Should i appeal against this fine..?

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I never thought about this!! Was thinking of modifying the rear lights of my car but hey think i'll save the money at this rate :/ and to the OP: Unlucky about that mate, very unusual for you to be fined for that and it is a bit of a shame because those lights look really nice tbh!!

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 21

big-boss-91

Original post by wilsea05

was parked outside my friends house last night and found a fixed penalty notice.
offence code N165 - shining other than a red light to rear (white reflection)

the fine is £30, which isn't that much but is an amount i'd rather not pay.
Just wondering whether i should appeal because i've seen loads of cars with no red reflection from the rear lights e.g. corsa Cs (i have a corsa B) and also, all these coppers claim that 'ignorance is no excuse' but honestly, how the **** are you supposed to know when they don't exactly make the law clear. ive just been looking on the internet now for a list of laws for cars, or even laws in general, but there isn't one.

Check the Highway code and pay the damn fine

Reply 22

InconspicuousGuy

Original post by wilsea05

all my lights were off. there are red bulbs so that the brake lights and rear lights shine red, but i dont have any rear red reflectors, no. i had no idea they were compulsory, and it's not made very clear at all. i ctrl+f'd the link you posted and didn't find the word 'red' mentioned at all?

why did you ctrl+f it, it's hardly a like you had to scroll down mountains of text to find it, it's there:

"(2) No vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which is capable of showing any light to the rear, other than a red light, except–"

it then gives a huge list of exemptions (bicycles, reg plate lights etc), however none of these exemptions apply to you.

just pay the fine and put the rear reflectors in that were sold with the lights

Reply 23

Advisor

Original post by wilsea05

all my lights were off. there are red bulbs so that the brake lights and rear lights shine red, but i dont have any rear red reflectors, no.

Ok, so they can't prosecute you for the condition of your lights, but they're throwing the book at you for having no red rear reflectors. That's why the kit came with them. You're meant to use them.

i ctrl+f'd the link you posted and didn't find the word 'red' mentioned at all?

It's near the bottom, paragraph 7.

If you look at 99% of all other cars, they have red rear reflectors. Even if you don't think the law is made clear enough for you, surely those 99% of cars have them for a reason. Even if the police didn't make you aware of the law, the MOT tester would have in due course; it would fail an MOT. You shouldn't change a car from its factory spec unless you fully understand various legal requirements that apply to functional items.

Given what you've admitted, my advice to you now is to pay the £30 fixed penalty soon before it increases further, and fit those two red rear reflectors before using your car on a road. The link I posted earlier contains exact info on how and where they should legally be fitted.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 24

gbduo

Ah modern societies "blame everyone else but not yourself" culture is alive and well.

You ****ed up, now pay up. Tis simple. My number plates are not very er...legal but you just hope you don't get caught.

Reply 25

wilsea05

Original post by big-boss-91

Check the Highway code and pay the damn fine

It's not in the highway code you idiot. Not in the books or CDs they sell to you anyway.

Original post by Advisor

Ok, so they can't prosecute you for the condition of your lights, but they're throwing the book at you for having no red rear reflectors. That's why the kit came with them. You're meant to use them.

It's near the bottom, paragraph 7.

If you look at 99% of all other cars, they have red rear reflectors. Even if you don't think the law is made clear enough for you, surely those 99% of cars have them for a reason. Even if the police didn't make you aware of the law, the MOT tester would have in due course; it would fail an MOT. You shouldn't change a car from its factory spec unless you fully understand various legal requirements that apply to functional items.

Given what you've admitted, my advice to you now is to pay the £30 fixed penalty soon before it increases further, and fit those two red rear reflectors before using your car on a road. The link I posted earlier contains exact info on how and where they should legally be fitted.

if i fit 2 of these http://www.toolsandleisure.co.uk/reflectors-77-c.asp?gclid=CJrjj83MlqYCFUYe4QodQz5gaA will i be safe from further fines?

Reply 26

slammed_gti

I do feel sympathy for you, but you must understand, the law is the law, if you break it, you must receive the punishment, and the police cannot let you off because you claim to be ignorant of the law, otherwise everyone would get away with things! pay it and chalk it up to experience. it might be a good idea to thoroughly research or even ask the police in advance of buying any mods like this.

Reply 27

Advisor

Original post by wilsea05

It's not in the highway code you idiot. Not in the books or CDs they sell to you anyway.

if i fit 2 of these http://www.toolsandleisure.co.uk/reflectors-77-c.asp?gclid=CJrjj83MlqYCFUYe4QodQz5gaA will i be safe from further fines?

If it complies with the following:

1. Number: Two
2. Position-
[INDENT]a) Longitudinal: at or near the rear
b) Lateral:
[INDENT]i) Maximum distance from the side of the vehicle: 400mm
ii) Minimum separation distance between a pair of rear reflectors: 600mm. If the overall width of the vehicle is less than 1300mm, 400mm or if less than 800mm, 300mm.[/INDENT]
c) Vertical:
[INDENT]i) Maximum height above the ground: 900mm or, if the structure of the vehicle makes this impracticable, 1200mm.
ii) Minimum height above the ground: 350mm[/INDENT][/INDENT]
3. Angles of visibility-
[INDENT]a) Horizontal: 30° inwards and outwards
b) Vertical: 15° above and 5° below the horizontal (15° below if the highest part of the reflecting area is more than 750mm above the ground)[/INDENT]
4. Alignment: To the rear
5. Markings: An approval mark incorporating "I" or "IA"
6. Size of reflecting area: No requirement
7. Colour: Red
8. Other requirements-
[INDENT]a) Where two rear reflectors are required to be fitted they shall form a pair.
b) No vehicle, other than a trailer or a broken-down motor vehicle being towed, may be fitted with triangular-shaped rear reflectors.
c) A rear reflector shall not be fitted on a boot lid or other movable part of the vehicle.[/INDENT]

then, yes. This assumes, of course, that your vehicle is a standard 4 wheel motor car first used on or after 1st April 1991. In case you didn't read to the end of that list, don't buy the triangles! Circles or rectangles are fine.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 28

wilsea05

Original post by Advisor

The regulations are public information and are sold to you in print form here: http://www.tsoshop.co.uk/bookstore.asp?FO=1159966&Action=Book&ProductID=9780110977966&From=SearchResults

Of course, the information is also available for free online as posted above in this thread.

If it complies with the following:
then, yes. This assumes, of course, that your vehicle is a standard 4 wheel motor car first used on or after 1st April 1991. In case you didn't read to the end of that list, don't buy the triangles! Circles or rectangles are fine.

i was considering simply placing 2 reflectors in the rear window at the bottom corners, however they'd be above the 900mm limit, but under the 1200mm limit... so what makes a car 'impractical' for having them below 900mm? and would they give me another fine for this?

Reply 29

Advisor

Original post by wilsea05

The term "impracticable" does not refer only to a typical family car; it applies to any vehicle under the scope of the regulations, which include odd shapes like road rollers, bin lorries, diggers, cranes, military tanks and other unusual contraptions. Your standard Vauxhall Corsa will not qualify as "impracticable" for this purpose. Look at any other corsa to see where the reflectors are normally fitted.

Placement in a window will not do (remember the requirements for angles of visibility - the reflection and refraction from windscreen glass is likely to hinder this). You should attach them to the exterior bodywork of the car, such as on a light cluster, under a rear lamp, on a bumper, wherever. As a rough rule of thumb, they should be broadly at eye level to a person sitting in a following low profile car e.g. a mini or sports coupe.