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Trophy Hunting, Moral/Ethical Concerns? Watch

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    I myself have been hunting for a number of years, nothing quite comes close to the thrill of the hunt the tension of lining the shot and the concentration before the kill.
    Although I hunt with a slight difference.

    I hunt with a bow, and unfortunately this is illegal in England(although associations exist which are trying to get the ban on Bow Hunting lifted) so in order to actually carry through with my hobby I have to take trips abroad to Europe, America ,Africa and Canada to hunt trophy, such as Deer and Boar, Impala's, Grouse, even Canadian Black bears.

    While regular rifle hunting can effectively take a stalk down from ranges in excess of 200 meters, archers will usually restrict shots to 30 meters or less (typically at 10 - 20 meters)to get an accurate and clean kill and harvest, this means much more emphasis has to be placed on avoiding detection and developing a keen awareness of your suroundings. The result of this is a much more intense and involved hunt.

    However over the past few years , ive had people come up to me(In my Club ,Online, In lectures) and argue that Hunting for Trophies, or indeed Hunting of "any" form is Morally reprehensible.
    Just the other day a woman from my Archery Club felt inclined to lecture me on the error of my ways.
    Moreover ive had Rifle Hunters erroneously tell me bow hunting is cruel.

    I of course am of the opinion that hunting for Sport or Trophy is perfectly acceptable and plain old fun.

    Discuss:
    Is Hunting morally justifiable
    Is Trophy Hunting morally justifiable
    Is Bow Hunting humane?
    Should Bow hunting restrictions in England and other countries be reconsidered?






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    It's all acceptable if you're planning on eating it.

    If you're killing for the lulz, then that's not really necessary, and nobody is impressed by what you do.
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    I think in the heat of the debate we often forget the basic principal of living organisms; seek sustenance from the resources around you.

    Hunting is simply another way of procuring sustenance (if you are going to use it for food) and isn't particularly much different than rearing chickens to eat, or other farm animals. The difference is the culture that has evolved around the industrialised ways in which we consume our food. It has become ethically justified to rear millions of pigs to keep up with demand for pork, ham and bacon, often pumping them up with growth steroids, because consumption of these products in everyday foods is high and ranges across all walks of life. In contrast, hunting (as a personal endeavour) has been seen as an upper-class past-time, an activity of gluttony and self-interest.

    To shorten it down, if you're stupid enough to hang a piece of dead animal on your living room wall, I really don't care as long as the systematic slaughter of such animal goes to the basic principal of living organisms; sustenance. However, if you're needlessly doing this for the sake of it, it is ethically reprehensible. If we applied your definition of 'let's just hunt whatever we like, for whatever reason', many creatures would be extinct (and many have, including various species of fish).

    FYI, using a piece of dead animal as a carcass makes you look like a buffoon.
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    (Original post by -KingWalnut-)
    It's all acceptable if you're planning on eating it.

    If you're killing for the lulz, then that's not really necessary, and nobody is impressed by what you do.
    To the contrary, hundreds of thousands of people "are impressed" by it.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    . However, if you're needlessly doing this for the sake of it, it is ethically reprehensible. If we applied your definition of 'let's just hunt whatever we like, for whatever reason', many creatures would be extinct (and many have, including various species of fish).

    FYI, using a piece of dead animal as a carcass makes you look like a buffoon.
    Ill address this mainly.

    One, why is it Ethically reprehensible, unless you are going to ascribe to an Absolute Morality, or argue that animals should be afforded rights on par with us, I just don't see how it can be.

    Secondly the vast Majority of Trophy hunting is strictly regulated, and many animal numbers are on the rise as compared to facing extinction, if there is no danger of extinction why then is trophy hunting still seen as wrong?
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    -
    Is Hunting morally justifiable
    Unless you plan on eating the animal then no, it's ****ing retarded. Curious... How do YOU morally justify killing an animal (for fun)? Don't bother saying "tradition" or "fun" because if they are your reasons then sorry but they are not good enough.

    Is Trophy Hunting morally justifiable
    Never.

    Is Bow Hunting humane?
    Worse than using a gun.

    Should Bow hunting restrictions in England and other countries be reconsidered?
    No but I'm sure you'll get support from the Crossbow Cannibal.

    All in all hunting is a horrible and outdated "tradition". The only time I can really understand it, is when it's done by tribal people who have no other means to feed their family and even then they tend to have a lot of respect for the wild and animals and in most cases they utilize ALL of the animal.

    I don't know... Maybe you operate under the false pretense that if something has four legs as opposed to two it can't possibly feel pain, experience emotion/fear, have children etc. One of the worst justifications for hunting is to "control a population" well you know, you don't need to set out with 20 horses and 50 dogs to do that. Hunters know it's a savage blood "sport" and that's why they like it.

