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To all those applying for law...

I seem to read a lot of misconceptions on this board. I've lurked here for quite a while after being referred by a friend who wanted some advice. Anyway, if you're wanting to become a lawyer at a major firm and earn big $$$ ( :smile:

), you need to:

1. Get 3 As or AT THE VERY LEAST, AAB. Very few of the big firms will even entertain you if you don't have these. Don't worry so much about GCSEs - I only did 5 due to illness. Some firms don't even require you to list them.

2. Go to a reputable university. I only had a choice between Durham and Newcastle. I had to stay local because I hadn't fully recuperated after being ill. I was offered a place at Van Mildert, Durham and didn't like it, so chose NCL instead. Very happy 3 years. Don't get hung up if you don't get into Oxbridge. Providing you've been to a highly-regarded uni (something that's research-based or York/ Durham) then you won't have any problems.

DO NOT choose anything that isn't redbrick unless it's Oxford Brookes or UWE! Even if you do choose one of those better, newer unis, there is a great deal of snobbery in the City. It is starting to disappear, albeit very slowly. Fact remains: new universities are not highly-regarded by most London firms. You can get a 1st, have 5 As at A-level and a whole raft of extra-curriculars but you're still likely to lose out.

3. You don't need to study law. I read finance (got a 2:1) and have been wooed by some of the rich American firms which are finance-focussed. Something like 50% of City lawyers are non-law and it in no way harms your chances if you've read any other academic subject. By "academic" I don't mean Media or Star Trek Studies etc. :P

4. Get very good grades throughout your studies. You won't get an interview if you don't average at least a 2:1 throughout your career at university.

5. Find out about the law and the major firms in your first year and apply for vacation schemes in your second year. Vac schemes are very useful when applying for TCs as they show an interest in the law.

6. Get some good stuff on your CV. I know people who got high degrees from great unis (including Ox) but haven't been able to secure an interview at a major firm because they lack the "commercial acumen" that firms are attracted to.

Follow those stages and enjoy your career in the law. I'm currently doing my CPE (law conversion course which lasts for 1 year) and will begin my LPC in September. My training contract starts in 2005 at a major American firm in London. 35k for first two years and 65k on qualification. :biggrin:

Bottom line: Get excellent A-Level grades, go to a highly-regarded uni, get good grades, apply to lots of firms, sit back and relax while you get free cash and a fat salary when you start your career.

Good luck. :smile:

PM me if you want to ask any Qs.

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Reply 1

iiikewldude

what do the law firms actually look at ur a level grades???

What kind of job will u be getting with an american firm? will you have to qualify as an english solicitor to work for them?

U sound like ur pretty sorted with ur jobs etc, i wouldn't mind being in ur situation in a few years time.

Reply 2

Vitriol

Yes, all major law firms will look at A-Level grades. So make sure they're good. :smile:

Quite a few American firms take TC applications now. They do a lot of banking work and London is the European centre, so most of the firms have a major outpost there. You qualify as an English solicitor and can move to British firms on completion of your training contract (i.e. after 2 years).

Reply 3

Bhaal85

Vitriol

Yes, all major law firms will look at A-Level grades. So make sure they're good. :smile:

Is Sheffield University and Leicester University regarded well with big city law firms?

Reply 4

Vitriol

Yes, both are well regarded. One guy at my firm is from Sheffield.

Reply 5

llama boy

Vitriol

a lot of good stuff.

ok, i appreciate what you're saying...but surely the competition for jobs such as your's must be immense?

it can't be like everyone with AAA, a 2.1 and some good extra curriculars gets to "sit back and relax while you get free cash and a fat salary when you start your career", surely?

Reply 6

viviki

You can get a training contract with less than AAB provided that you have a good degree result and other good skills. I know quite a few people doing training contracts with less than AAB. Mind you, you probably wouldnt get into such a prestigious firm or on such a high salary but the opportunities are there. I do agree with the university thing it is best to go to a red brick and not a new uni, some firms although they dont ask for all your GCSEs do want to know that you got a B at English and Maths.

