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Advice on how to avoid friend-zone Watch

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    So basically there's this girl I sort of like/would like to know better...however, I rarely see her in real life, but we do speak and text quite a bit. However, I'm not sure if she's after a relationship or anything, but I wouldn't mind trying.
    I would like to avoid being friend-zoned, can anyone give any advice? I want to ask her to do something with me, but can't think of anywhere really. The cinema and stuff like that sounds too much like a date or might look a bit too forward...thanks!
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    Rape her. She won't be friends with you then.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    So basically there's this girl I sort of like/would like to know better. However, I'm not sure if she's after a relationship or anything, but I wouldn't mind trying.
    I would like to avoid being friend-zoned, can anyone give any advice?
    Jesus...every day this same question 'how can I avoid the friends zone' seems to be asked.

    For the umpteenth time, here is the answer....

    Tell girls RIGHT FROM THE START of meeting them that you are attracted to them and that you want to get to know them because you are interested in being lovers and not just friends. Just be honest and direct about your intentions from the beginning.

    When you do this, one of 2 things will happen.....the girl will either RECIPROCATE your interest...in which case you hook up with her sexually/romantically.....

    OR.....the girl will REJECT your interest, in which case you cut off contact with her.

    NEVER agree to be a girl's 'friend' unless you genuinely have no sexual/romantic interest in her at all. You should always be in either the 'lovers zone' or the 'leave each other alone zone'. Never the 'friends zone'.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    ..however, I rarely see her in real life, but we do speak and text quite a bit.
    STOP texting, STOP emailing, STOP talking on Facebook, STOP being her 'online buddy, STOP being her 'text message buddy'.....all these things will lead you to the friends zone, which is what you are trying to avoid. Instead, meet up with her in the real world. OFF the computer, OFF the phone and meet face to face....

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I want to ask her to do something with me, but can't think of anywhere really. The cinema and stuff like that sounds too much like a date or might look a bit too forward...thanks!
    The cinema is 'too forward'? Jesus, you have a lot to learn. But anyway, the cinema is a terrible place to go for a first 'date'....you can't talk, and it's really cliched and a bit too predictable. Instead, meet her for a cup of coffee or go out to a quiet bar for a drink and get to know her that way.
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    (Original post by Dnator)
    To avoid the friend zone I just dont be friends with her, it is pretty simple. Then if she wants you she will come crawling (they always do) and if she doesn't who the fu.ck cares
    This it true. One of the most powerful things you can do is walk away from a girl who 'rejects' you. See, most guys sort of 'orbit' round girls they fancy who they aren't dating or having sex with, e.g. by texting them, talking on Facebook, talking on MSN messenger, etc. They are in this girl's 'friend zone', hoping that one day she will change her mind and start fancying them. But when you are willing to simply walk away from a girl who 'rejects' you, it can make them chase after you if they secretly have any interest in you You will stand out from other guys.

    So yeah, let a girl come to you after you've walked away from her. And when she does re-initiate contact with you, you have the upper hand because you're in the power position. I love how the psychology of these things work!
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    Neil, I know you've read stuff by alan roger currie, i've read that book too - I really enjoyed it.
    However, don't you think it's a bit stupid to just tell a girl you're attracted to her right away? Unfortunately it doesn't really work in society any more, especially for people my age (19), they'll just think you're a bit weird and needy.
    Besides, if the first thing i told her was that I was attracted to her, that'd just be wrong - I've become attracted to her from getting to know her, not her looks - though her looks are part of what initially made me talk to her.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Neil, I know you've read stuff by alan roger currie, i've read that book too - I really enjoyed it.
    However, don't you think it's a bit stupid to just tell a girl you're attracted to her right away? Unfortunately it doesn't really work in society any more, especially for people my age (19), they'll just think you're a bit weird and needy.
    Besides, if the first thing i told her was that I was attracted to her, that'd just be wrong - I've become attracted to her from getting to know her, not her looks - though her looks are part of what initially made me talk to her.
    I don't think he's saying come out with "Hey, I'm attracted to you, mate with me". It takes subtlety but firmness.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Neil, I know you've read stuff by alan roger currie,
    Yes, everyone knows I fully endorse Alan Roger Currie's 'Mode One' philosophy of being direct and honest with girls, and being a 'no bull****' kind of guy.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    i've read that book too - I really enjoyed it.
    I'm glad you enjoyed his book...however what amazes me is how some people can read 'Mode One' and 'get it' straight away, whereas other people can read it and not get it. I don't understand that....the concept is so darn simple that I fail to understand how people can miss the point of the book and still be questioning it after they've read it. Anyone who is against direct honesty is essentially for being dishonest.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    However, don't you think it's a bit stupid to just tell a girl you're attracted to her right away?
    No. What I think is stupid is being dishonest, hiding your intentions, and pretending you're not interested in a girl sexually/romantically when in reality you really are. What I think is stupid is trying to get a girl to have sex with you/date you by pretending/hiding your intentions.