    If you can find it in your heart to set a pack of dogs upon, or shoot wonderful creatures like these then there's no hope for you and probably your offspring.





    This is not to mention some of the greatest creatures to ever grace this planet and honor us with their very presence are being hunted to extinction. What a tragedy... An absolute ****ing tragedy it would be for my children and their children to grow up in a world without the likes of:



    Although illegal whaling still nets around 1000 of these wonders per year:











    In fact there's so many amazing species already extinct... Such a shame. Not all of it is 100% hunting however in the wake of other indirect factors (human expansion etc) you'd have to be a **** to go out and actively hunt such creatures never giving them a chance to recover.

    I mean really... Trying to get in your head. Do you feel like a man sneaking up on an animal and killing it with an advanced weapon (guns or modern bows)? The animal never really stands a chance. In fact you're a coward. Strong opinion but it's something that I feel strongly about.
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)

    Secondly the vast Majority of Trophy hunting is strictly regulated, and many animal numbers are on the rise as compared to facing extinction, if there is no danger of extinction why then is trophy hunting still seen as wrong?
    Because your killing for no other reason than your own gratification at the expense of another animals life. IMO that is wrong and immoral. Should you need to hunt for food, or hunt to keep populations under control, or hunt for any other rationally justifiable reason then go for it, but your taking an animals life for your own pleasure and nothing else. Im not suggesting that animals have the same rights as we do, but there is no reason why your enjoyment should be more important than their existence. Billions of people have fun without killing anything, so why do you feel the need to kill something to have fun? Do you get a kick from the feeling of power over the animal? Your bigger and better because you have a more intelligent brain?


    Aside from that I doubt you get a clean kill very often - you cant cause enough damage to the vital organs with a bow and arrow to kill swiftly like you would with a rifle round. How many arrows does it normally take you to down something like a deer?
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    Discuss:
    Is Hunting morally justifiable
    Is Trophy Hunting morally justifiable
    Is Bow Hunting humane?
    Should Bow hunting restrictions in England and other countries be reconsidered?
    Oh course hunting is justifiable, we are animals ourselves, and so our hunting is as justifiable as any other animal's, and seeing as a LOT of species hunt and kill for pleasure when they don't actually require the food, why can't we? I personally think that you should at least have the respect for the quarry though, and ought to demonstrate this through clean instant kill shots. And I don't personally know much about bow hunting, but as both a hunter and an archer I do not doubt in the least that modern compound bows are up to the job in both accuracy and power, so I'd take a guess and say it is as humane as any other form of shooting.





    Unless you plan on eating the animal then no, it's ****ing retarded. Curious... How do YOU morally justify killing an animal (for fun)? Don't bother saying "tradition" or "fun" because if they are your reasons then sorry but they are not good enough.

    All in all hunting is a horrible and outdated "tradition". The only time I can really understand it, is when it's done by tribal people who have no other means to feed their family and even then they tend to have a lot of respect for the wild and animals and in most cases they utilize ALL of the animal.
    Do you think that we should..err.. 'remove' all carnivores and omnivores then?

    Also, if you are not a vegan then I have absolutely no respect for you whatsoever; in Britain, one of the most hunted species are rabbits, as their population growth is massive and they really do cause a lot of damage, so the rabbit will have lived a natural, wild life for about two years on average (with their wild lifespans rarely getting more than 3/4 years) and will then die instantaneously with little to no pain, and often will then be utilised, are you really trying to say this is worse than modern day cattle farms???

    I don't know... Maybe you operate under the false pretense that if something has four legs as opposed to two it can't possibly feel pain, experience emotion/fear, have children etc. One of the worst justifications for hunting is to "control a population" well you know, you don't need to set out with 20 horses and 50 dogs to do that. Hunters know it's a savage blood "sport" and that's why they like it.
    That is one small subsection of hunting, C'MON!!! Fox hunting is completely different to 90% of all other hunting, so shut the **** up its already banned for God's sake.

    In fact there's so many amazing species already extinct... Such a shame. Not all of it is 100% hunting however in the wake of other indirect factors (human expansion etc) you'd have to be a **** to go out and actively hunt such creatures never giving them a chance to recover.
    I'm sorry, but rats, pigeons and rabbits are hardly suffering in Britain, are they? And I have no empathy or caring for the well being of disease infested, suffering animals like feral pigeons (don't even bother disputing that).

