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jammyd
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#81
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#81
(Original post by kildare)
So a 10 year old child is guilty because he/she happened to be born in that part of the world?
Did you see something I said earlier? about responsibility or something.
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Mariam Safe
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#82
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#82
(Original post by viviki)
Your definition of discrimination might not be the same as another persons.
I meant it in a very univeraal sense: discrimination is defined as treating one person unfairly over another according to factors unrelated to their ability or potential, such as age, disability, sex, or national origin.

Maybe you are right?
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viviki
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#83
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#83
(Original post by jammyd)
Perhaps. Take it to mean people that can or could effect the situation.
Do you mean this post. So in which case you dont believe all Israeli citizens are guilty.
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kildare
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#84
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#84
(Original post by jammyd)
Did you see something I said earlier? about responsibility or something.
I did, my response it that it is unrealistic not to mention unfair, to expect 10 year olds (or people of any age for that matter) to take responsibilty for their governments actions.
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Mariam Safe
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#85
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#85
(Original post by kildare)
So a 10 year old child is guilty because he/she happened to be born in that part of the world?
No children can be guilty. Only adults can be gui;lty because they have the mental capcity to be able to distinguish between right and wrong. It would be wronf for an adult to live in Israel knowing full well that a child is a homeless refugee as a result of his being there.
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jammyd
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#86
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#86
Sharon may be on his way out I fear. Isn't he being investigated for corruption, just as Barak and Netanyahu were.
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Alaric
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#87
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#87
(Original post by vienna95)
unless youve been living in a cave, you should know palestinian suicide bombing is purposely levelled against Israeli civilians.
But not exclusively, so your generalisations aren't helpful.

(Original post by vienna95)
that difference being political and critical.
Yes, the Palestinian Freedom Fighters have some legitimacy under international law and Israel/Israeli government hasn't. However, politically the majority of the support is behind Israel.
Of course, these days, the french resistance would be regarded as 'terrorists'.

Alaric.
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aliel
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#88
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#88
(Original post by jammyd)
Sharon may be on his way out I fear. Isn't he being investigated for corruption, just as Barak and Netanyahu were.
lol
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kildare
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#89
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#89
(Original post by Mariam Safe)
No children can be guilty. Only adults can be gui;lty because they have the mental capcity to be able to distinguish between right and wrong. It would be wronf for an adult to live in Israel knowing full well that a child is a homeless refugee as a result of his being there.
The child is a refugee as a result of the actions of various governements at various points in history. It is not that particular person's fault. If he left his place in the country would not suddenly become occupied by a refugee, homeless or otherwise.
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aliel
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#90
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#90
(Original post by Alaric)
But not exclusively, so your generalisations aren't helpful.


Yes, the Palestinian Freedom Fighters have some legitimacy under international law and Israel/Israeli government hasn't. However, politically the majority of the support is behind Israel.
Of course, these days, the french resistance would be regarded as 'terrorists'.

Alaric.
Agreed.
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viviki
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#91
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#91
(Original post by Mariam Safe)
No children can be guilty. Only adults can be gui;lty because they have the mental capcity to be able to distinguish between right and wrong. It would be wronf for an adult to live in Israel knowing full well that a child is a homeless refugee as a result of his being there.
Right and wrong in whos perception?
What is deemed right and wrong in one society may not be the same as what is right and wrong here.

Are you saying that everyone is born with a sense of right and wrong which transcends the society in which we live?
In which case then surely the only reason a child of 10 is not guilty is because they dont have the independence at that age to leave that society. A 10 year old can be found guilty of murder in our law whats the difference?
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Vienna
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#92
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#92
(Original post by Alaric)
But not exclusively, so your generalisations aren't helpful.
who else is the suicide bomber targeting except for Israeli citizens?
its not a generalisation, im reiterating what the palestinian activists threaten everyday.

Yes, the Palestinian Freedom Fighters have some legitimacy under international law and Israel/Israeli government hasn't.
Hamas is outlawed as a terrorist group by the UN and the EU, so i dont know what you are referring to. Israeli has a right to protect its civilian population when attacked.

