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Would a Palestinian state just be another vile theocracy?

Restricted human rights, unelected theocratic leaders, the funding of terrorism, the execution of homosexuals and adulterers, etc.

Should the world create another Iran, Yemen, etc? Or will Palestine be different?
(edited 13 years ago)

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Since it is not a Western culture, then it's their own business.

Human rights is largely a Western philosophical belief.
Probably. Depends who got in power and how. Desperate peoples can elect crazy parties.
(edited 13 years ago)
Reply 3
Avatar for Jarlsberg
Jarlsberg
2
It's culturally relative to their land, and it's not really fair to impose a western influence upon them. That being said human rights guarentees equality to all humans so it's hard to draw a line. But unless you don't try you'll never know what would happen. Besides, Israel is an illegal country anyway.
Reply 4
Avatar for B-Man.
B-Man.
13
Depends on who gets in to power as extreme living conditions often lead to extreme choices in leadership. But that is a decision the Palestinian people will have to make not us.
Reply 5
Avatar for Kolya
Kolya
17
Original post by Bubbles*de*Milo
Desperate peoples can vote in crazy parties.
This. A thriving democracy develops in combination with an independent judiciary, strong property rights, an energetic free press, stable social institutions, a literate and educated population, and so on. Unfortunately few of those elements are present in Palestinian society so the outlook for a potential state is grim.

What I've said perhaps indicates that a one-state solution would be better as it offers Palestinians access to social institutions that they would otherwise have to try developing by themselves, although of course a single state comes with a whole different set of problems.
Original post by Jarlsberg
It's culturally relative to their land, and it's not really fair to impose a western influence upon them.


Every human has the right to live without fear of persecution. That's a universal right, not something which solely benefits Western citizens.

That being said human rights guarentees equality to all humans so it's hard to draw a line.


It's not hard to draw the line at all. Either you accept, and have a high regard for human rights, or alternatively, you pursue a far more tyrannical-esque approach to governance.

But unless you don't try you'll never know what would happen.


In English please.

Besides, Israel is an illegal country anyway.


No it isn't.
Yes. Let's install a Western allied dictator though.
Original post by Jarlsberg
It's culturally relative to their land, and it's not really fair to impose a western influence upon them.


So just create a state, and who cares if they execute adulterers, apostates and homosexuals - it's their culture, right?

Acts like that, in whatever culture they are being carried out in, are primitive and as wrong as the view that some cultures have held that you can cure a person by drilling holes into their skull to release demons and evil spirits.

The type of cultural relativism that you are spouting is dangerous, and a method of turning a blind eye to and legitimising the flagrant abuse of human rights.
(edited 13 years ago)
Yes, probably. Doesn't mean they don't have a right to self-determination.
Original post by Margaret Thatcher
So just create a state, and who cares if they execute adulterers, apostates and homosexuals - it's their culture, right?

Acts like that, in whatever culture they are being carried out in, are primitive and as wrong as the view that some cultures have held that you can cure a person by drilling holes into their skull to release demons and evil spirits.

The type of cultural relativism that you are spouting is dangerous, and a method of turning a blind eye to and legitimising the flagrant abuse of human rights.


Here, here!
Might do hence Israel should be satisfied with the leading party before offering a solution. And the international community with Israel.
Reply 12
Avatar for L i b
L i b
19
Original post by B-Man.
Depends on who gets in to power as extreme living conditions often lead to extreme choices in leadership. But that is a decision the Palestinian people will have to make not us.


*******s to that. I'm far more concerned about the human rights of individuals than about some backwards nationalistic clap-trap. If those who desire a Palestinian state want our support, they'd damn well better demonstrate that they are fit to govern that land in a proper fashion.

Original post by B-Man.
No one has expressed this view. People have, however, acknowledged the Palestinians have the right to self-determination and that the Palestinians, and only the Palestinians, can decide who they want to govern them.


The vague and imprecise notions of 'self determination' are trumped a thousand times over by very real concerns over human rights. Indeed, fundamental human rights - not to be hung for being a homosexual, not to be stoned to death for invented crimes and God knows what else - trump every other consideration.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Margaret Thatcher
Restricted human rights, unelected theocratic leaders, the funding of terrorism, the execution of homosexuals and adulterers, etc.

Should the world create another Iran, Yemen, etc? Or will Palestine be different?


Iran went through a period of democratic revoultion and seemed to be turning into a modern first world country.
And then churchill stuck his nose in and instigated a coup.
(And no this isnt a conspiracy theory)
Reply 14
Avatar for L i b
L i b
19
Original post by B-Man.
Who should decide what becomes of any potential Palestinian State?


At the moment, the international community in consultation with the administrations and peoples of Palestine and Israel. Whilst I'd support consensus on this point, I'd rather ruffle some feathers than leave a mess behind.

Ideally, it should've been Britain sorting this out when it ended the Mandate. We failed miserably.
Original post by B-Man.
Who should decide what becomes of any potential Palestinian State?


The international community. This conflict has gone on far too long far it to be resolved only for there to be another conflict/continuous violation of human rights.
Reply 16
Avatar for Axes
Axes
2
Original post by B-Man.
You inferred that, no one else. Talk about a strawmans.




No, its pretty obvious that the living conditions in the Palestinian territories, justly or not, are under Israel's responsibility and a result of its actions (though I perfectly understand them). Thus, not a straw-man.
Reply 17
Avatar for Axes
Axes
2
Original post by B-Man.
No one has expressed this view. People have, however, acknowledged the Palestinians have the right to self-determination and that the Palestinians, and only the Palestinians, can decide who they want to govern them.




Actually, people said that 'human rights' is a western thing thus can't be applied to the Palestinians. In other words, they are allowed to commit human rights abuses since their 'culture' is different. It is incredibly hypocritical since those same people cry foul every time someone 'else' violates (or allegedly violates) the Palestinian human rights. Furthermore, the whole concept of 'national self-determination' is a western concept, yet those same people claim it is the Palestinians natural right. If that is the case, then they are allso expected to uphold certain principles themselves once they are able to self-govern.
(edited 13 years ago)
Reply 18
Avatar for Jarlsberg
Jarlsberg
2
Original post by Margaret Thatcher
So just create a state, and who cares if they execute adulterers, apostates and homosexuals - it's their culture, right?

Acts like that, in whatever culture they are being carried out in, are primitive and as wrong as the view that some cultures have held that you can cure a person by drilling holes into their skull to release demons and evil spirits.

The type of cultural relativism that you are spouting is dangerous, and a method of turning a blind eye to and legitimising the flagrant abuse of human rights.


Just because we view it as horrible and barbaric doesn't automatically make it so. There isn't anything which defines what is right or wrong in the world by scientific fact, their is only opinion. And although I'm for equality and against execution for the likes of being homosexual, it is still their country, their laws and their culture.
Original post by rajandkwameali
Since it is not a Western culture, then it's their own business.

Human rights is largely a Western philosophical belief.


Thats if you live in world lasting 100 years.


The first deceleration of human rights came from the middle east, by a man called Cyrus the great.

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