The Atkins Diet Horizon program tonight Watch

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*dave*
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#21
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(Original post by hattori)
I thought you knew alot about the topic until you said this:




Im not any diet or any programme, I don't make any recommendations to people but I need to say one thing:

The atkins diet does let you eat fruit, it's not a meat diet it's low carb diet. Meaning fruit and vegetables are allowed! Even from what I've read of the book I know that fruits and vegetables are allowed. And more carbs can be introduced into the diet over time.

Thankyou

The reason I make a point of this is that every time there is some 'food expert' on TV or in the paper on to talk about the Atkin's diet they just talk rubbish. The reason why they get so upset about the diet is that

1. They think all you eat is meat, which is wrong...read the book.

2. They don't understand that Dr Atkins was trying to actually analyse and understand what most nutritionalists just accept. In doing so he found that some of the scientific thinking was flawed.

Now I'm not saying Atkins is right or wrong. BUT nobody is doing enough proper research into Dr Atkin research, the scientists are just saying "oh well, Dr Atkins disagrees, but we know we're right because the books say so" but who's to say the books were right in the first place. And if you read the book Dr Atkins make strong arguments about the food we eat and why society had become fatter.


btw, if you burn fat it stinks. When you're starving you're burning fat and your breath stinks. When you're on Atkins you're burning excess fat so your breath will smell but you aren't actually starving. You stop smelling when you loose the fat.

You CANNOT eat fruits! Fruits contain LOADS of carbohydrates in the form of sugar. I think youre allowed enough carbs in a banana each day. It doesnt let you fulfill your 5 portions of fruit/veg a day. This makes the diet dangerous.

If you had watched the programme about it last night, its nothing to do with the diet being low carb. You actually eat the same amount of calories on this diet than any other diet. You still lose weight due to a lower calorie intake. The reason why the diet works is because protein seems to suppress the appetite much more than carbs or fat. This means you eventually eat less, even though you feel satisfied.
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PQ
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(Original post by *dave*)
You CANNOT eat fruits! Fruits contain LOADS of carbohydrates in the form of sugar. I think youre allowed enough carbs in a banana each day. It doesnt let you fulfill your 5 portions of fruit/veg a day. This makes the diet dangerous.

If you had watched the programme about it last night, its nothing to do with the diet being low carb. You actually eat the same amount of calories on this diet than any other diet. You still lose weight due to a lower calorie intake. The reason why the diet works is because protein seems to suppress the appetite much more than carbs or fat. This means you eventually eat less, even though you feel satisfied.
Um - actually you cannot eat fruit during induction, during the induction period (2 weeks) you're only allowed 10g of carbs a day and these *must* come from vegetables (and not starchy veg like potatoes or sugary foods). (And yes reducing your fruit and veg intake isn't ideal but the book emphasises that it's for a short time and also insists that you take a good multivitamin/mineral suppliment during the weight loss periods)

After induction you increase your carb intake (and the diet emphasises getting these carbs from veg, fruit etc not starchy foods or sugary foods (so bananas are out for a few weeks but strawberries are allowed (encouraged) in week 4) every week by 5 or 10g until you stop losing weight - if you want to continue losing weight you keep your carb intake slightly below the level where you stop losing weight, if you're happy with your weightloss so far you can continue increasing your carb intake until you start gaining weight and then you maintain your weight loss by eating carbs at slightly below the level at which you would gain weight.

I've been on the Atkins diet since last August, by November I'd lost all the weight I wanted to lose (apart from a few areas where exercise will be the only thing to shift them) at that point (and now) I eat a banana for breakfast, a chicken burger (without a bun) with coleslaw and a chocolate bar (yes that's right chocolate) for lunch and a pretty normal evening meal (although I still avoid potato and pasta as I've found that these 2 foods are the main things that influence my weight - the chocolate doesn't). Even on this normal diet I'm still losing weight (albeit at a much less dramatic rate than initially.

