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Illegal downloading and file sharing IS theft, why don't you admit it? Watch

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    Why is it that music fans who illegally download and file share music always come up with reasons to try to justify their theft of artists' music?

    Why do so called music fans kill the very thing they love? By downloading music without paying, you're killing what you claim to be so passionate about. That's hypocritical if you ask me.

    Here's the thoughts of a few other musicians on this subject:-

    Singer Doogie White told RockAAA: “We’re in danger of never hearing the next Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Iron Maiden, AC/DC or Metallica. New bands struggle to get advances because record companies won’t take the risk.

    “All we’ll be left with is the X-Factor because so-called fans stole the very thing that gives the scene life – the music.

    “You get the trotted out lines: ‘If you made a decent album…’ ‘I can’t afford all the albums I want…’ ‘You guys have made enough money…’ It’s self-justification for theft: they steal music because they can.

    “Then they say, ‘But I always buy a t-shirt.’ Yeah, you do – because the merch guy would crack your head if you stole one.”

    Case study: Jamie Mallender

    I’m an independent artist based out of my website, JamieMallender.co.uk. I do everything from the writing, recording, playing all the instruments and singing to the releasing and publicity, all by myself.

    It’s hard work and I have absolutely no funding behind me at all. I know who buys my material and who doesn’t because I receive an e-mail confirming every individual download. But then I receive e-mails from people who claim to love my music. They’re full of compliments – but I know they didn’t buy it legally.

    Some are blatant about it, as though it doesn’t matter, while others are sly. Take my latest track, Slip Away. It’s 79p! How much is 79p to you, for God’s sake? If you like an artist, pay for the tracks you want. Support us or we’ll disapear. If music is so important to you, like most people claim it is, put your money where you mouth is – or I will not be able to afford to create it any more.

    Some people remain under the illusion that all artists are wealthy and so one more illegal download won’t matter. It’s not the case. It’s not the 80s any more. Many of us are scratching around to make enough money to feed our families.

    You wouldn’t expect a plumber to come and fix your bog for free, so why should my music be stolen and no one do anything about it? It’s theft.


    Source: http://www.rockaaa.com/news/8-millio...ers-in-uk-1571

    C'mon people....you wouldn't kill off footballers' livelihoods if you were a football fan by not paying to get into a football match or by stealing a football shirt. But people who claim to love music have no problems robbing the artists of part of their income by not paying for their music. The hypocrisy of so called 'music fans' is just unbelievable. You are killing it for the current generation of musicians, who are struggling like hell to make a living from their music.
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    Media that can be pirated goes by a dfferent set of rules.

    It's not really theft, more copyright infringement. I mean, if I download something, I don't steal a product, I am given a copy of a product, so not theft. However, this copy is illegal and results in a loss of earnings, so is theft in a sense.


    But it's really a moot point. Piracy happens, and it doesn't harm the industry nearly as much as you think. We've nver had more new bands on the scene than we do today. The only people piracy hurts are the labels, because they're the only ones that make any real money off of CD sales.

    Artists make a pittance from record sales, if you want to support an artist then you go to their show, or buy their merchandise.

    Plus there's the whole argument about marketing and publicising from illegal downloads. I.E, If I introduce 3 people to a band from an illegal download, and they buy it legally the band has 3 more sales than it would have had, had noone had the music in the first place.

    Ultimatley, digital media plays by a different set of rules, especially the music industry.
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    (Original post by Beadle's About)
    Why is it that music fans who illegally download and file share music always come up with reasons to try to justify their theft of artists' music?

    Why do so called music fans kill the very thing they love? By downloading music without paying, you're killing what you claim to be so passionate about. That's hypocritical if you ask me.
    You're not really "killing" it though are you? You're just not supporting it.

    Obviously paying for the download helps the artist more than not paying for it. But unpaid downloading doesn't have any actual detrimental effect on the artist either. It's not like stealing a bracelet from a jewellery shop, where the shopkeeper actually loses something.

