen in on the debrief, in fact I think the instructors have a lot of blame to take, I'm not saying you, but as a profession the standards are pretty low in my view. Many instructors seem to teach learners to pass the test, not to drive. And fail at even getting them through a basic competency test.

    No one but examiners are qualified to make a decision about a fault. Get a group of instructors together and give them a scenario and you'll get the full spectrum of fault weightings from that group, from no fault right up to serious/dangerous, even giving them the DT1 to read.

    Again, I emphasise that this isn't an attack on you or good, reputable and able driving instructors. But as a profession I'd be very disappointed with an overall pass rate of about 40-50% is pretty poor. I'll concede that you'll always get a margin of error where candidates perfectly able come across a certain situation and can't deal with it, or get sloppy, but I'd be disappointed with anything less than about 80% for such a simple test (which has become even simpler since October).
    I don't think I ***** and moan about examiners and instead try to support them wherever possible albeit not necessarily obviously. This is because those who have recently failed tests can be not particularly well disposed to examiners when I am responding to posts. Therefore I try to explain, in a limited way, why the examiner may have judged their driving in such a way. It's a skill that I am still trying to master.

    I do wish sometimes that there was more consistency from examiners though as even I have seen situations where one pupil has passed and another has failed, both having committed the same fault.

    However I do agree that 10 instructors will give 10 different opinions given the same scenario and that some instruction that is given is woefully short of the mark that I consider to be the right of the pupil. I try to ensure that my pupils are taught to drive rather than just pass the test and on the whole I am successful. I am horrified by some of the things that I see and hear as an instructor but would support examiners over instructors any day.

    Finally it is worth pointing out, supported in spades on this forum, that pupils sometimes will not be guided by the expertise of their instructor and insist on taking their test before they are ready. This is not ideal but is sometimes exacerbated by instructors trying to get as much money out of pupils as possible. I take great pride in the fact that none of my pupils has ever taken more than the average number of hours tuition (as per the DSA) with me to pass their test - a record that I work hard to maintain. Above all I work to put good, safe drivers on the road.
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    (Original post by Emma-Ashley)
    I don't think I ***** and moan about examiners and instead try to support them wherever possible albeit not necessarily obviously. This is because those who have recently failed tests can be not particularly well disposed to examiners when I am responding to posts. Therefore I try to explain, in a limited way, why the examiner may have judged their driving in such a way. It's a skill that I am still trying to master.

    I do wish sometimes that there was more consistency from examiners though as even I have seen situations where one pupil has passed and another has failed, both having committed the same fault.

    However I do agree that 10 instructors will give 10 different opinions given the same scenario and that some instruction that is given is woefully short of the mark that I consider to be the right of the pupil. I try to ensure that my pupils are taught to drive rather than just pass the test and on the whole I am successful. I am horrified by some of the things that I see and hear as an instructor but would support examiners over instructors any day.

    Finally it is worth pointing out, supported in spades on this forum, that pupils sometimes will not be guided by the expertise of their instructor and insist on taking their test before they are ready. This is not ideal but is sometimes exacerbated by instructors trying to get as much money out of pupils as possible. I take great pride in the fact that none of my pupils has ever taken more than the average number of hours tuition (as per the DSA) with me to pass their test - a record that I work hard to maintain. Above all I work to put good, safe drivers on the road.
    I wasn't for a moment suggesting you ***** and moan about examiners, sorry if it came across that way. I was referring to those who do so on these forums.

    When it comes to understanding examiners' decisions, the DT1 is pretty useful, but it won't make you an examiner, but it gives you an insight into the weighting of faults which is quite nice.

    That was one of my points, the regulation of driving instructors doesn't seem to be that good, there are - of course - many great instructors. The one that took me for my pass plus was great. It should never be the case that learners are taken for a ride by money grabbing instructors who have no intention of getting them through the test quickly. I've heard stories of instructors who teach them almost enough to get through the test, and put them up - surprise surprise, they don't make it. Then the instructor will teach them a tiny bit more, but still not quite enough, rinse and repeat.

    As I've mentioned, weighting of the faults depends on the situation - and test is very different from the back of a car, not to mention the examiner is able to see things that are important to the weighting of the fault.

    For example,
    DE: Pull up on the left at a safe and convenient location
    [Candidate whacks on their left signal and pulls up (at a safe and convenient spot)]

    Now, if the examiner started looking at the candidate as he gave the instruction, and saw there was no mirror - there's a fault, weighting depends on situation of course.

    But if the examiner watches the candidate for an appropriate length of time before giving the instruction, they'll possibly see a mirror check - meaning that there's no fault.

    Not to mention that the candidate will swear blind they mirrored either way.

    I would argue that the DSA recommendation of hours of lessons is a bit too low. The more experience the better equipped the learner will be to deal with any situations that arise.

    I was taught over the course of just under a year by my parents and had plenty of lessons and more importantly many hours of "independent driving". It gave me great confidence going into the test - not so much that I had a flawless drive! but I passed first time and wasn't nervous about driving on my own without a safety net.

    I believe that driving really is a skill for life and it makes sense to get as much experience as possible as young as possible (after all aren't new drivers the most dangerous! My insurer seems to think so!)

    In case you've not come across it I provide the DT1 Link:
    http://www.dft.gov.uk/dsa/Documents/..._procedure.pdf

    Guaranteed to send to you sleep!
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    I only failed on little things! Take a look at this video, for an insider's view of the test.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWfpGZ15juQ

    All the best for next time, bijesh12.

    Victor
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    if it was one of those typical town roads,
    with one lane for one way, and one lane for the other,
    i can understand if you indicate right when you're overtaking the bus - but why indicate left when returning back to the correct lane?

    it's not as if you're going to stay in the right-most lane with the oncoming traffic. personally if someone was indicating back left in the above scenario i know i would presume they wee planning to park or turn left off the road. ¬.¬
 
 
 
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