    If you think it's stupid to be honest, then are you endorsing dishonesty and manipulation?

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Unfortunately it doesn't really work in society any more,
    Why do you mean 'it doesn't work in society any more'? How can direct honest 'not work'?

    Direct honesty works fine for me. Being honest and direct with girls weeds out those who are interested in you sexually/romantically from those who are not. I fail to see how direct honesty 'doesn't work'.

    How many direct approaches have you done? What happened when you went direct with girls? In what way did direct honesty 'not work' for you? I'm curious.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    especially for people my age (19), they'll just think you're a bit weird and needy.
    Really? I've never found this to be true. Direct honesty doesn't make you 'weird' or 'needy'. In fact it's the opposite. Direct honesty makes people perceive you as confident.

    However, when you approach a girl and it's obvious you like her but are afraid to tell her or you try to 'sneak in under the radar', THAT is when a guy comes across as 'weird' in my experience.

    But those who are straight up and honest with girls aren't 'weird' or 'needy'.

    I've never had a girl tell me I'm 'weird' or 'needy' for approaching her direct and honestly.

    If people perceive you as 'weird' or 'needy', then that's about YOU and your character traits, but nothing to do with direct honesty.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Besides, if the first thing i told her was that I was attracted to her, that'd just be wrong -
    What's wrong with telling a girl that you find her (physically) attractive and want to get to know her? How is this 'wrong'?

    The alternative is to hide your desires, lie to women, manipulate them, try to sneak in under the radar, etc. THESE things are wrong, but I fail to see how upfront honesty is 'wrong'.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I've become attracted to her from getting to know her, not her looks - though her looks are part of what initially made me talk to her.
    Sure, you can become more attracted to a girl's personality by getting to know her. But INITIALLY men are attracted to a girl by her looks....since that is the first thing we notice.

    If you think direct and honest approaches 'don't work', then what do you suggest instead? I'd be interested in your replies to this....
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    (Original post by Johnny Christ)
    I don't think he's saying come out with "Hey, I'm attracted to you, mate with me". It takes subtlety but firmness.
    It takes balls and confidence to be direct and upfront with women about your intentions.

    Essentially you want to approach a girl and tell her you think she's attractive and that you'd love to get to know her, instead of doing what 99.99999% of other guys do and talk about a bunch of trivial small talk and hide your desires etc.

    I don't have a pre-planned opening line when I approach a girl, I just say whatever my true and honest thoughts are at that moment. But typically I will walk up to a girl and let her know I think she's attractive, to which they usually respond 'Thank you!' while smiling and blushing, then I will tell her I'd love to get to know her and I suggest getting together with her some time in the next few weeks. I'll introduce myself and shake her hand, then give her my business card and tell her to give me a call in the next few weeks if she fancies getting together and getting to know each other.

    Sometimes I'll start with a compliment about the girl's looks, appearance, what she is wearing etc...basically whatever about her I find physically attractive. Women really respond well to this too.

    I also make it clear I'm looking for a lover and not just a friend and tell them not to waste my time if they're not interested.

    Seriously, direct approaches work fantastically well and I usually get a good response from women when I approach like this, even if they are already taken or if they're not interested in taking things any further. Direct honesty is a breath of fresh air to women these days, because most men are full of **** when they approach girls, so if you are one of those rare people who can approach a girl direct then you automatically stand out from other men.

    People who say direct approaches 'don't work' either haven't actually tried enough of them, or they might be speaking with a weak tone of voice, not looking the girl in the eye, etc. You have to approach with a boatload of confidence and charm to pull off this kind of approach, but it really does work.
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    (Original post by Neil_K)
    Yes, everyone knows I fully endorse Alan Roger Currie's 'Mode One' philosophy of being direct and honest with girls, and being a 'no bull****' kind of guy.



    I'm glad you enjoyed his book...however what amazes me is how some people can read 'Mode One' and 'get it' straight away, whereas other people can read it and not get it. I don't understand that....the concept is so darn simple that I fail to understand how people can miss the point of the book and still be questioning it after they've read it. Anyone who is against direct honesty is essentially for being dishonest.



    No. What I think is stupid is being dishonest, hiding your intentions, and pretending you're not interested in a girl sexually/romantically when in reality you really are. What I think is stupid is trying to get a girl to have sex with you/date you by pretending/hiding your intentions.

    If you think it's stupid to be honest, then are you endorsing dishonesty and manipulation?



    Why do you mean 'it doesn't work in society any more'? How can direct honest 'not work'?

    Direct honesty works fine for me. Being honest and direct with girls weeds out those who are interested in you sexually/romantically from those who are not. I fail to see how direct honesty 'doesn't work'.

    How many direct approaches have you done? What happened when you went direct with girls? In what way did direct honesty 'not work' for you? I'm curious.



