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    Hey guys,

    I have already interned in Sales at a BB last summer and enjoyed the buzz on the trading floor. However, as stories such as the eurozone crisis, the US credit boom, effects of Basel III etc really fascinate me and I enjoy reading books/articles on it and learning more about it, I have asked myself whether Research (Macro) could be the more exciting job for me.

    I have already sent e-mails to people in both areas and waiting for responses, however I wanted to hear what you guys thought personally and also wanted to ask the kind of questions that I can't ask the other guys, for example;

    1) what kind of exit opps would a macro/econ research person have as opposed to a sales person
    2) how different are the hours
    3) what's the pay difference at the beginning of the career and later on?

    Thanks a lot for your time!
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    Hey Ecco,

    I did equity research at Citi - stocks analyst (so not macro). But hopefully this will give you a flavour

    1. Exit opps - better. Sales is pretty dead-ended. You have your client portfolio, but generally (unless you're spec(ialised) sales) you don't really have any content knowledge or transferable skills. You can't go into trading (the 95% in-road I've seen is to start as a trader), research (you're too generalised with no content skills), IBD (same problem as research), structuring (same problem as research) corporates (your client portfolio is irrelevant), buy side (same problem as corporates). Conversely, research (note that I'm talking about stock analysts, but I imagine its the same for macro) provides access to (1) Sales (2) hedge funds (I'm certain you could join a macro fund)... which may end up in a portfolio manager role (i.e. high value trading) (3) Various economic advisory firms / think tanks (4) Certain consultancies (probably economic consultancies). I'd also imagine that you *may* have some transferability into various desks such as rates or commods. A growing theme is for the researchers to sit on the trading desks. Often they can use this to request transfers into trading... usually starting with a small personal trading account... note that the full transition can take a while

    2. The hours - similar. In equity research, I was in the office for 7. Out by 6.30 or so (though obviously I had later nights than that!). Equity sales was in at 6.15 / 6.30 for the trader call. They were out around 6ish.... so roughly the same hours. Though sales don't pull late nights very often... unless you count socialising with clients as late nights. Equity sales had more early mornings as they had to deal with more company earnings reports

    3. Pay difference. Negligible, if any at all (once again, talking about equity research). You get paid on the commission you generate in both jobs. Maybe sales pips research slightly but, I'm guessing by 5-10%s

    I would focus most on the exit options. The researcher that moves to buyside is minted relative to the sales guy who's stuck on sellside. And the researcher can always switch into sales, but sales can't switch into research

    P
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    As someone who wants to work in Research but want to avoid equity research and work in rates/ FX or macro research i want to say: thank you for the feedback. It is quite rare in the career fairs/ company presentations to find somebody who has worked in research (at least in France)

    One or two additional questions: i know that generally BBs make you rotate on several desks during the first year (barcap) sop i suppose you cannot get stuck in a sector you don't like but is it possible i might end up on a desk that was not one of your first choices? Is it more difficult to get into macro/ strategy research (less positions but also i suppose less persons applying)?
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    Hi Wotton, No problem. Happy to help.

    Yep it's pretty rare over here too. Main reason (over here) is that most banks don't recruit from grad into research so they don't need to represent research at the fairs. Research typically only recruits experienced hires.

    Yes you can get stuck on a desk you don't like via a rotation programme. I know people that have. But I don't reckon it's massively common. Ultimately, the rotations are another job interview. Typically you end up on a desk where you enjoyed the work / ppl and they liked you too. Probably because it's a little self-fulfilling - you'll do better on desks which you like. And if you do better, the ppl like you more. I suppose HR deserves a little credit too for balancing people's preferences well. No bank wants to have you sat doing something you don't want to do - it's likely you'll leave as soon as you can

    Don't know how easy / hard it is to get into macro vs. other areas

    Cheers,

    P
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    I've been on Rates Research (very closely related with Macro Research, head economist sat together with us) and Equity research and they are both very different.
    Hours are ca. 7/8 till 6-9. Unlike ER, some can pretty much come and go as they like, unless theres actual news.
    Pay (at least for Rates research) is quite a bit lower, esp in the latter stages of the career unless you become head economist or something. Due to the nature of Macro work, I'd think its difficult to lateral into a S&T role. However you can move int oa strategist/research role at a hedge fund or any other kind of buy side firm. From there moving into S&T is easier (e.g. Macro Research -> Rates Strat -> Trading)
    Moving into an actual Economics research firm, think tank, i'd imagine to be difficult aswell, as the Economics they do is not on a very academic level (they say so themselves).
    Oh and qualification wise... I tihnk everyone at the Macro desk I was at were lateral hires from places such as BoE or PhDs/Academia. So they all had quite a bit of Macro experience already. Said they'd expect a graduate have at least Masters degree Macro experience.