    You could think of it like this. Consider the following two scenarios:
    1] I don't pay for the music, and don't listen to it.
    2] I don't pay for the music, but I download it and listen to it anyway.
    As far as the artist is concerned, the two scenarios are exactly the same, he receives no money either way. But as far as I'm concerned, scenario 2 is better than scenario 1, because I get to listen to the music. From a utilitarian point of view, scenario 2 is more moral than scenario 1. And I'm sure we'd all agree that there's nothing immoral about scenario 1.
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    I admit it, I still do it though.
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    The sad dying cry of an overbloated industry in decline. It's quite beautiful really.
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    Ever listened to a CD/played a game/watched a show that your friend bought, without purchasing a copy yourself? :sexface:
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    A key point of theft is that, for instance, if I steal a loaf of bread, nobody else can have that bread. If I download a song now, that hurts nobody. Anybody else can have the exact same song whenever they want it.
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    (Original post by Beadle's About)
    ] Many of us are scratching around to make enough money to feed our families.
    I hate it when musicians, especially at a hobbyist level, think they have a right to earn a living off making a few songs every now and then.

    Rather than adapt, it'd seem the monolithic music industry is doing everything it can to keep the status quo. They'd rather not adapt their business model to fit the technology because that'd quite likely cause a loss in revenue. Better solution? Whine about file sharing until they convince governments to pass laws to protect their archaic business model. Heck, the Internet should allow them to provide their product at lower prices while allowing for higher profit margins. An added bonus is that their customers don't even need to leave the room to spend their money.

    Anyway, I won't start a tirade about the music industry but keep this in mind; while you seem to blame the Internet for your ills, it's provided you with a platform that allows you to reach hundreds of millions of listeners from across the globe.

    You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    (Original post by Beadle's About)
    you would kill off footballers' livelihoods if you were a football fan
    Speaking of self-entitled professionals...

    Edit: That article was nonsense. "1.2 billion tracks stolen in 2010, compared with 370 legal purchases". Biased and blatently misinforming.
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    Because it's not theft...
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    i don't actually care
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Media that can be pirated goes by a dfferent set of rules.

    It's not really theft, more copyright infringement. I mean, if I download something, I don't steal a product, I am given a copy of a product, so not theft. However, this copy is illegal and results in a loss of earnings, so is theft in a sense.


    But it's really a moot point. Piracy happens, and it doesn't harm the industry nearly as much as you think. We've nver had more new bands on the scene than we do today. The only people piracy hurts are the labels, because they're the only ones that make any real money off of CD sales.

    Artists make a pittance from record sales, if you want to support an artist then you go to their show, or buy their merchandise.

    Plus there's the whole argument about marketing and publicising from illegal downloads. I.E, If I introduce 3 people to a band from an illegal download, and they buy it legally the band has 3 more sales than it would have had, had noone had the music in the first place.

    Ultimatley, digital media plays by a different set of rules, especially the music industry.
    Same usual reasons everyone comes up with to justify their theft. Did you even bother to read the original post?

    A question for you so called music fans out there.....do you actually care about new artists, or do you just care about getting music for free on your computer so you've got more money spare to spend down the pub?

    C'mon, I want to know. You can't call yourself a music lover yet blatantly take someone's music without paying. I'm not talking about millionaire rock stars from the 80s. I'm talking about struggling musicians who don't have any money and are entitled to be pay for their creative works.
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    I wouldn't have 90 % of the music I have now if I went out and bought the cds. I have gone to loads of shows off the back of music I have downloaded, however, and that money goes more directly to the artist. Plus the 'nothing physical is actually stolen' argument. I call bull.****
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    If they really love music and people love theirs too then they'll keep on truckin', for the love and not the money. As for newbies to the industry, I think if they're really that good then they'll become known, file sharing is just an excuse for not making it as big as they want to.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    The only people piracy hurts are the labels, because they're the only ones that make any real money off of CD sales.
    Firstly this assumes the artist isn't independent.

    Secondly, hurting the record labels cuts their margins; cutting their margins means they won't sign people who are not definitely going to do pretty well.

    I am always surprised when people complain about today's music - how it's all the same, how X Factor pumps out generic manufactured pop. Maybe you'd get more interesting music that didn't conform to the current trends if record labels had bigger margins to play with.
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    I agree largely. My exception is that I have come across the vast majority of my music tastes through youtube - the vast majority of which were uploaded illegally (I assume)
    However, if an artist is worthy of my money, then I WILL buy the album, on CD. If it impresses me enough then I'll get more albums by that artist.

    I'm not prepared to pay money for something I don't like.

