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    (Original post by zizero)
    Your comparison with terrorism does not hold water:
    the comparison was one of attitude not the simple one u observed.

    A cannabis-user, a woman who has IVF treatment and a prostitute do not harm other people or society. A terrorist does.

    Even though things that harm society are often assiociated with cannabis and prostitution, smoking pot or selling your body are things that in themselves do not harm society. Hence, there is no reason to ban them.
    can i hear your idea of morality and how to protect it?

    YOU may think that prostitution is morally wrong. That's your right. But who are you to impose your moral standards upon others?
    who is the government to impose theirs?
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    who is the government to impose theirs?
    no one
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    In which case we wouldnt have law at all. Someone has to be the voice of morality. I do think it would make the streets safer to take prostitution off them. And i wouldnt have to walk past the prossies who stand in my road but legalising everything is the easy answer and ignores the moral questions.
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    (Original post by viviki)
    In which case we wouldnt have law at all. Someone has to be the voice of morality. I do think it would make the streets safer to take prostitution off them. And i wouldnt have to walk past the prossies who stand in my road but legalising everything is the easy answer and ignores the moral questions.
    i think you and i recognise the need for some concreted idea of morality. with religion playing a negligible part in society, it is becoming increasingly worrying.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    i think you and i recognise the need for some concreted idea of morality. with religion playing a negligible part in society, it is becoming increasingly worrying.
    I find it really worrying. Where do you draw the line, it seems stupid to me to legalise something just because people are becoming more open about it and things are becoming more popular. The purpose of the law is to enforce moral values. Without that we have no law we had might as well legalise murder.
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    its stupid to legalise things just to sort probems out. That is the easy way out of it. <sarcasm alert> how about we take down the age of consensual sex, huh? I mean, more and more teens at a younder age are having sex, we begin to see a trend here don't we. The age goes lower and lower, so there is no point in enforcing it.

    More and more young 'hooligans' are shoplifting theses days. Much more than 10 years ago. Here is a nother trend. These people abviously need the porn mags and party hats and cards, and food stuffs to survive, so we should really be more lenient towards them. I mean come on, can we really put so many people in jail. The the Government can subside the shopkeepers for their losses. I think this is such a good idea.
    <end sarcasm>

    The point is, our ancestors laid down rules for a reason. Some things have changed as they needed to be. People aren't perfect. Politicans arn't perfect and are not all good, so there must have been rules placed for their own gain. But most laws were there to protect society.

    Now, we wan't to take down these rules without knowing what they were there to prevent.

    Legalising prostitution will make things worse. When it is against the law, it is 'easier' to convict the 'ringleaders' and pimps. Both parties (ie. The prostitutes and 'Pimp Daddies') will be convicted but then in court it will be easier to prove the innocense of the prostitute, (if she was forced into it). But if it was legalised, then the women forced into it could be forced again to sign contracts and **** like that and the police would come along to arrest, get the contract shoved into their faces. The the police would go to the women and say, "Sorry its out of my jurisdiction".

    Things in life are not simple these days, and there is no easy solution. And legalising is easy. Just another way for corrupt people in the Government to make more money out of people's suffering.
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    (Original post by greenrevolt)
    but what do u define as prostitute?
    arent women who get married to rich men and vice versa for their money, prostitutes?
    and are prostitutes only paid with money?
    Lets say I have sex with George Bush so that he wont abolish gay marriages doesnt this make me a prostitute? and a male gay prostitue as such?:P

    Noooo. I meant I could never have sex with complete strangers. I wasn't thinking about all that other stuff you mentioned.
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    What is it that the anti-prostitution folks find so objectionable about prostitution? Sex, Capitalism, or both?
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    the comparison was one of attitude not the simple one u observed.
    ...
    can i hear your idea of morality and how to protect it?
    ...
    who is the government to impose theirs?
    hahaha quote vienna about the term historical conscience:

    "historical conscience? get a grip!"

    I think its my turn now, vienna... get a grip! Morality is nothing you can protect by laws, either a society has this moral standard or not. Looking at the prostitution rates I would say rather not.
    But it is not morally wrong to exclude immigrants from health treatment, right vienna? I love these tendentious definitions of moral...
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    (Original post by ben2111)
    hahaha quote vienna about the term historical conscience:

    "historical conscience? get a grip!"

    I think its my turn now, vienna... get a grip! Morality is nothing you can protect by laws, either a society has this moral standard or not. Looking at the prostitution rates I would say rather not.
    But it is not morally wrong to exclude immigrants from health treatment, right vienna? I love these tendentious definitions of moral...
    Nonsense! Morality is often protected by laws. It's immoral to have sex with your sister wouldn't you agree? And guess what? There's a law that makes it illegal as well.

    But, lets not get on our moral hobby horse here. Exclude immigrants from NHS treatment? Never.

    Exclude illegal immigrants, economic refugees, health care tourists? Damn right.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Nonsense! Morality is often protected by laws. It's immoral to have sex with your sister wouldn't you agree? And guess what? There's a law that makes it illegal as well.

    But, lets not get on our moral hobby horse here. Exclude immigrants from NHS treatment? Never.