    I'd recommend you look into Fixed income research (FX, Rates, Commodities) as the topics you mention are quite important there, and leave you a lot more doors open within the industry to move around. I'd also immaine its easier to get into that compared to Macro research.

    I should also mention that ER also has a Macro or Strategy team, where they take a macro view across sectors. So that'd also be worth looking into.
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    Great thread, great advice!
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    Nice one, thanks for the responses!

    The thing is that I fail to see how someone in Macro Research can directly be associated with generating trades, and as I realised during my internship in Sales, revenue-generating can be very satisfying, as it gives you an idea of what you've achieved during the day. Obviously this also has an impact on the bonus/commission.. What do you guys say?

    Also, is there a role that would combine to some extent the Sales experience / being on the trading floor, and the Macro/Research focus?
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    (Original post by eccozcoz)
    Nice one, thanks for the responses!

    The thing is that I fail to see how someone in Macro Research can directly be associated with generating trades, and as I realised during my internship in Sales, revenue-generating can be very satisfying, as it gives you an idea of what you've achieved during the day. Obviously this also has an impact on the bonus/commission.. What do you guys say?

    Also, is there a role that would combine to some extent the Sales experience / being on the trading floor, and the Macro/Research focus?
    Fixed Income research, specificaly FX and Rates
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    I work in equity research for a fund, we don't have too many macro guys and they're all older. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

    (Original post by eccozcoz)
    The thing is that I fail to see how someone in Macro Research can directly be associated with generating trades, and as I realised during my internship in Sales, revenue-generating can be very satisfying, as it gives you an idea of what you've achieved during the day. Obviously this also has an impact on the bonus/commission.. What do you guys say?
    Yep I can't see how they would generate trades either. You definitely want to work sell-side then? Have you considered applying to hedge funds renowned for a macro outlook? BH an obvious example..
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    (Original post by The IC Guy)
    I work in equity research for a fund, we don't have too many macro guys and they're all older. Let me know if you have any specific questions.



    Yep I can't see how they would generate trades either. You definitely want to work sell-side then? Have you considered applying to hedge funds renowned for a macro outlook? BH an obvious example..
    Thanks!
    But isn't it insanely difficult to enter a HF for an undergrad?
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      Well, if you're good enough, you can get in. It's as simple/difficult as that.
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      (Original post by eccozcoz)
      Thanks!
      But isn't it insanely difficult to enter a HF for an undergrad?
      It's not impossible, I'll pm you the recruitment consultant that got me an interview with BH. Get a CV/cover to as many recruitment consultants as possible, make it clear that you're after a role related to macro research. You never know you could get lucky. Obviously this approach will just augment doing the standard online application forms.

      You could also apply to some of the mutual funds directly, most have a regular graduate intake.. I've not heard of any ever taking anyone on specifically for 'macro research' tbh though.

      Maybe others on here will disagree with this advice?
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        (Original post by The IC Guy)
        It's not impossible, I'll pm you the recruitment consultant that got me an interview with BH. Get a CV/cover to as many recruitment consultants as possible, make it clear that you're after a role related to macro research. You never know you could get lucky. Obviously this approach will just augment doing the standard online application forms.

        You could also apply to some of the mutual funds directly, most have a regular graduate intake.. I've not heard of any ever taking anyone on specifically for 'macro research' tbh though.

        Maybe others on here will disagree with this advice?
        The problem with headhunters is that they get paid so long as the role is filled - so they end up sending in just about any old **** candidate hoping that this one leads to payday or fulfills some sort of 'standing mandate' that is always open.

        The short answer to macro research is that no one is going to teach you how to do it, so if you genuinely believe you could do their jobs NOW, go for it. I think it's possible for a university student to match up to and exceed their work. It's rarely clever, it's just the product of a lot of manhours.
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        oh jsut remebered.. Deutsche has a specific graduate track for their economics department
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        Somewhat related question that doesn't warrant its own thread; would it be possible to get unpaid work experience through headhunters? I know they get paid for every person that gets employed through them, but how would they feel about giving out names of small firms who might be open to accepting someone for unpaid work?

        The IC guy, could you please pm me the email address aswell?
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        You can move into prime brokerage from sales.
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        sorry to bring this thread up again, but I guess it's better than starting a new one on the same topic. also, most of the answers here have been pretty constructive!

        trust me, I've assessed almost all factors in the decision on whether to start in sales or macro / rates research, so please don't judge that I'm asking the 'bad' question;

        what kind of pay differential could one expect between let's say a rates salesperson and a rates research person, ceteris paribus / same level of success on the job etc..., in the first 2-3 years?

        thanks again!
       
       
       
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