I felt absolutely awful for the first few days on the atkins diet...until I spotted that the symptoms I was experienced were identical to those I'd had when I gave up caffiene - withdrawal symptoms. Ever since day 3 I've felt amazing, more energy, no sleepy afternoon feeling and I've become a much nicer person to be around. I believe I was addicted to stodge, and I still get snappy and nasty when I eat more stodge than is good for me...but now I know that it is the food type that is affecting my mood (as well as my weight) and I can control it completely. (incidentally I always shunned pasta and potatoes as a child but started eating them as I grew up because it was easier).

Thanks to the Atkins diet I've dropped 2 dress sizes (I don't know exactly how much weight because I think measuring weight is counterproductive so refuse to use scales), my energy levels have gone through the roof and I feel great. It's not right for everyone (read the descriptions of what indications show that it is right for your metabolism/body type) but for me it's made my life so much better I would never have believed it 12 months ago.

(PS south beach diet is very similar to the atkins diet except it's stricter on the amount of fat you're allowed to eat (personally I ate hardly any fat on the atkins as I found it made me feel ill), my aunt used the south beach diet before I tried the atkins and she is looking and feeling great too)
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*dave*
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#23
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
Um - actually you cannot eat fruit during induction, during the induction period (2 weeks) you're only allowed 10g of carbs a day and these *must* come from vegetables (and not starchy veg like potatoes or sugary foods). (And yes reducing your fruit and veg intake isn't ideal but the book emphasises that it's for a short time and also insists that you take a good multivitamin/mineral suppliment during the weight loss periods)

After induction you increase your carb intake (and the diet emphasises getting these carbs from veg, fruit etc not starchy foods or sugary foods (so bananas are out for a few weeks but strawberries are allowed (encouraged) in week 4) every week by 5 or 10g until you stop losing weight - if you want to continue losing weight you keep your carb intake slightly below the level where you stop losing weight, if you're happy with your weightloss so far you can continue increasing your carb intake until you start gaining weight and then you maintain your weight loss by eating carbs at slightly below the level at which you would gain weight.

I've been on the Atkins diet since last August, by November I'd lost all the weight I wanted to lose (apart from a few areas where exercise will be the only thing to shift them) at that point (and now) I eat a banana for breakfast, a chicken burger (without a bun) with coleslaw and a chocolate bar (yes that's right chocolate) for lunch and a pretty normal evening meal (although I still avoid potato and pasta as I've found that these 2 foods are the main things that influence my weight - the chocolate doesn't). Even on this normal diet I'm still losing weight (albeit at a much less dramatic rate than initially.

I felt absolutely awful for the first few days on the atkins diet...until I spotted that the symptoms I was experienced were identical to those I'd had when I gave up caffiene - withdrawal symptoms. Ever since day 3 I've felt amazing, more energy, no sleepy afternoon feeling and I've become a much nicer person to be around. I believe I was addicted to stodge, and I still get snappy and nasty when I eat more stodge than is good for me...but now I know that it is the food type that is affecting my mood (as well as my weight) and I can control it completely. (incidentally I always shunned pasta and potatoes as a child but started eating them as I grew up because it was easier).

Thanks to the Atkins diet I've dropped 2 dress sizes (I don't know exactly how much weight because I think measuring weight is counterproductive so refuse to use scales), my energy levels have gone through the roof and I feel great. It's not right for everyone (read the descriptions of what indications show that it is right for your metabolism/body type) but for me it's made my life so much better I would never have believed it 12 months ago.

