Oxford 2011 Freshers Chat Thread

Fair enough. Actually (more for my amusement than anything else), comparing Genesis 1:1-5 and adding the words I think I could guess without knowing the language, Latin does seem to come out on top by a margin:

German
1Am Anfang schuf Gott (God) Himmel und (and) Erde (Earth). 2Und die Erde war wüst und leer, und es war finster auf der Tiefe; und der Geist (ghost) Gottes schwebte auf dem Wasser (water). 3Und Gott sprach: Es werde Licht (light)! und es ward Licht. 4Und Gott sah, daß das Licht gut (good) war. Da schied Gott das Licht von der Finsternis 5und nannte das Licht Tag (day) und die Finsternis Nacht (night). Da ward aus Abend und Morgen (morning) der erste Tag.

Latin
1in principio creavit (created) Deus (God) caelum et terram (earth) 2terra autem erat inanis et vacua (empty) et tenebrae super (over) faciem abyssi et spiritus (spirit) Dei ferebatur super aquas (water) 3dixitque Deus fiat lux (light) et facta est lux 4et vidit Deus lucem quod esset bona (good) et divisit (divided) lucem ac tenebras 5appellavitque (called) lucem diem (day) et tenebras noctem (night) factumque est vespere (evening) et mane dies unus (one)

I think Latin translations are easier for me, even though I've never studied it in my life, because as you read it it sounds so awesome - like a magic spell

I think Latin translations are easier for me, even though I've never studied it in my life, because as you read it it sounds so awesome - like a magic spell

Or as the old joke goes, Quidquid latine dictum sit altum sonatur

Or as the old joke goes, Quidquid latine dictum sit altum sonatur

Well, depends on how you pronounce it. At school the pronounciation we were taught was basically Italian but with 'v' sounding like the English 'w'. Church Latin sounds quite different. I get a kick out of being able to read both, though.

In a bookshop here in Berlin the other week I found them selling Descartes' Meditations in side-by-side Latin and German, which was pretty awesome. Also a book of Pompeian graffiti.

Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo, indeed.

Well, depends on how you pronounce it. At school the pronounciation we were taught was basically Italian but with 'v' sounding like the English 'w'. Church Latin sounds quite different. I get a kick out of being able to read both, though.

In a bookshop here in Berlin the other week I found them selling Descartes' Meditations in side-by-side Latin and German, which was pretty awesome. Also a book of Pompeian graffiti.


Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo, indeed.

Waitwaitwait... Let me see... The way latin is said is higher than it sounds? Or something like that?

What are you going to do when zoedotdot reminds us that we have to provide translations for anything not in English?

"Whatever you say in Latin sounds like it's deep". But good try.

Ah. "Altus" meaning deep, not high (I was going for 'altitude'). Now you see why I get cross when something turns up in Latin untranslated. Good job I know a Classics student or two

It can mean both, actually, along with the more metaphorical 'profound' definition. Although to be honest before I double-checked it I had put 'old', so don't trust me.

Most of the words you say you'd know without knowing any Latin aren't really the same as the English ones, they just have more complex English derivatives; so if somebody had a smaller/more basic vocabulary they'd surely find it easier to read the German. e. g. the link between 'evening' and 'vespere' isn't very obvious ...

ooh er

What a lovely poem

Cyclic construction, commentary on the position of the poet in Roman society, a glimpse into how competing poets interacted personally and professionally, allusions to Catullus' other works, use of colloquial register in an artistic structure, contemplations on the nature of masculinity, what's not to like?

It's always fun when you get an edition that glosses the dirty words into more Latin rather than English, too. I recall reading that "irrumabo = mentulam in os inserere".

Cyclic construction, commentary on the position of the poet in Roman society, a glimpse into how competing poets interacted personally and professionally, allusions to Catullus' other works, use of colloquial register in an artistic structure, contemplations on the nature of masculinity, what's not to like?

I often look at French and think how easy it is for an English speaker to understand [not my reading list though ...] forgetting that I've been studying it for >7 years. That said, my dad hasn't done French since O-Level 46 years ago and reads it very well (his pronunciation is awful though ).

I miss Latin A-level ... sex seemd to come up a lot. It did in English Literature GCSE as well, but that was just our teacher (who is one of the chief examiners for one of the A-level boards, so there must be something in it!).

(I do actually like Latin for the language though, seriously )

Wow!

And I thought you were just trying to chat me up. I mean, I was flattered and all, but I'm not that way inclined.

I'm hoping to do Russian; bought a book on Wednesday and I'm going to make a proper start tonight. It doesn't seem too bad...

What subject are you doing?

German is a horrid-sounding language, you could be calling someone beautiful and it sounds like you're threatening to torture them...

I should probably have clarified: one of the versions of the French Revolution course is closed to me, the one in which you work from primary sources, not the time period as a whole. There will probably be plenty of other options where you deal with translations, it's just they're by nature going to be slightly flawed compared to the originals. And that's only because I haven't done French since year 9 and detested it even then. With a GCSE in it you'd probably get by fine. You'll be busy, yes, but they design these courses with us in mind so I'm sure you'd be able to fit it in.

If you're another historian I'm happy to answer your questions too

My reasons for wanting to learn aren't even any good - I'd like to read some of the books (19th/20th Century) in their original! Same with German... and that might be more 'useful'? Talk about tenuous

How could that even be considered to be a bad reason?

I'd like to learn Russian, but mostly because it sounds cool and I can pretend to be a spy. I'm sure the literature is also fantastic, but only being about half-way through Crime and Punishment I can't really comment.

Well I wasn't going to admit to that but same
Love C&P - I wanted to tackle the Brothers Karamozav over Summer, but it's not happening. I know one of my college's tutors loves Dostoyevsky (and I think my other interview looked at us with disgust)!

What book are you using?
I've found Oxford Take Off in Russian for a quarter of the price on another site, and it's in my library. The New Penguin Russian Course is the cheapest of this version but it looks good, but it's not available in my library. (Sorry for plaguing you with questions! Out of interest, why did you choose to learn Russian?)
My reasons for wanting to learn aren't even any good - I'd like to read some of the books (19th/20th Century) in their original! Same with German... and that might be more 'useful'? Talk about tenuous

I'm (hopefully) doing History & English so maybe trying to learn a language will stretch me even thinner! Still I don't like the idea of remaining monolingual, but I never liked French.