    Really? I've never found this to be true. Direct honesty doesn't make you 'weird' or 'needy'. In fact it's the opposite. Direct honesty makes people perceive you as confident.

    However, when you approach a girl and it's obvious you like her but are afraid to tell her or you try to 'sneak in under the radar', THAT is when a guy comes across as 'weird' in my experience.

    But those who are straight up and honest with girls aren't 'weird' or 'needy'.

    I've never had a girl tell me I'm 'weird' or 'needy' for approaching her direct and honestly.

    If people perceive you as 'weird' or 'needy', then that's about YOU and your character traits, but nothing to do with direct honesty.



    What's wrong with telling a girl that you find her (physically) attractive and want to get to know her? How is this 'wrong'?

    The alternative is to hide your desires, lie to women, manipulate them, try to sneak in under the radar, etc. THESE things are wrong, but I fail to see how upfront honesty is 'wrong'.



    Sure, you can become more attracted to a girl's personality by getting to know her. But INITIALLY men are attracted to a girl by her looks....since that is the first thing we notice.

    I'd be interested in your replies to this....
    It's not really that I don't get it...it's that I'm not really going to practice his ideas as vigorously as you seem to - I'm pretty sure i've even read that Alan actually advises people to not carry out his advice in Mode one.

    And girls these days, they play a lot of games, I've had girls complain to me about other boys being so forward about or towards them, they usually seem to suggest that it fufils the qualities of a stereotypical 'guy' - only being interested in sex etc etc.

    I'm not saying it's stupid to be honest altogether, just a bit stupid to tell a girl you're attracted to her without knowing her very well. Looks on a girl attract me, but not enough to make me want to do anything about it, therefore I want to get to know them first.

    I do agree with what you've said against me saying about seeming weird and needy - however, I've read many times that being so forward with a girl comes across as needy!

    And telling her I find her physically attractive, it just doesn't seem to go down well - I rarely flatter girls or give them compliments, it seems to give them an upperhand - I'm pretty sure Currie says not to compliment women, and saying you find them physically attractive, although it may be honesty, will most likely be taken as a compliment.

    If every girl spoke complete honesty, didn't play games etc then this whole concept would be fine, but in my experience, and people i've seen around me, on the internet, books etc, being completely straight up just doesn't seem to work. It's usually just seen as creepy.
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    Be horrible to her and then she won't really think of you as a friend.. :mmm:

    Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen. :sexface:
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    I think there are lot of gaps in your understanding of Mode One and direct honesty....

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    II'm pretty sure i've even read that Alan actually advises people to not carry out his advice in Mode one.
    Where on earth did you read that? Alan advises people NOT to carry out advice in his ebooks?

    This simply isn't true dude.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    And girls these days, they play a lot of games,
    This is EXACTLY why you need to be Mode One with all women. Because if you approach women by being dishonest and vague about your intentions, you leave the door wide open for them to toy with you and play games with you.

    But when you are upfront and honest with a girl, you put her in a position where she has to either reciprocate or reject you....she can't toy with you or manipulate you or 'lead you on'.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I've had girls complain to me about other boys being so forward about or towards them, they usually seem to suggest that it fufils the qualities of a stereotypical 'guy' - only being interested in sex etc etc.
    It's highly likely that these guys they complain about just blurt out stupid stuff like 'hey sexy' or 'omg you're fit/wanna ****' etc. That's not TRUE direct. There is a difference between being classy and confident direct and just being stupid/horndog forward with women.

    The guys these girls complain about are likely to be stupid and immature.

    But I've NEVER had a girl complain to me about me approaching her direct and honestly. I've had girls tell me I'm 'really forward', but not in a complaining or disgusted sort of way.

    So yeah, you have to have some class and charm when you approach a girl direct, and not just be an immature and clueless **** like the guys you mention that these girls complain about.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I'm not saying it's stupid to be honest altogether, just a bit stupid to tell a girl you're attracted to her without knowing her very well.
    You can tell her straight away that you're physically attracted to her and that you'd love to get to know her. That way, you let her know you're attracted to her looks but you also want to get to know her personality more. This works great for me and a lot of other Mode One guys.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Looks on a girl attract me, but not enough to make me want to do anything about it, therefore I want to get to know them first.
    You still need to make it clear that you're getting to know her because you are interested in being lovers and not just friends. If you just start getting to know a girl without letting her know you're attracted to her/you're interested in being lovers, then you risk being put in the friend zone.

    I mean....'getting to know a girl' could have platonic connotations. 'Getting to know a girl' could have romantic/sexual connotations. How is a girl going to know whether you are interested in her as a platonic friend or as a lover if you 'get to know her' but don't state your intentions?

    You need to state your intentions upfront, BEFORE you get to know a girl. Otherwise, you could spend a lot of time getting to know a girl who only sees you as a platonic friend, and then you're going to be pissed off and angry that you spent all that time 'getting to know her' and then she tells you she 'just wants to be friends'.