    Exclude illegal immigrants, economic refugees, health care tourists? Damn right.
    Hell no, if your sister wants to do it as well, why not? The resentments (which I have too, btw) come from the fact that inbreeding leads to genetic damages which was discovered a very long time ago. But look at the way you set your standards, it is not immoral to exclude an "economic refugee" (here the point might be how this definition is made) from health treatment (which he could obviously not get where he came from) but it is immoral to sleep with your sister, to prostitute etc.
    I am not saying that I do not agree with any of your standards, I just want you to be cautious of their origin and their implications.
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    (Original post by ben2111)
    Hell no, if your sister wants to do it as well, why not? The resentments (which I have too, btw) come from the fact that inbreeding leads to genetic damages which was discovered a very long time ago. But look at the way you set your standards, it is not immoral to exclude an "economic refugee" (here the point might be how this definition is made) from health treatment (which he could obviously not get where he came from) but it is immoral to sleep with your sister, to prostitute etc.
    I am not saying that I do not agree with any of your standards, I just want you to be cautious of their origin and their implications.
    So, sleeping with your sister isn't morally wrong you'd say? But, merely wrong because it results in genetic damage?

    Are you saying that the law is there to stop birth defects and not because it is morally wrong?

    I'd be very surprized to find the law in this respect originated because the legislature wanted to prevent birth defects. As a matter of fact I should think this law is so ancient that at the time it became law the link between incest and birth defects hadn't yet been realized.

    Economic refugees are really not hard to define. They are refugees who transplant themselves to another country with the sole purpose of improving their and their families economic wellbeing.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    So, sleeping with your sister isn't morally wrong you'd say? But, merely wrong because it results in genetic damage?

    Are you saying that the law is there to stop birth defects and not because it is morally wrong?

    I'd be very surprized to find the law in this respect originated because the legislature wanted to prevent birth defects. As a matter of fact I should think this law is so ancient that at the time it became law the link between incest and birth defects hadn't yet been realized.

    Economic refugees are really not hard to define. They are refugees who transplant themselves to another country with the sole purpose of improving their and their families economic wellbeing.
    You are reading something I did not write! I didn´t say the law is not there because of moral ideas, of course it is. But who made the law? I was only talking about YOUR morality, not the ones of ancient societies or even my grandmother´s.
    Most immigrants move because of their economic situation, by the way. I know you probably think the same about historic conscience as vienna but just try to think of why so many people are poor in the world and want to move to Europe. Would you say compassion is part of your (YOUR) morality?
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    (Original post by ben2111)
    hahaha quote vienna about the term historical conscience:

    "historical conscience? get a grip!"

    I think its my turn now, vienna... get a grip!
    come on, im falling asleep already....


    Morality is nothing you can protect by laws, either a society has this moral standard or not.
    laws set social precedents.

    Looking at the prostitution rates I would say rather not.
    But it is not morally wrong to exclude immigrants from health treatment, right vienna? I love these tendentious definitions of moral...
    no, legal immigrants have as much right to health care as any British taxpayer.
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    (Original post by ben2111)
    You are reading something I did not write! I didn´t say the law is not there because of moral ideas, of course it is. But who made the law? I was only talking about YOUR morality, not the ones of ancient societies or even my grandmother´s.
    Most immigrants move because of their economic situation, by the way. I know you probably think the same about historic conscience as vienna but just try to think of why so many people are poor in the world and want to move to Europe. Would you say compassion is part of your (YOUR) morality?
    I know that most immigrants move because of their economic situation and are therefore "economic refugees" which I defined as "refugees who transplant themselves to another country with the sole purpose of improving their and their families economic wellbeing" And?

    I really don't know what Vienna thinks and frankly I couldn't care a less. But, humor me? Why are so many people poor in the world?
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    (Original post by ben2111)
    You are reading something I did not write! I didn´t say the law is not there because of moral ideas, of course it is. But who made the law? I was only talking about YOUR morality, not the ones of ancient societies or even my grandmother´s.
    our idea of morality and the law that defends them come for judeo-christian heritage. as old as the hills.

    Most immigrants move because of their economic situation, by the way. I know you probably think the same about historic conscience as vienna but just try to think of why so many people are poor in the world and want to move to Europe. Would you say compassion is part of your (YOUR) morality?
    just think if all your poor people came to Europe, would the quality of living be as fantastic as they had hoped?
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    (Original post by Howard)
    But, humor me? Why are so many people poor in the world?
    im on the edge of my seat...
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    im on the edge of my seat...
    I think we can predict the answer don't you?
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    our idea of morality and the law that defends them come for judeo-christian heritage. as old as the hills.



    just think if all your poor people came to Europe, would the quality of living be as fantastic as they had hoped?
    oh oh oh I think I am alone against two ;-)))

    Our morality comes from where you say, I never doubted that. I just showed that it is not necessarily useful or right, proven by the fact that Howard could not answer the question why it should be wrong to sleep with your sister since three replies.

    And right too, if everybody came to Europe it would not be what it is. But you have to consider that people who leave home for an unknown place must be very desperate, I do not think anybody would do that, especially since they mostly come from close communities and therefore have strong bounds with home. And I do not agree with treating these people bad, if they are legal or illegal should not always matter. At least not MORALLY, maybe we have to make it matter economically.
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    Oh yeah, and why are there so many poor people? Well, for Africa we discussed it once already (heard of colonialism?), India dito. Of course not all poverty in the world results from Europeans exploiting countries they should better have left alone but a relevant percentage.
 
 
 
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