    I mean really... Trying to get in your head. Do you feel like a man sneaking up on an animal and killing it with an advanced weapon (guns or modern bows)? The animal never really stands a chance. In fact you're a coward. Strong opinion but it's something that I feel strongly about.
    Are you saying hunters should do it with their only their natural bodies? Like fists and feet? First off, thats hardly as humane as a single shot through the head instantly ending their life nigh on painlessly, and secondly, we evolved to have large brains so we could have the advantage through other objects (starting off with the simple wooden spear), so the argument of "fairness" is complete bull****.
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    (Original post by thisisnew)
    Unless you plan on eating the animal then no, it's ****ing retarded. Curious... How do YOU morally justify killing an animal (for fun)? Don't bother saying "tradition" or "fun" because if they are your reasons then sorry but they are not good enough.
    While Ill note, that usually (9/10) I will eat all the animal, and even sell on fur and other materials if im able, that I don't (sometimes it's just not practical)
    I justify it because I firmly believe Morality is subjective and as thus different standards apply between Animals and Humans (we already see as much in our daily lives).
    Also yea, it's damned fun



    Never.
    May I ask your reasons



    Worse than using a gun.
    May I ask why you think this, feel free to pull up reports or studys, or apply practical anecdotal experiance of both Rifle and Bow hunting.



    No but I'm sure you'll get support from the Crossbow Cannibal.
    He's in prison, plus he was a bit of a tool, I doubt his support would count for much.

    All in all hunting is a horrible and outdated "tradition". The only time I can really understand it, is when it's done by tribal people who have no other means to feed their family and even then they tend to have a lot of respect for the wild and animals and in most cases they utilize ALL of the animal.
    Oh I utilize the animal, why arent you fine with me?


    I don't know... Maybe you operate under the false pretense that if something has four legs as opposed to two it can't possibly feel pain, experience emotion/fear, have children etc.
    Of course they can do this.
    Why should this then mean that I cant hunt them?

    One of the worst justifications for hunting is to "control a population" well you know, you don't need to set out with 20 horses and 50 dogs to do that. Hunters know it's a savage blood "sport" and that's why they like it.
    Actually it's quite often a very good reason to, I have a list of about four or five farmers who regularly ask me if id like to come down and take a few shots at some Rabbits that have been nibbling again.
    In some areas of Canada, Deer population are so massively out of control that they were deemed responsible for a shocking 18% rise in road accidents in 2009 and that they were outstripping there relative food areas and being forced to move nearer to residential areas, putting once more, more lives in danger.
    The government "payed" fourty hunters to come in and take at least four each.

    If you can find it in your heart to set a pack of dogs upon, or shoot wonderful creatures like these then there's no hope for you and probably your offspring.
    Im forced to agree on the dog bit, I find it's rather cruel and unusual, not to mention poor sport.
    Why would there be no hope?
    Are you implying that we who shoot, are morally void and incapable of act's of kindness?
    I can bring examples to the contrary if this is the position your holding?



    Bawwww, there adorable!

    This is not to mention some of the greatest creatures to ever grace this planet and honor us with their very presence are being hunted to extinction. What a tragedy... An absolute ****ing tragedy it would be for my children and their children to grow up in a world without the likes of:
    I agree completely, it would be a tragedy.

    Although illegal whaling still nets around 1000 of these wonders per year
    Horrific


    you'd have to be a **** to go out and actively hunt such creatures never giving them a chance to recover.
    Heres where your wrong though, population control is very tightly regulated, and animals in hunting Zones are given more than enough time and even "food" to recoup there losses, there hasnt been a Major population incident for close to twenty years in America, since the Hunting Reforms act in 89.

    I mean really... Trying to get in your head. Do
    you feel like a man sneaking up on an animal and killing it with an advanced weapon (guns or modern bows)? The animal never really stands a chance. In fact you're a coward. Strong opinion but it's something that I feel strongly about.
    Wrong again, the two times I have feared for my life where when I had a bullets smashing a feet away from me in Afghanistan.
    And when I had a 330 pound Oryx charging me at full pelt.
    While (obviously) animal casualties far outstretch human, when hunting some of the more dangerous stalk, you would be suprised just how dangerous it can be and how many Hunters are seriously injured/killed on a yearly basis.
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    (Original post by Riderz)
    Because your killing for no other reason than your own gratification at the expense of another animals life. IMO that is wrong and immoral. Should you need to hunt for food, or hunt to keep populations under control, or hunt for any other rationally justifiable reason then go for it, but your taking an animals life for your own pleasure and nothing else. Im not suggesting that animals have the same rights as we do, but there is no reason why your enjoyment should be more important than their existence. Billions of people have fun without killing anything, so why do you feel the need to kill something to have fun? Do you get a kick from the feeling of power over the animal? Your bigger and better because you have a more intelligent brain?
    Actually yes, I do get a kick, not so much from feeling bigger and better but from "winning" from the thrill of the stalk, often the danger involved to my own personal safety in some cases.
    However I always do hunt in high Population zones, we make it a point to not go anyway where there are even "concerns or rumours" of population drops.