(PS south beach diet is very similar to the atkins diet except it's stricter on the amount of fat you're allowed to eat (personally I ate hardly any fat on the atkins as I found it made me feel ill), my aunt used the south beach diet before I tried the atkins and she is looking and feeling great too)
A few vitamin pills isnt going to do anything near enough the fruits and veg what you need. The programme showed that being on atkins , alhough you can eat wotever you want, you actualy end up eating less calories because protein is a natural appetite suppressor. I dont think I could handle it - your breath would stink and Id feel sick just eating protein and fat all the time.
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pkonline
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#24
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The programme was good tv to watch but not very scientific nor conclusive. For instance, by doing one twin study for one day, they concluded that the diet did not significantly show high ketogenesis. Now even with my dumbness I would think a proper, more reliable and accurate method of study should be undertaken before any claim like that is made.
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PQ
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#25
(Original post by *dave*)
A few vitamin pills isnt going to do anything near enough the fruits and veg what you need. The programme showed that being on atkins , alhough you can eat wotever you want, you actualy end up eating less calories because protein is a natural appetite suppressor. I dont think I could handle it - your breath would stink and Id feel sick just eating protein and fat all the time.
But you don't eat just protein and fat all the time - you eat protein and fat for 2 weeks (and in my case almost entirely protein - as I said the fat made me feel ill...most days I had a sausage for breakfast, a burger and salad for lunch and a peice of fish for tea). It's true that you eat far less because you don't feel the need to eat so much - but what's wrong with that.

(as for the vitamin comment I'm sorry but most *good* multi vitamins provide 100% RDA of all essential vitamins and minerals - more than you're likely to get from the average diet (because lets face it not many people get their full 5 portions) - and the shift in emphasis from carbs + meat and veg to meat + veg is far more likely to ensure people eat the recommended amount of fruit and veg than being on a calorie controlled diet we're you're encouraged to fill up on stodge)

I'm not saying the diet is right for everyone - in fact even the atkins people don't claim that: http://atkins.com/Archive/2001/12/26-529283.html (and if people actually read the recommendations and followed the rules there wouldn't be half the bad press there is about it)...but the changes I've experienced have not been down to a reduction in calorie intake alone (I've been on low cal diets and I've been far thinner than I am now and I've never felt this good).
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cipapfatso
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#26
(Original post by hattori)
I thought you knew alot about the topic until you said this:




Im not any diet or any programme, I don't make any recommendations to people but I need to say one thing:

The atkins diet does let you eat fruit, it's not a meat diet it's low carb diet. Meaning fruit and vegetables are allowed! Even from what I've read of the book I know that fruits and vegetables are allowed. And more carbs can be introduced into the diet over time.

Thankyou

The reason I make a point of this is that every time there is some 'food expert' on TV or in the paper on to talk about the Atkin's diet they just talk rubbish. The reason why they get so upset about the diet is that

1. They think all you eat is meat, which is wrong...read the book.

2. They don't understand that Dr Atkins was trying to actually analyse and understand what most nutritionalists just accept. In doing so he found that some of the scientific thinking was flawed.

Now I'm not saying Atkins is right or wrong. BUT nobody is doing enough proper research into Dr Atkin research, the scientists are just saying "oh well, Dr Atkins disagrees, but we know we're right because the books say so" but who's to say the books were right in the first place. And if you read the book Dr Atkins make strong arguments about the food we eat and why society had become fatter.


btw, if you burn fat it stinks. When you're starving you're burning fat and your breath stinks. When you're on Atkins you're burning excess fat so your breath will smell but you aren't actually starving. You stop smelling when you loose the fat.
So you've read the book then? You realise a lot of his theories are based on pseudo science and some things he doesn't justify at all? Like prohibiting people from intaking the artificial sweetener aspartame?

Not all fruits are banned true. But you have to realise everything contains some quantity of carbohydrate. Even meat. If someone had an apple (about 15-17g carbs) thats over half their carbs done, nearly all for the induction phase. Believe me, i;ve read the book. The amount of carbs allowed is also subjective to the person. Fruits are predmoninantly barred unless you have those high in fibre like guavas because the "net carb" impact is carbs-fibre. However, try a banana or two and kiss ketosis goodbye.

The atkins diet is meant predominantly for a diet rich in fats and proteins. But simple research should tell you cutting out a macronutrient to such an extent is bad. That's why I also disagree with low fat diets.

As for you stop smelling when you lose the fat? So you mean that never happens? Because that smell is caused by ketones. Now then you need fats in your body for essential purposes like insulation, so you will always have bodyfat. It is physically impossible to not have fat. Smelly breath does not equal fat loss, it means your in a stage of ketosis. Lipolysis which is fat burning can be triggered by sufficient exercise. My breath doesn't seem to smell after a run, does yours?