    Better to let a girl know upfront you're attracted to her, and that you're getting to know her because you're looking for a lover and not just a friend. This way, if a girl isn't interested in you sexually/romantically, she'll let you know BEFORE you spend time getting to know her. You can then focus only on getting to know girls who are potentially interested in you romantically/sexually instead of wasting time on girls who only see you in a platonic way.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I've read many times that being so forward with a girl comes across as needy!
    If you approach a girl from a position of weakness and act like you NEED her attention, then you'll come across as 'needy'.

    But if you confidently approach a girl and let her know you find her attractive and that you'd love to get to know her, AND if you are willing to walk away if she's not interested, you'll come across as confident and non-needy.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    And telling her I find her physically attractive, it just doesn't seem to go down well - I rarely flatter girls or give them compliments, it seems to give them an upperhand -
    I'm surprised you say 'it doesn't go down well' when you tell a girl you think she's physically attractive.

    I've never found it gives them the 'upper hand'....I've found it puts them in a position where they have to let me know their intentions. Since I'm being honest with them, it gets them to be honest with me. Neither party wastes time wondering what the other person's intentions are, etc.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I'm pretty sure Currie says not to compliment women, and saying you find them physically attractive, although it may be honesty, will most likely be taken as a compliment.
    Alan doesn't say not to compliment them. He just says don't compliment them without stating your intentions, and don't compliment just to gain 'brownie points'. If your compliment is truly sincere and is what your are truly and honestly thinking, then yes you should compliment them.

    Also, Alan's colleague, David X, who is also direct and honest with women, says to start with a compliment....he tells guys to ask themselves 'what about her turns me on', then to walk over to the girl and tell her honestly what you've noticed. This works fantastically well in my experience. You might want to check out some of David X's free interviews where he talks about this (he's also been on Alan's radio show several times):-

    http://www.davidxdating.com/videos.html

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    If every girl spoke complete honesty, didn't play games etc then this whole concept would be fine,
    No, you've got that BACKWARDS. It is BECAUSE women play games that direct honesty is needed. By being direct and honest with women, they can't toy with you or play games, whereas when you are indirect and vague with women about your intentions, this is where they can toy with you, waste your time and lead you on.

    If you play games with women, they will play games with you. If you're honest with them, you put them in a position where they have to be honest with you about THEIR intentions.

    Mode One/direct honesty is your bullet proof vest against games, manipulation, etc.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    but in my experience, and people i've seen around me, on the internet, books etc, being completely straight up just doesn't seem to work. It's usually just seen as creepy.
    Again, it's not direct honesty that's creepy...it's THEM who are creepy.

    My hunch is that you haven't done many direct approaches. You seem confused about a lot of aspects of this kind of approach, and you have a lot of unfounded misconceptions about it. My advice would be to go out one day to a shopping centre or to a nightclub and approach 10 or more girls and just be upfront and honest with them in the way I've described. You'll be surprised how well women respond to direct, sincere honesty. Once you've done this, report back with your results.
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    although what neil is saying is a bit idealistic and i tend to loathe idealism, i agree with what he's saying

    as a girl, this would work on me. i can't think of any girls that i know that this wouldn't work on. simples.
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    (Original post by arabie)
    although what neil is saying is a bit idealistic and i tend to loathe idealism, i agree with what he's saying

    as a girl, this would work on me. i can't think of any girls that i know that this wouldn't work on. simples.
    But do you not think that if you were straight up and honest right away with a girl/you, she/you wouldn't have much of a chance to reciprocate the feelings? At least not very bluntly or quickly.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    But do you not think that if you were straight up and honest right away with a girl/you, she/you wouldn't have much of a chance to reciprocate the feelings? At least not very bluntly or quickly.
    you'd be planting the seed in her mind and if it grows, it grows. if not, you move on.

    i see where you're coming from - you want to test the waters i suppose, give her a chance to see your charm/your deeper layers and you're worried that by being straight up from the beginning, you're risking that never being seen?

    it's not really so much going up to a girl you like and saying 'look, i think you're hot. go out with me'.... it's just being a bit more confident and direct in your approach really - maybe the subtlety is something that will come with experience?

    last year, a friend started making more effort with me and talking to me more, and i'm pretty sure he liked me (strengthened by the fact that when nothing happened, he stopped making the extra effort) but he was just....... floating about. he didn't make any firm moves or say anything that made me think that he definitely liked me and that it was now up to me. it was just too much guessing work and reading signs. bleh, just be direct and let her know you like her one way or another.
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    (Original post by Neil_K)
    I think there are lot of gaps in your understanding of Mode One and direct honesty....



    Where on earth did you read that? Alan advises people NOT to carry out advice in his ebooks?

    This simply isn't true dude.