However, politically the majority of the support is behind Israel.
Of course, these days, the french resistance would be regarded as 'terrorists'.
Alaric.
because politically it is clear. were the french resistance targeting german civilians or german occupying forces?
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Mariam Safe
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#93
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#93
(Original post by kildare)
The child is a refugee as a result of the actions of various governements at various points in history. It is not that particular person's fault. If he left his place in the country would not suddenly become occupied by a refugee, homeless or otherwise.
I see what you are saying but if the adult i was refering to in my last post LIVES on either in a house in which a palistianian family used to live in or land which belonged to them. Continuing to do this and recognising it at the same time is wrong.

In practise, Israel is a "first world" country. So a person who wishes to leave Israel may emmigrate to the US or any other country because he or she most probably has the means to do so (obviosul this wouldn't apply to the poor) Back to your question, it is unlikely that a person living in Israel can be made "a refugee, homeless or otherwise"
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kildare
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#94
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(Original post by Mariam Safe)
I see what you are saying but if the adult i was refering to in my last post LIVES on either in a house in which a palistianian family used to live in or land which belonged to them. Continuing to do this and recognising it at the same time is wrong.

In practise, Israel is a "first world" country. So a person who wishes to leave Israel may emmigrate to the US or any other country because he or she most probably has the means to do so (obviosul this wouldn't apply to the poor) Back to your question, it is unlikely that a person living in Israel can be made "a refugee, homeless or otherwise"
I don't support the settlements policy but I still feel the onus to dismantle them should be on the governments, not on the individuals. Sure, in an ideal world it would be nice if people could make principled plans but I think it's unrealistic for people to leave their homes, their families and everything they know for some foregin land.
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mikesgt2
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(Original post by vienna95)
politicians who advocate suicide bombing against innocent people have to be questioned. i find it worrying that you dont see this.
Did you actually read what she said? She said:

"If I had to live in that situation - and I say that advisedly - I might just consider becoming one myself."

Now, I am sure that you would be perfectly happy if another state was illegally ocupying your lands, torturing your relatives and demolishing your homes. Do you think palistinians become suicide bombers for the sheer hell of it? She was not advocating suicide bombings, she was drawing attention to the root causes of terrorism. She was making the arguable point that Israel may be the cause of the very thing they are trying to stop. That is, Israel cannot demand the end of suicide bombings while at the same time occupying lands. It is an incoherent position.
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Mariam Safe
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#96
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#96
(Original post by viviki)
Right and wrong in whos perception?
What is deemed right and wrong in one society may not be the same as what is right and wrong here.

Are you saying that everyone is born with a sense of right and wrong which transcends the society in which we live?
I believe everyone has instintive human values independent on whatever enviroment we grew up in. (such as its wrong to murder)

(Original post by viviki)

In which case then surely the only reason a child of 10 is not guilty is because they dont have the independence at that age to leave that society. A 10 year old can be found guilty of murder in our law whats the difference?
Yes I agree.
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Vienna
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#97
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(Original post by mikesgt2)
Did you actually read what she said? She said:

"...I might just consider becoming one myself."
politicians who advocate suicide bombing against innocent people have to be questioned
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viviki
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#98
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#98
(Original post by vienna95)
politicians who advocate suicide bombing against innocent people have to be questioned
In the context of


If I had to live in that situation

We dont have to live in that situation and neither does she so the point is that it could happen. I dont know what i would be like if i was born palestinian she did not say that she advocated it or condoned it.
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viviki
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#99
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#99
(Original post by Mariam Safe)
I believe everyone has instintive human values independent on whatever enviroment we grew up in. (such as its wrong to murder)
I completely disagree I believe that the society we are born into influences our lives. I think that people born in different societies have completely different values as to the right to life.
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Mariam Safe
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#100
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#100
(Original post by kildare)
I don't support the settlements policy but I still feel the onus to dismantle them should be on the governments, not on the individuals. Sure, in an ideal world it would be nice if people could make principled plans but I think it's unrealistic for people to leave their homes, their families and everything they know for some foregin land.
Why is it unrealistic? I am a vegan (it conflicts a bit with my religon) but as a matter of principle I have chosen this way of life.

I know its a warped anology, but would it be right to use the data gathered from atrcious experiments carried out on Hitlers victims? Scientist made a principled judgement not to use such data.

People living in Israel should make a principled jusgement and act on it.
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