Durham University

Durham

International Relations at Durham

The course has only been running for a few years so I am concerned with its quality/prestiege. Any current Durham IR students I could talk to?

Reply 1

bethnal_green

I considered applying to Durham as well, but it was the fact that the IR course is relatively new that discouraged me. The univeristy is great though, plus I've been to the city itself (I'm international).
To be honest, I still don't know if it was a mistake that I didn't apply to Durham.
Anyway, my choices are: Exeter, York, Birmingham, Manchester and Sussex.

Anyone else? :smile:

P.S. Hey, I had a chat with you the other day :biggrin:

(edited 13 years ago)

Durham University

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Reply 2

Misha 938

Original post by bethnal_green

P.S. Hey, I had a chat with you the other day :biggrin:

haha yeah I remember :smile:

Yeah I heard some things about Durham IR not being so good which raised concern...

Reply 3

angelmxxx

Original post by Misha 938

haha yeah I remember :smile:

Yeah I heard some things about Durham IR not being so good which raised concern...

I only know 1 person doing IR and she loves it - obviously not a good sample but remember that just because the course is new, it doesn't mean the modules are!

I think what happened was that they looked at modules which students chose (single honours politics students as well as Combined Honours students), and then realised that there was a clear IR pathway, and created a degree which puts those modules together, and probably added a couple of new ones.

Most of the modules you do - if not all - are available to students on other programmes, so it's definitely not an issue that they're all new modules!
"All" the IR degree is, is just the Politics dept sitting down and working out which modules have a specific international focus, and making them core modules in the IR degree.

Have a look at this for the course modules and descriptions:

http://www.dur.ac.uk/sgia/teaching/bainternationalrelations/irorganisation/

(You can compare the IR and Politics degrees using these links...)

Politics single honours: http://www.dur.ac.uk/resources/faculty.handbook/degrees/frameworks/l200.pdf

IR single honours: http://www.dur.ac.uk/resources/faculty.handbook/degrees/frameworks/l250.pdf

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 4

angelmxxx

Original post by Misha 938

The course has only been running for a few years so I am concerned with its quality/prestiege. Any current Durham IR students I could talk to?

Original post by bethnal_green

P.S. Hey, I had a chat with you the other day :biggrin:

Original post by Misha 938

haha yeah I remember :smile:

Yeah I heard some things about Durham IR not being so good which raised concern...

Also, prestige is pretty irrelevant regarding individual courses - obviously Oxford PPE is famous but apart from that, "prestige" is really on in terms of university, and even then it's really not as significant as you would think, unless you're going for a job in investment banking/consultancy/are comparing Oxford and Solent or something.

Reply 5

The Unmerkable

the ultimate thicko course

feel welcome

Reply 6

bethnal_green

I'm starting to regret not applying to Durham now :frown:

Reply 7

River85

Yes it's a relatively new degree, but academics at Durham have been involved in IR (both teaching and research) for many years. It's a growing centre for IR so not completely unknown by any means.

If you have a particular interest in the Middle East and IR of East Asia then it's worth looking at. Or if Durham has a university and location particularly appeals to you. Otherwise there are better value departments (stronger departments with less stringent entry requirements) including Aber.

Original post by bethnal_green

I'm starting to regret not applying to Durham now :frown:

Don't. The department can be a joke at times.

Reply 8

Misha 938

Original post by River85

Do u do IR at Durham? So what would you say between Nottingham and Durham? What about Durham and Exeter? Ty :smile:

Reply 9

angelmxxx

Original post by River85

So can all departments at all unis. For most people, it's a great department which offers a range of modules and interesting lectures and seminars.

If people have the entry requirements to get into Durham, why would they mind about "better value" in the sense that you described it? Most undergraduates wouldn't even notice a change in the "strength" of departments, as they clearly won't be doing research, or having PhD-level conversations. Durham has a varied course (you can do specific middle east/asian modules, general politics modules and IR-themed modules), brilliant graduate employment prospects and an unique collegiate system (Oxbridge's colleges are different as teaching is done in colleges, York and Lancaster's colleges aren't the central focus as Durham's are).

Obviously it's not for everyone, but going somewhere just because it has lower entry requirements and is therefore "better value" is ridiculous. I'm sure that any university which has entry requirements = to 1/4 of Oxbridge's requirements (in UCAS points terms) offer a degree which is far more than 1/4 of Oxbridge's standards...but I very very very much doubt that anyone with an Oxbridge offer would want to go there.

Reply 10

River85

Original post by Misha 938

Do u do IR at Durham? So what would you say between Nottingham and Durham? What about Durham and Exeter? Ty :smile:

I'm not doing IR, no. I started Durham a few years before it started. But I am doing PhilPol so still a student in SGIA and I've taken some of the modules.

If you're chosing between those three then there probably isn't much between them. Nottingham is probably traditionally stronger in IR though I'm not sure if that's really the case anymore. It probably really comes down to course content and location. I don't have experience of the Nottingham or Exeter courses but I don't think they'll be significantly inferior or superior to Durham.

The modules I've taken are

Level 1

Introduction to IR
Ideas and Ideologies
State and Society
Introduction to Middle Eastern Politics
Introduction to Islam State and Government

Level 2

Dynamics of Change in IR
Foundations of Western Political Thought
Foundations of WPT Project
Israel-Palestine Question
Islam State and Government

Level 3

Politics of the Middle East Oil Monarchies

If you want more info about any of them then I'm happy to provide some. Overall my experience of them has been positive or neutral with the exception of State and Society (very dry - don't know anyone who has enjoyed it - taught my William Hague's long lost brother too).