    This is EXACTLY why you need to be Mode One with all women. Because if you approach women by being dishonest and vague about your intentions, you leave the door wide open for them to toy with you and play games with you.

    But when you are upfront and honest with a girl, you put her in a position where she has to either reciprocate or reject you....she can't toy with you or manipulate you or 'lead you on'.



    It's highly likely that these guys they complain about just blurt out stupid stuff like 'hey sexy' or 'omg you're fit/wanna ****' etc. That's not TRUE direct. There is a difference between being classy and confident direct and just being stupid/horndog forward with women.

    The guys these girls complain about are likely to be stupid and immature.

    But I've NEVER had a girl complain to me about me approaching her direct and honestly. I've had girls tell me I'm 'really forward', but not in a complaining or disgusted sort of way.

    So yeah, you have to have some class and charm when you approach a girl direct, and not just be an immature and clueless **** like the guys you mention that these girls complain about.



    You can tell her straight away that you're physically attracted to her and that you'd love to get to know her. That way, you let her know you're attracted to her looks but you also want to get to know her personality more. This works great for me and a lot of other Mode One guys.



    You still need to make it clear that you're getting to know her because you are interested in being lovers and not just friends. If you just start getting to know a girl without letting her know you're attracted to her/you're interested in being lovers, then you risk being put in the friend zone.

    I mean....'getting to know a girl' could have platonic connotations. 'Getting to know a girl' could have romantic/sexual connotations. How is a girl going to know whether you are interested in her as a platonic friend or as a lover if you 'get to know her' but don't state your intentions?

    You need to state your intentions upfront, BEFORE you get to know a girl. Otherwise, you could spend a lot of time getting to know a girl who only sees you as a platonic friend, and then you're going to be pissed off and angry that you spent all that time 'getting to know her' and then she tells you she 'just wants to be friends'.

    Better to let a girl know upfront you're attracted to her, and that you're getting to know her because you're looking for a lover and not just a friend. This way, if a girl isn't interested in you sexually/romantically, she'll let you know BEFORE you spend time getting to know her. You can then focus only on getting to know girls who are potentially interested in you romantically/sexually instead of wasting time on girls who only see you in a platonic way.



    If you approach a girl from a position of weakness and act like you NEED her attention, then you'll come across as 'needy'.

    But if you confidently approach a girl and let her know you find her attractive and that you'd love to get to know her, AND if you are willing to walk away if she's not interested, you'll come across as confident and non-needy.



    I'm surprised you say 'it doesn't go down well' when you tell a girl you think she's physically attractive.

    I've never found it gives them the 'upper hand'....I've found it puts them in a position where they have to let me know their intentions. Since I'm being honest with them, it gets them to be honest with me. Neither party wastes time wondering what the other person's intentions are, etc.



    Alan doesn't say not to compliment them. He just says don't compliment them without stating your intentions, and don't compliment just to gain 'brownie points'. If your compliment is truly sincere and is what your are truly and honestly thinking, then yes you should compliment them.

    Also, Alan's colleague, David X, who is also direct and honest with women, says to start with a compliment....he tells guys to ask themselves 'what about her turns me on', then to walk over to the girl and tell her honestly what you've noticed. This works fantastically well in my experience. You might want to check out some of David X's free interviews where he talks about this (he's also been on Alan's radio show several times):-

    http://www.davidxdating.com/videos.html



    No, you've got that BACKWARDS. It is BECAUSE women play games that direct honesty is needed. By being direct and honest with women, they can't toy with you or play games, whereas when you are indirect and vague with women about your intentions, this is where they can toy with you, waste your time and lead you on.

    If you play games with women, they will play games with you. If you're honest with them, you put them in a position where they have to be honest with you about THEIR intentions.

    Mode One/direct honesty is your bullet proof vest against games, manipulation, etc.



    Again, it's not direct honesty that's creepy...it's THEM who are creepy.

    My hunch is that you haven't done many direct approaches. You seem confused about a lot of aspects of this kind of approach, and you have a lot of unfounded misconceptions about it. My advice would be to go out one day to a shopping centre or to a nightclub and approach 10 or more girls and just be upfront and honest with them in the way I've described. You'll be surprised how well women respond to direct, sincere honesty. Once you've done this, report back with your results.
    I've been reading a lot of your posts with a lot of interest and I am pleasantly surprised how many people seem to not like what you say despite it being honest and the most moral really. Goes to show how much people have wrong with what they think is right and what isn't.

    I wanted to ask you a few questions. Being someone who lacks confidence with the girls up til now and having finished a first term of uni with no luck on that front i decided my current approach wasn't working and i really need to completely change myself. Hey, being confident will only improve myself as a person, so it's not like i want to change just for the girls.

    But what i struggle to do is muster the courage in a social situation to put any effort in. I constantly tell myself that this is absolutely stupid of me but i keep being like that and lose any confidence of meeting new people.