    Aside from that I doubt you get a clean kill very often - you cant cause enough damage to the vital organs with a bow and arrow to kill swiftly like you would with a rifle round. How many arrows does it normally take you to down something like a deer?
    Out of Nine deer and five Doe kills, six have been completely clean , release, hit, dead Kills, each of the other ones I have managed to catch up with and Coup de gras, in under two minutes, usually under one.

    A rifle hunter usually allready starts out at four to even eight! times the distance I start at when taking the shot, the time it takes him to get there is excessive because A)He has further distance to travel B)he's usually at a higher altatude with a lot of foilage and difficult terain in the way, which hinders massively

    A rifle hunter will not get an absolutely clean kill much more often than an Archer does.
    Modern Compound bows and even high end Recurve(I shoot both) have a punch strong enough to easily match the destructive power of a bullet.
    More than once ive through and throuhd animals as tough as Boars, on a head shot, that's instant, on a torso shot ,that rips straight through turning arteries and organs to mush, death is very quick, if not instantaneously from shock.
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    You're an idiot. That is all
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    Eating meat isn't morally justifiable.
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    (Original post by aJohnsonsun)
    You're an idiot. That is all
    Well that was a big meany-head thing to say.


    (Original post by 66CC99)
    Eating meat isn't morally justifiable.
    Oh zing.
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    Well that was a big meany-head thing to say.



    Oh zing.
    Give me one good reason why you should eat meat and i'll eat a beefburger right now.

    I'll warn you in advance, the following are not good reasons:

    It tastes good
    It's essential for good health
    Morality is subjective
    It's traditional

    All of these are easily refuted so I suggest you think incredibly hard before you come up with a reason.
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    I don't see the problem with hunting/shooting things like grey squirrels, or rabbits (since there are loads of them).

    However, hunting things like endangered animals I don't think is ever justifiable, and I don't think it's justifiable to eat things that are at the top of the food chain either, because killing them would just make the number of animals that they eat increase by too much.
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    (Original post by 66CC99)
    Give me one good reason why you should eat meat and i'll eat a beefburger right now.

    I'll warn you in advance, the following are not good reasons:

    It tastes good
    It's essential for good health
    Morality is subjective
    It's traditional

    All of these are easily refuted so I suggest you think incredibly hard before you come up with a reason.
    Actually three of those are perfectly acceptable reasons.
    I feel your limiting my choice of responses because some of them are to vague for you to properly defend, however im not going to sidetrack this into a Meat V Vegi argument, going to keep it on hunting.
    It's tastes absolutely immense.
    (is this the bit where you come and say something like "Well I like the taste of human meat, maybe we should make Cannabalism morally acceptable?)
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    Well that was a big meany-head thing to say.
    You've probably made this topic to start trouble, you most probably don't give a crap about anyone's views on hunting.

    And aswell as that, you're trying to justify hunting for fun, which I think is idiotic.
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    Actually three of those are perfectly acceptable reasons.
    I feel your limiting my choice of responses because some of them are to vague for you to properly defend, however im not going to sidetrack this into a Meat V Vegi argument, going to keep it on hunting.
    It's tastes absolutely immense.
    Doing something because it feels good would provide validation for rape, paedophilia and animal sex. However it isn't acceptable as it is harmful to another being.
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    (Original post by aJohnsonsun)
    You've probably made this topic to start trouble, you most probably don't give a crap about anyone's views on hunting.

    And aswell as that, you're trying to justify hunting for fun, which I think is idiotic.
    Firstly no, I like honest discourse, I don't think I could start trouble over this.
    I do give a damn about others opinions, I change mine more often than not(I was against Hunting when I was younger for example) also my GF absolutely despises hunting so I always make sure not to talk about it or laud about it around her, I respect that.

    While I don't hunt purely for fun(though It is a massive-massive part of it) I don't see why it is Idiotic, which is why were having this exchange of views.
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    (Original post by 66CC99)
    Doing something because it feels good would provide validation for rape, paedophilia and animal sex. However it isn't acceptable as it is harmful to another being.
    Not getting dragged into this, for the ninth time this year.
    Though on record, I don't really care much for harming any other being other than a Human or one that I own, so I would be against rape and pedophillia and such forth because it harms Humans.

    But if it harms Animals? I couldent care less.
    Besides we all know, that Agriculture is responsible for more animal deaths per year than the Meat Industry is, and hat if we did all become Vegitearian that number would increase darastically and make the number of Animals killed via the meat industry look pale in comparison.
 
 
 
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