    Therefore I think that artist should distribute one or two songs from their albums for free to anyone so people can get a taste of what the album is like and then decide whether or not they want to buy the rest. It wouldn't lead to a significant loss in revenue because of the free tracks and would encourage people to buy legally if they are made aware of WHY they are given the free songs.

    Or better still - pay what you like albums.
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    (Original post by Seanisonfire)
    The sad dying cry of an overbloated industry in decline. It's quite beautiful really.
    Epic fail. Did you even read the post properly? I'm talking about struggling new artists. Illegal downloading hurts new artists because it takes money away from them. If new artists can't make a living out of music, there will be no new artists. Then you music fans will only have yourselves to blame when all that's left is x factor and americian idol and karaoke crap like that.

    You want music, you MUST pay for it.
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    Meh, the music industry has been ripping people off for years and still is. Example:

    Matt Cardle's new single (~15 mins of AUDIO) costs £4
    Scott Pilgrim vs the World (~110 mins of VIDEO + extras incl music videos) costs £20
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    You're not really "killing" it though are you? You're just not supporting it.

    Obviously paying for the download helps the artist more than not paying for it. But unpaid downloading doesn't have any actual detrimental effect on the artist either. It's not like stealing a bracelet from a jewellery shop, where the shopkeeper actually loses something.

    You could think of it like this. Consider the following two scenarios:
    1] I don't pay for the music, and don't listen to it.
    2] I don't pay for the music, but I download it and listen to it anyway.
    As far as the artist is concerned, the two scenarios are exactly the same, he receives no money either way. But as far as I'm concerned, scenario 2 is better than scenario 1, because I get to listen to the music. From a utilitarian point of view, scenario 2 is more moral than scenario 1. And I'm sure we'd all agree that there's nothing immoral about scenario 1.
    Same old argument I'm afraid....trying to make excuses for not paying for something.

    By not paying for the music, the artist isn't getting his/her fair share of money into their bank account (or paypal account). If they can't make enough money out of their music, they will go out of business and won't be able to record or tour with any more music.

    So it does hurt the artist by not paying, and also hurts the future of music.
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    (Original post by Beadle's About)
    Same usual reasons everyone comes up with to justify their theft. Did you even bother to read the original post?

    A question for you so called music fans out there.....do you actually care about new artists, or do you just care about getting music for free on your computer so you've got more money spare to spend down the pub?

    C'mon, I want to know. You can't call yourself a music lover yet blatantly take someone's music without paying. I'm not talking about millionaire rock stars from the 80s. I'm talking about struggling musicians who don't have any money and are entitled to be pay for their creative works.
    Yes, I did read it :rolleyes:

    I do care about music, and yet I download, is there a conflict of interests there? I don't think so. You see, I also support artists. I buy merchandise, I tell my friends and I try to get to shows. But do I always buy their music? No. That's doesn't mean I don't care about the industry, it means I like to have things on my own terms. It's often a case of 'stealing' something worth £5 and later buying a £20 shirt. It's not immoral, and I don't think it's wrong. It is not theft in the traditional sense, plain and simple.


    (Original post by paddyman4)
    Firstly this assumes the artist isn't independent.

    Secondly, hurting the record labels cuts their margins; cutting their margins means they won't sign people who are not definitely going to do pretty well.

    I am always surprised when people complain about today's music - how it's all the same, how X Factor pumps out generic manufactured pop. Maybe you'd get more interesting music that didn't conform to the current trends if record labels had bigger margins to play with.
    Actually, if an Artist is indepedent I am far more likley to buy their music.

    I don't like record labels for the most part. Certainley not the major ones, and I wont support them. They screw over new artists and keep them under their thumb as money making machines. If anyone is truly hurting the industry it is the record labels. Just read the stories of damn near any band, the laels always screw them over. This is why I would rather 'steal' the music and buy something where a larger purportion of the money goes to the artists.

    In this day an age going independent isn't all that hard, and there are thousands of success stories.

    The downfall of the labels can only be a good thing, and this is why they so desperatley fight 'piracy', because it destroys their money mking machine, not because it hurts the music.
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    In the words of Rody Walker, lead singer of one of my favourite bands said 'I support illegal download 100% because it will kill the industry.'

    He goes on to say that artists will play more shows and a true fan shows support by going to the show and buying the merch. Buying a CD just helps the record label.

    So I feel guilty in no way.
 
 
 
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