    What i feel might be the best way for me to change myself is just by approaching girls in the street and then building on that. Thing is approaching has never been a point i have an idea with. Just like in a club i would have no idea what to say after 'Hey my name is...' or something. It's all good if you are in a position where you are comfortable with it and have got to the stage where you have the confidence and are good at it, but when you have had literally no luck with pulling or being with girls in the past it is a large boulder to overcome!

    Anyway as i was saying earlier i had a few questions for you if you would be kind enough to answer!
    On a night out how many girls do you generally talk to and what do you say, are you straight up with all of them, but how do you actually be able to talk in a club atmosphere without shouting!? Do you approach girls in groups (i'm guessing that's a yes as girls are generally never alone), do you approach by yourself? and do you go with other people or do you go alone? Just interested in the averages of how many you approach to how many you can get with.
    Also how long you been in the game for? Have you always been a confident lad? Or did you learn it yourself as i'm guessing by your reading up on the subject yourself. How long did it take to perfect and how bad were you starting off? Also another question which you don't have to answer but i'm just wondering if you think you are a good looking man or if you feel your "game" does most of the job?
    Approaching in the city/clubs, what sort of success rates? How often do you get laid?
    Do you think i should set targets for myself? Like for example losing my virginity in a certain amount of time of trying :/

    I'm constantly sick of being **** with girls so thought i would get this off my chest because apart from that part my life is believe it or not is pretty damn good. There is just that gaping hole with girls and whilst my best friends are generally pretty decent with girls and lost their virginity ages ago with the exception of one of my mates who's was quite recent, i hate it when they are talking about past encounters and i awkwardly sit those encounters out. I really want to improve and be better than even the mate of mine who has the best luck with girls and is on something approaching 20 girls now i think he has slept with. So yeh pretty open there but deffo pushin on anon for this post as a result of this. For the record, i have read the Mode One book you talk about and feel it is very helpful but it is the common scenarios i need to improve like opening liners and getting the confidence for it before i believe in myself. Changing your personality is incredibly hard and it is all good saying become this figure, but putting into action with no motivation from others is hard, hence why i'm coming to a forum and trying to get help from people like yourself. I don't want to be one of these people coming to the forum and making a post about being a virgin at 21 so want a change right now (i'm 18 atm, 6 foot 2, not muscular, quite thin at 11 and a half stone so you not that this matters much but just sayin'). Be as harsh as you want, i know i'm a pussy.

    Cheers mate, i appreciate it if you helped me here.
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    Look, the friend zone does not exist for the vast majority of girls and in the vast majority of situations. If she fancies you, she will most probably still fancy you if you become friends. In fact, she might start to fancy you after getting to know you better, or if she already did, she might start to fancy you even more. If you make a move on a female friend and she rejects you, it's most probably not because she has gone off you since becoming your friend. It's probably because she never fancied you in the first place.

    And another piece of advice: it's really quite obvious when a guy is playing the numbers game; i.e. he goes to a bar or club and hits on any female in sight with the hope that at least one will respond. It is so unattractive it is untrue. What is far more mature and attractive is to just make the move on girls you genuinely find attractive.
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    Whatever you do: DON'T BECOME HER THERAPIST!

    If they start to asking your advice on boyfriends and guys they're interested, or they want to talk about how sad they're feeling that day it tells you two things.

    1. They consider you as somebody trustworthy and close enough to talk about these things with.

    2. It also shows that they don't mind wasting your time and aren't too bothered about the image they're sending out to you. Think about it, you wouldn't moan about your life to a girl your interested in, at least i hope not

    The way to avoid the friendzone is to show that you have a life and have many other options than just her. Do this by being sociable with other girls in front of her and maybe even dating a girl to make her feel jealous or at least view you as someone who has an active romantic life.( I wouldn't do that though, it can end up hurting the girl your dating).

    Don't always be the one who iniates things. Wait for her to text you once in a while or let her be the one to talk to you on facebook. The fastest way to the friendzone is by spending far too much time with the girl. The way i think about it is: Imagine you've been saving up for a car for around a year or so and you've taken on an extra job etc. to get enough money. The day you buy that car you immediatley win the same car for free in a competition which you entered online a few months back. Your more likely to sell the one which you won in a competition for free than the one which you saved up for because you put more time and effort into the oen which you saved up for, therefore increasing it's worth pyschologically.

    The best advice i can give you is: See this girl in real life more and show her your good qualitys (Just be a fun person to be around). Don't spend too much time with her and then after a week or so of getting to know ask her out on a date. If she says no move on. Remember, the more you dither around nervously the closer you edge towards the friendzone.
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    Flirt.

    Just be subtly obvious that you think of her as more than a mate. It works :-)

    As I girl I would rather know straight up if a guy is interested, just makes things a lot easier! Just don't give mixed signals after, that's a big no no... cause then she'll get all confused.