Atkins gets too much praise for this diet. It wasn't even his theory. There are a whole host of ketogenic diets out there, which are more balanced as they allow "carb-up" days such as cyclic ketogenic diets.

Only some fruits and vegetables are allowed. I correct myself for saying no fruits. But to me its the same thing. You cant have sauces and falvourings like mustard and tomato ketchup on your high fat high protein meal as well as fruit. Its either one or the other. Fruits like strawberrys are allowed because they are comprised mainly of water.

A dietwhich predominantly advocates (which it does) abstaining from carbohydrates (such as fruit/breads/pastas starchy foods basically) is one to be weary off.
Instead atkins creates a new market for sugar-alcohol products which use glycerol instead of carbs and the brand is passed off as "low-carb"
Sugar-alcohols don't have the same effect on insulin as carbs do but if you have enough it. Sugar-alcohols are no substitute for carbohydrate.

By no means am I an expert or even close. But I know what I research and what makes logical sense. If logic doesn't point you guys to the same conclusion - that predominantly cutting out a macronutrient is bad - then we're obviously never going to agree on this.
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s.ahmad3
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look people. there are some simple equations relating to weight.

energy in > energy out = weight gain
energy in < energy out = weight loss
energy in = energy out = stable weight

so, you either eat less, or do more, or both. the atkin diet works because you actually eat less, believe it or not. Its got sod all to do with lack of carbs. you could quite happily replace it with a protein/carb diet lacking in fat and get the same dramatic weight loss. this is because the protein has an effect on appetite, making you eat less.

The atkins diet can be dangerous. The brain ONLY uses glucose, nothing else. People on the atkins diet actually often suffer from memory loss etc. Also, can you seriously live the rest of your life on such a diet, never tasting bread again?. As soon as you stop the diet, you can fall into the same trap of eating too much. The complete lack of grain also means no fibre so bowel cancer here we come.
Why dont people just try eating less. Yes you feel hungry, yes its hard. but over a period of a few months, you get used to it, and feel satisfied with eating less. this much is true.
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PQ
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#28
(Original post by s.ahmad3)
Also, can you seriously live the rest of your life on such a diet, never tasting bread again?
I eat bread regularly - admittedly not as much as before but at the same time I don't avoid bread religiously. I tend to get nicer bread in smaller amounts instead of bulking up on cheap nasty white bread. Just because bread is avoided in the first stages of the diet doesn't mean it is forbidden - nothing is forbidden, the diet encourages you to focus on getting carbs from healthier sources than starchy stodgy foods, grains aren't the only plants to provide fibre (fibre counts against your carb intake so eating high fibre fruit and veg is encouraged).

Like I said dismiss it all you want but 5 months in I'm looking and feeling so much better than I was I couldn't care less - people endanger themselves by not researching the diet and not following the rules and precautions (I know someone who stayed on induction for 4 weeks and caused herself rediculous harm - the book says 2 at the most 3 weeks on induction). It's not for everyone and some of the stuff is a little daft (the aspartame ban for instance was something I ignored completely as it seemed completely baseless) but that doesn't mean it hasn't changed the lives of a lot of people for the better.
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*dave*
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(Original post by Pencil Queen)
I eat bread regularly - admittedly not as much as before but at the same time I don't avoid bread religiously. I tend to get nicer bread in smaller amounts instead of bulking up on cheap nasty white bread. Just because bread is avoided in the first stages of the diet doesn't mean it is forbidden - nothing is forbidden, the diet encourages you to focus on getting carbs from healthier sources than starchy stodgy foods, grains aren't the only plants to provide fibre (fibre counts against your carb intake so eating high fibre fruit and veg is encouraged).

Like I said dismiss it all you want but 5 months in I'm looking and feeling so much better than I was I couldn't care less - people endanger themselves by not researching the diet and not following the rules and precautions (I know someone who stayed on induction for 4 weeks and caused herself rediculous harm - the book says 2 at the most 3 weeks on induction). It's not for everyone and some of the stuff is a little daft (the aspartame ban for instance was something I ignored completely as it seemed completely baseless) but that doesn't mean it hasn't changed the lives of a lot of people for the better.