Reply 7

iiikewldude

i never thought that my school grades would make any differnce to applying for a job - i thought they'd only be good for getting into uni.

Reply 8

viviki

iiikewldude

i never thought that my school grades would make any differnce to applying for a job - i thought they'd only be good for getting into uni.

They make a huge difference all the big firms that offer grad jobs normally want between 22-28 points minimum (depending on where you apply) sorry I dont know the old points system, and good grades at GCSE maths and English.

Reply 9

Vitriol

llama boy

You're right of course, but you're more than likely to get interviews.

Example: Clifford Chance - Magic Circle firm, uber prestigious, gets about 4,000 apps per year for 120 spaces. They interview about 500. That's (rougly) an 8:1 chance of getting an interview. If you discard all those apps which don't have the requisite grades, are lacking in extra-curriculars etc., then the figure is much more manageable for HR.

If you get 2:1, As at A-Level, good uni, good extra-curriculars you're pretty much guaranteed to get interviews. It then becomes a question of how you perform at those. I went through 5 before I was offered a TC.

Reply 10

Bhaal85

viviki

Just for you Viviki :wink:

A Grade - 120 Points New System - 10 Points Old System
B Grade - 100 Points New System - 8 Points Old System
C Grade - 80 Points New System - 6 Points Old System
D Grade - 60 Points New System - 4 Points Old System
E Grade - 40 Points New System - 2 Points Old System

And yes, I did type all that out.

Reply 11

iiikewldude

if they're only wanting ucas points im already sorted - i've already got 360 new ucas tariff points from my highers (scottish equivalent of as) which is theoretically the same as 3 As at alevel.

Reply 12

viviki

Bhaal85

Just for you Viviki :wink:

When I have rep to give you will be next in line :wink:

Reply 13

Vitriol

viviki

You're right. However, the number of applications for TCs is so great these days that HR will do anything to get the numbers down. If you want a top firm, you really need excellent A-Levels. They are almost as important as your degree.

Heh, I've spent the last 10 mins trying to post this and thought that there was something wrong with my connection. It turned out that I hadn't placed a / at the end of viviki's quote.

Reply 14

viviki

iiikewldude

if they're only wanting ucas points im already sorted - i've already got 360 new ucas tariff points from my highers (scottish equivalent of as) which is theoretically the same as 3 As at alevel.

They would normally want it in three subjects I would imagine they would have seperate equivalency for the highers.

Reply 15

viviki

Vitriol

Another factor is when you took your A Levels. i know that the party line is that A Levels arent getting any easier but i've heard from friends applying for grad jobs that if you did them a few years ago some firms will accept you on lesser grades than they expect from more recent A Level people.

Reply 16

Vitriol

That's why I think firms look for a minimum of AAB these days. A-Levels are getting easier and law firm applications are rising, which necessitates raising the bar, so to speak.

Reply 17

Bhaal85

In March I should get AAB in my A-levels. I have three questions:

1)Will a good law firm frown or perhaps discriminate against me due to me repeating a year in coolege? Can they find out?
2)Is it worth getting the AAA grades as opposed to the AAB grades?
3)Do they discriminate positively against somebody whom is from two different cultures, yet cant speak any other language apart from English?

Reply 18

viviki

They should do something about the standard of A Levels but I guess no government wants to have a year when pass rates go down when they have been increasing every year for several years.

Reply 19

viviki

Bhaal85

In March I should get AAB in my A-levels. I have three questions:

1)Will a good law firm frown or perhaps discriminate against me due to me repeating a year in coolege? Can they find out?

Depends where you apply not too sure for law firms at the moment but I know from doing big firm grad application forms, some firms ask for all results including resits, some just ask for final results.
2)Is it worth getting the AAA grades as opposed to the AAB grades?

I'd say the better you do the better it is, but it isnt worth resitting again to get the A

3)Do they discriminate positively against somebody whom is from two different cultures, yet cant speak any other language apart from English?
I would imagine not but it could happen you never know.