    If you like her, just tell her. :-D
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    The friend zone is like Liam Neeson in Taken it will look for you, it will find you, and it will kill you.........
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I've been reading a lot of your posts with a lot of interest and I am pleasantly surprised how many people seem to not like what you say despite it being honest and the most moral really. Goes to show how much people have wrong with what they think is right and what isn't.
    It's a sign of how confused people in society are when they think they have to resorts to games, lies, manipulation, dishonesty etc to meet, date and have sex with the opposite sex. Most of the people on TSR are no exception.

    I'm all about honesty, trust and respect. In the long run, you'll do better with dating and relationships if you go by honesty, trust and respect rather than lies, games, manipulation etc.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    But what i struggle to do is muster the courage in a social situation to put any effort in. I constantly tell myself that this is absolutely stupid of me but i keep being like that and lose any confidence of meeting new people.
    At first you've got to force yourself to get out of the house and approach some girls. There is no 'magic secret'....you've just got to go out there and start approaching girls. Slowly but surely you will build your confidence up.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    What i feel might be the best way for me to change myself is just by approaching girls in the street and then building on that. Thing is approaching has never been a point i have an idea with.
    Just like in a club i would have no idea what to say after 'Hey my name is...' or something. It's all good if you are in a position where you are comfortable with it and have got to the stage where you have the confidence and are good at it, but when you have had literally no luck with pulling or being with girls in the past it is a large boulder to overcome!
    You don't have to change who you are fundamentally. You don't need to become someone you're not. That is why I dislike all the PUA stuff, because it teaches men to develop false 'PUA persona' instead of just being their true selves. What you have to do is simply be who you truly are, but not hide you sexual interest in girls.

    The street and other everyday situations are fantastic for meeting girls. I'd recommend them!

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    On a night out how many girls do you generally talk to and what do you say, are you straight up with all of them, but how do you actually be able to talk in a club atmosphere without shouting!?
    On a typical night out to a club, I might talk to 5, 10, 15 or 20 girls...I don't count and I don't have a specific number of women in mind when I go out. I simply approach as many girls I'm attracted to and let them know my intentions in the most direct and honest manner....and I see who's interested in me/who is not.

    That said, I rarely go to bars and clubs these days. I prefer daytime approaches, since I don't drink any more and I'm not as into the whole bar/club scene. I prefer to meet girls in the daytime when they're sober and I can get to know the true them rather than fake club persona they're putting on.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Do you approach girls in groups (i'm guessing that's a yes as girls are generally never alone),
    In the daytime, generally I approach girls who are either by themselves or in twos. See, women act differently when they're around their friends....a guy could approach a girl and she could be interested in him, but if she's around her friends and worried how they might react, she might 'reject' that guy for no other reason than she cares too much what her friends think.

    On the other hand, that same girl could act totally differently towards you when alone or with one other friend.

    At night in bars and clubs, you're correct that girls tend to go out in groups in a lot of case. You can still approach a girl even if she's part of a group in bar or club. Just get her attention, then say what you've got to say to her. And a lot of the time girls will split up from their group anyway and have a wander round the club....so there are plenty of opportunities to approach them on their own or when they're with no more than 1 other friend.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    do you approach by yourself? and do you go with other people or do you go alone? Just interested in the averages of how many you approach to how many you can get with.
    It's very rare I go out with other guys if I am looking for to meet girls. Very few of my male friends are on the same wavelength as me when it comes to meeting and dating women, and as much as they are great guys, they are a hindrance to me when it comes to meeting women.

    If I go to a bar or club, or if I go out in the daytime to a shopping mall etc, I don't want to be stood around talking to my male friends...I want to be approaching and meeting women, and I want to keep focused on that with no distractions.

    That said, I do have a couple of friends in different parts of the UK who understand this whole direct/Mode One philosophy of meeting women and we occasionally go out together to meet women. They are cool guys and the only ones who are on my wavelength when it comes to approaching women. But 99% of the time I work alone.

    Also, a confident guy doesn't need to be surrounded by an entourage of friends in order to meet women. My advice to you is always work alone.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Also how long you been in the game for? Have you always been a confident lad? Or did you learn it yourself as i'm guessing by your reading up on the subject yourself. How long did it take to perfect and how bad were you starting off? Also another question which you don't have to answer but i'm just wondering if you think you are a good looking man or if you feel your "game" does most of the job?
    Approaching in the city/clubs, what sort of success rates? How often do you get laid?
    Do you think i should set targets for myself? Like for example losing my virginity in a certain amount of time of trying :/
    Your only goal should be to go out and approach all girls you're attracted to and let them know honestly that you find them attractive, and let them know what you are looking for from them. The results will take care of themselves.