Apparently all the Atkins theories on ketosis have nothing to do with weight loss. The ONLY reason why the diet works is because you consume less calories. And you consume less calories because protein supresses appetite.
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Geogger
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(Original post by *dave*)
Apparently all the Atkins theories on ketosis have nothing to do with weight loss. The ONLY reason why the diet works is because you consume less calories. And you consume less calories because protein supresses appetite.
Well I don't really mind which scientific (or pseudo-scientific) explanation is used.... because quite simply ...it works! I thoroughly agree with PencilQueen. I've been on this diet since September and have lost 2 stones comfortably and have dropped to a size I am happy with. I too have heaps of energy, I don't drop off to sleep on the sofa when I get home in the evening and my whole outlook has become more positive. As long as you read the book, drink lots of water and don't stay on Induction too long, most people will be fine. It kick-started my weight loss and now I'm happy with maintaining my weight. Too many carbohydrates (of the refined type) are definitely bad for me and I'm just more discriminating in the carbs I eat!
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s.ahmad3
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Originally Posted by Geogger
Too many carbohydrates (of the refined type) are definitely bad for me and I'm just more discriminating in the carbs I eat!
its not the lack of carbs thats making you lose the weight. its the high protein content suppressing your appetite so you eat less. There have been studies where groups of people were allowed to eat as much as they wanted but had secretly added protein to their diet. After a few months it was obvious it was the high protein intake reducing the apetite. The way the atkins diet works has nothing to do with lack of carbs. its everything to do with a high proportion of protein
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*dave*
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(Original post by s.ahmad3)
its not the lack of carbs thats making you lose the weight. its the high protein content suppressing your appetite so you eat less. There have been studies where groups of people were allowed to eat as much as they wanted but had secretly added protein to their diet. After a few months it was obvious it was the high protein intake reducing the apetite. The way the atkins diet works has nothing to do with lack of carbs. its everything to do with a high proportion of protein
I agree. All this ketosis [email protected] is just trying to 'science' it up.
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Geogger
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(Original post by s.ahmad3)
its not the lack of carbs thats making you lose the weight. its the high protein content suppressing your appetite so you eat less. There have been studies where groups of people were allowed to eat as much as they wanted but had secretly added protein to their diet. After a few months it was obvious it was the high protein intake reducing the apetite. The way the atkins diet works has nothing to do with lack of carbs. its everything to do with a high proportion of protein
I'm not actually disagreeing with you - I appreciate that its the protein which acts as the appetite suppressant.
What I have found personally is that too many refined carbs tend to make me want to eat even more carbs (ie I then start eating way too much) but also I have found that too much in the way of bread, potatoes and pasta makes me bloated. Each person will eventually find their own balance point, its just that the appetite suppressant mechanism gives you a space in which to find it. Each to his or her own, but it worked for me (and several others I know of).
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PQ
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(Original post by s.ahmad3)
its not the lack of carbs thats making you lose the weight. its the high protein content suppressing your appetite so you eat less.
Yup completely agree with that - however the reduction in carbs *does* help balance out your energy levels...and the reduction in certain types of carbs has made me a much happier person (regardless of weightloss).

These are benefits I wouldn't get with a traditional diet and I'm still amazed at how intensly I've felt them (sorry to go on about this but it's really been an incredibly positive part of my life - even if I hadn't lost weight the change in attitude and energy would be worth it)
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Geogger
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(Original post by Pencil Queen)
Yup completely agree with that - however the reduction in carbs *does* help balance out your energy levels...and the reduction in certain types of carbs has made me a much happier person (regardless of weightloss).

These are benefits I wouldn't get with a traditional diet and I'm still amazed at how intensly I've felt them (sorry to go on about this but it's really been an incredibly positive part of my life - even if I hadn't lost weight the change in attitude and energy would be worth it)
Absolutely - I couldn't agree more!
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