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Vienna
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#101
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#101
(Original post by viviki)
In the context of


If I had to live in that situation

We dont have to live in that situation and neither does she so the point is that it could happen. I dont know what i would be like if i was born palestinian she did not say that she advocated it or condoned it.
she said that she would consider being a suicide bomber if she was palestinian. that is advocating palestinian suicide bombing. its quite clear.
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viviki
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#102
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#102
(Original post by vienna95)
she said that she would consider being a suicide bomber if she was palestinian. that is advocating palestinian suicide bombing. its quite clear.
I dont think that it is clear. Considering becoming something doesnt mean that you would actually become that. It doesnt mean that you think it is acceptable.
She didnt categorically say- if I was a palestinian I would be a suicide bomber.
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PQ
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#103
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#103
I believe that most parents would give up their lives if they thought it would provide their children and grandchildren with hope and a better future...the misguided logic that leads to that decision in some cases is questionable (suicide bombers do nothing to further the peace movement), the motives behind it are universal.
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Vienna
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#104
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#104
(Original post by viviki)
I dont think that it is clear. Considering becoming something doesnt mean that you would actually become that. It doesnt mean that you think it is acceptable.
She didnt categorically say- if I was a palestinian I would be a suicide bomber.
im sorry, but 'i would consider' in political terms implies that you support their actions. even her own party recognises this,
"She was not speaking for Liberal Democrats - Liberal Democrats do not condone terrorism in any circumstances, whether by suicide bombers or anyone else."
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viviki
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#105
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#105
I think maybe her wording was illadvised, but her point in my opinion was that it is easy to condemn but could you guarantee that you would not consider suicide bombing were you a palestinian and I think that is a valid point. Her party has been forced to distance themselves from her comments because of the hype whipped up by the media about it and so that noone thinks that they as a party support suicide bombing but that does not mean that she agrees with suicide bombing. I know that you have the opinion that she was merely backtracking but on TV this morning she said she was against suicide bombing and I believed her.
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mikesgt2
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#106
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#106
(Original post by vienna95)
im sorry, but 'i would consider' in political terms implies that you support their actions. even her own party recognises this,
"She was not speaking for Liberal Democrats - Liberal Democrats do not condone terrorism in any circumstances, whether by suicide bombers or anyone else."
Is it not posiible to recognise the reasons behind somthing without advocating it?
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Vienna
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#107
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#107
(Original post by mikesgt2)
Is it not posiible to recognise the reasons behind somthing without advocating it?
yes, in which case she would have said, 'i understand and sympathise with the plight of the palestinian people but i cant advocate suicide bombing.' instead of saying i cannot support it, she says i would probably do the same. she may have meant the former, but unfortunately she chose her words very poorly.

and she has just been asked to step down as spokeswoman for children by Charles Kennedy.
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viviki
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#108
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#108
If you treated my interpretation of what she said as correct in that I think that she meant that it is easy to condemn but could you guarantee that you would not consider suicide bombing were you a palestinian. Do you agree or disagree with that? Do you think it is a valid statement out of interest.
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Vienna
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#109
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#109
(Original post by viviki)
If you treated my interpretation of what she said as correct in that I think that she meant that it is easy to condemn but could you guarantee that you would not consider suicide bombing were you a palestinian. Do you agree or disagree with that? Do you think it is a valid statement out of interest.
no, i believe it was far stronger than that. she clearly made her feelings plain, she wasnt sitting on the fence and never has.
you cant say you wouldnt, but i think a statement like that acheives very little.
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viviki
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#110
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#110
I think that it achieves quite a bit. For a start it is an attempt to understand the context in which these actions take place in reference to both israelis and palestinians. i think it is far too easy for people to sit at their computers and make huge generalisations about whether Israelis or indeed palestinians are evil without considering their culture or societies.
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Pegasus
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#111
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#111
Her comments were a little irresponsible but she clearly doesn't hate jews so I think it would be going a bit far to say she was anti-semetic. I think see just wanted to draw attention to the problems that people are facing in the occupied territories. Part of the solution to the problem is understanding it, and as she later said herself:

"I was just trying to say how, having seen the violence and the humiliation and the provocation that the Palestinian people live under every day and have done since their land was occupied by Israel"
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Vienna
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#112
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#112
(Original post by viviki)
I think that it achieves quite a bit. For a start it is an attempt to understand the context in which these actions take place in reference to both israelis and palestinians. i think it is far too easy for people to sit at their computers and make huge generalisations about whether Israelis or indeed palestinians are evil without considering their culture or societies.
quite.
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pkonline
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#113
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#113
Although killing is wrong under all circumstances IMO, I can understand why many Palestinians would feel so disillusioned and agrieved with life that they feel they only way to be heard is by blowing themselves, and others, up.

A definate cry for help when a mother feels pride that her sone has done such a thing.
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Howard
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#114
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#114
(Original post by pkonline)
Although killing is wrong under all circumstances IMO, I can understand why many Palestinians would feel so disillusioned and agrieved with life that they feel they only way to be heard is by blowing themselves, and others, up.

A definate cry for help when a mother feels pride that her sone has done such a thing.
No. When a mother feels pride that her son has blown himself and taken the lives of some innocent folks drinking coffee in Starbucks that's not a cry for help. That's mental illness.
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Vienna
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#115
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#115
(Original post by Howard)
No. When a mother feels pride that her son has blown himself and taken the lives of some innocent folks drinking coffee in Starbucks that's not a cry for help. That's mental illness.
at least in a civilised world it is.
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pkonline
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#116
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#116
(Original post by Howard)
No. When a mother feels pride that her son has blown himself and taken the lives of some innocent folks drinking coffee in Starbucks that's not a cry for help. That's mental illness.
Well its all about opinion. I agree that it it ain't normal, but I put it down to shear desperation rather than mental illness.
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pkonline
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#117
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#117
(Original post by vienna95)
at least in a civilised world it is.
In both I think. The love between a mum and her son is no different.
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Vienna
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#118
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#118
(Original post by pkonline)
In both I think. The love between a mum and her son is no different.
no, but the moral values of the mother are.
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viviki
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#119
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#119
(Original post by pkonline)
In both I think. The love between a mum and her son is no different.
But the love isnt tested in the same way in a civilised world.
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Mariam Safe
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#120
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#120
(Original post by viviki)
I completely disagree I believe that the society we are born into influences our lives. I think that people born in different societies have completely different values as to the right to life.
Very interesting issue you’ve raised and I think I can give a explanation.
I’ve only got a GSCE in Biology and its been 3 years, but have you heard of a concept called the “Reflex Arc”? If toddlers puts their hand into a fire the electrical signals, stimuli, which in normal circumstances go from the pain receptors in their skin to their brains and from their brains to the muscles in their arm, bypass their brains altogether and go directly to the muscles in their arms, so they quickly take it alway from the fire. They almost instinctivly "learn" that fire is hot, hot is bad.

A child therefore can identify what will "harm" him or her. Is it unreasonable to assume that he/she can idenify things that can harm others too? Although I have recently become vegan now, I was inspired to do so when I was very young- I saw a programme on animal testing and decided that I wouldn't like it done on me.
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