    In fact, for the next 2 weeks, approach 5 girls a day. That's 70 girls you'll have approached by the end of the 2 weeks. If you can stick to this, you'll definitely be over your fears of women by the end of the 2 weeks. Start as of tomorrow....no excuses! Go to your local town or city centre or shopping mall or go to a nightclub, I don't care....but just make sure you approach 5 girls a day for the next 2 weeks. You'll get this down no problem if you can do that.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I'm constantly sick of being **** with girls so thought i would get this off my chest because apart from that part my life is believe it or not is pretty damn good.
    I can understand what it must be like to be frustrated about this. Eventually, you'll get to the point where you'll realise dating and sex are not the be all and end all of life and you'll calm down and stop caring about 'getting girls' so much. That's the stage I've personally reached. And ironically, when you stop caring about sex so much, women actually want you more.

    You'll get plenty of girls soon enough if you follow my advice.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    There is just that gaping hole with girls and whilst my best friends are generally pretty decent with girls and lost their virginity ages ago with the exception of one of my mates who's was quite recent, i hate it when they are talking about past encounters and i awkwardly sit those encounters out. I really want to improve and be better than even the mate of mine who has the best luck with girls and is on something approaching 20 girls now i think he has slept with. So yeh pretty open there but deffo pushin on anon for this post as a result of this. For the record, i have read the Mode One book you talk about and feel it is very helpful but it is the common scenarios i need to improve like opening liners and getting the confidence for it before i believe in myself.
    Well first of all, don't compare yourself to your friends. Who cares if your mates have slept with more women than you? It means NOTHING. It's not a contest. And you shouldn't base your self-worth or 'manliness' on how many women you have or haven't slept with. It's just sex. They're just women (i.e. just people). You should sleep with women because it's something you and the girl you've met enjoy, and not to impress your mates or look good in their eyes etc. You're not a better person just because you've 'lost your virginity'. Too many people base their self worth on whether they are a 'virgin' or not. It's bull**** really. Nothing changes after you've lost your virginity.

    As for 'opening lines'....the idea behind Mode One is that you don't use any 'per rehearsed' 'opening lines' etc....you simply say WHATEVER IS ON YOUR MIND when you see a girl you are physically attracted to. Just walk over to her and let her know you think she's attractive and that you'd like to get to know her. Make sure you look her in the eyes when you approach, and talk with a clear and loud enough voice. No mumbling, or you'll come across as creepy and under-confident.

    You can also compliment her appearance, her outfit or whatever else about her you like. Then suggest getting together with her sometime to get to know her. See what she says. If she seems interested, give her your number and tell her to call you when she's not busy and if she fancies getting together.

    Don't take a girl's number unless she offers it to you. You want girls to have to call you, thereby putting you in the power position and leaving you with the upper hand when they call you.

    So in summary....just approach whoever you like the look of, any time, any place...let them know you're attracted to them in the most honest, charming and direct manner, and suggest meeting up with them so you can get to know each other. Give the girl a way to contact you so if she's interested then she can get in touch with you. The girls who are interested WILL call.

    Once a girl calls you, keep the conversation brief, arrange to meet up with her for a cup of coffee or a drink in a quiet bar. Get to know each other, let her know what you're looking for, then get her back to your place (or go to her place) and have sex with her.

    For bars and clubs, if you want a girl to take home the same night, then you can bypass the number bit and just tell them straight that you're looking for a girl for one night of no strings casual sex and then ask her if she's interested. Ask her what she's up to later in the night and suggest going back to yours or her place later. Tell her to come and find you later in the night if she's interested. You can also give her your number so she's got a way to get in touch with you later in the night if she can't find you. Then basically later in the night you get together with them again and take them back to yours or their place to have sex.

    This has worked fine for me in the past...the bold, straight up approach turns girls on (the ones who think you're attractive anyway) and if they're interested they WILL seek you out later in the night. No beating around the bush, just be honest with girls in bars and clubs that you think they're attractive and tell them what you're looking for and then see who's interested/who isn't.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Changing your personality is incredibly hard and it is all good saying become this figure, but putting into action with no motivation from others is hard, hence why i'm coming to a forum and trying to get help from people like yourself. I don't want to be one of these people coming to the forum and making a post about being a virgin at 21 so want a change right now (i'm 18 atm, 6 foot 2, not muscular, quite thin at 11 and a half stone so you not that this matters much but just sayin'). Be as harsh as you want, i know i'm a pussy.
    You need to come out of your shell more and as I said it's not about changing who you are fundamentally, you just need to be a more confident version of yourself.

    If you can start walking up to 5 women a day for the next couple of weeks and just let them all know you think they're attractive and that you're interested in getting to know them, and suggest getting together with them, you'll be over your fears in no time. And you'll probably get a few dates here and there too.

    Another thing....if all you want from a girl is just sex, SAY SO. Don't hide your intentions. Just be honest. A lot of girls will appreciate the honesty, even if they're not interested. And by being straight up and honest, you'll weed out who's interested in you sexually from who isn't without wasting time, money and emotional energy on those girls who aren't genuinely interested.
 
 
 
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