Don't be too discouraged by what I've said about Durham. My concerns are quite general and you may come here and think "what's this guy talking about?". After all there are hopefully going to be improvements in the coming years (I've already seen some in the past year - especially in terms of providing more essay feedback to students).

I didn't start this course originally. I was actually a single honours philosophy student and took some SGIA modules as my "outside electives" in first year. After realising how crap I am at Logic and developing my interest in politics further I changed to PhilPol at the end of my first year.

I've met some significant challenges during my degree including a lack of support and almost being effectively forced out (a problem with college more than departments - something that you don't need to be worried about). If I was that miserable then I wouldn't be here and I wouldn't have fought so hard to return. So that must say something, But at the same time the problems the department has some problems, some of them unique to SGIA and others present elsehwere, but they need to be presented.

Original post by angelmxxx

So can all departments at all unis. For most people, it's a great department which offers a range of modules and interesting lectures and seminars.

No department is perfect, no. But SGIA has some very real problems and more than most. It is my department, I've been here since 2004, I've taken 12 modules in the department. I have a fair bit of experience (some good, some bad).

If people have the entry requirements to get into Durham, why would they mind about "better value" in the sense that you described it? Most undergraduates wouldn't even notice a change in the "strength" of departments, as they clearly won't be doing research, or having PhD-level conversations.

I wasn't referring to research but to teaching and departmental organisation and student satisfaction.

Durham has a varied course (you can do specific middle east/asian modules, general politics modules and IR-themed modules)

It's not incredibly varied to be honest. Have a look at a course offer by pretty much any Russell Group university.

I have already said that for someone with an interest in political thought or middle eastern politics in particular it is well worth considering.

brilliant graduate employment prospects

To be honest the university has some influence there (in terms of the careers service) but I feel that it can be overplayed. Its students to tend to perform well after graduation, that is true, but that is largely down to their ability and social class. Durham takes some of the strongest students in the country so will always be expected to perform well.

and an unique collegiate system (Oxbridge's colleges are different as teaching is done in colleges, York and Lancaster's colleges aren't the central focus as Durham's are).

Already admitted that if the collegiate system appeals then it's worth considering.

Obviously it's not for everyone, but going somewhere just because it has lower entry requirements and is therefore "better value" is ridiculous.

Better value meaning a department at least as good (in Aber's case better) and for a lower offer? All I'm saying is that people shouldn't be misled by the inflated typical offers of Durham - for SGIA programmes anyway. It has high entry standards because it has superficial prestige and a traditional following of students from top schools. Not becuase the department is any better than Aber, Essex, Sheffield or Birmingham.

I have extensive experience and, although I admit that my experience is not typical and there are many happy students, my concerns are legitimate. They are also concerns shared by many other students.

SGIA is well known across this university and others for being a mediocore and poorly organised department. Take some Philosophy SSC meetings for example where SGIA has been unfavourably compared to the philosophy department. Or a Durham graduate who was an active member on this site. He often spoke of how poor SGIA are and the reason why the JH Politics and History programme was discontinued was because so many students were transferring out of the department as they were unsatisfied with its strength (in comparison to history).

It took a bit of a mauling in the Student Satisfaction survey last year. Surely there must be a reason for this?

Teaching can be inconsistant and very uninspired. This is perhaps one of the most frustrating things about the department. But only a problem in a handful of modules (maybe two I've taken - State and Society and Dynamics of Change in IR).

The attitude of some academics leave a lot to be desired and some feel that legal obligations (reasonable adjustments for disabled students) are there to pick and chose whether to follow or not - although this is seen in a number of other departments.

Poor organisation and communication particularly between teaching staff meaning that students are not informed of changes to the course or timetable and therefore miss tutorials or lectures. Important documentation such as DUSSD RRA reports being "lost".

Then there is the problem of it being understaffed. In one module last year was had to wait until the end of Epiphany term before we got our formative essay back. This wasn't the fault of the module convener, who was a great teacher (has left but was only short-term). Just that he was too overworked as the department is understaffed. But I got this formative essay back after handing in my summative so what's the point of doing the formative then?

But it does have some good features. One thing I always liked about SGIA was that tutorials were better structured and more frequent compared to philosophy. Although this is now longer the case - philosophy have improved in this respect. They have began to expand the number of modules available and, yes, some do appear interesting (how interesting they are will depend on the module convener). I'm also interested in its new postgrad programmes. It also has/had some great staff. Bob Dyson has retired now but he was a real asset. Superb.

I've also liked how SGIA academics seem to make better use of DUO than philosophy does. They make more of an effort with module booklets (giving reading lists, information about refencing, more detailed course outlines). It isn't all bad.

That it received a bit of a mauling in the student satisfaction made them sit up and take notice and try and implement changes. Two problems with SGIA in recent years is poor management structure and it being very under staffed. They have a new head now so hopefully improvements will be seen.

This isn't Durham hate, just highlighting some severe problems with SGIA. All departments have their problems but SGIA seem to get a particularly high number of complaints.

If we were talking about the philosophy department here I wouldn't be anywhere near as negative. I'd actually be very positive. But we aren't unfortunately.