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EI_123
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#141
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#141
(Original post by vienna95)
i thought you used encarta?

i dont see exactly how anti-communism is related to plurality.
No, I don't need to.
If you don't see it I'm afraid that then you are just stupid and talking to you is pointless.
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ben2111
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#142
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#142
(Original post by vienna95)
i thought you used encarta?

i dont see exactly how anti-communism is related to plurality.
Excuse me? How direct can a link get? Plurality is defined as tolerance towards different ideas! In America you are stamped as communist if you say anything that would still be considered conservative in Germany!
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Vienna
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#143
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#143
(Original post by Eternal Idol)
No, I don't need to.
that'll be a first.

If you don't see it I'm afraid that then you are just stupid and talking to you is pointless.
i was hoping for your rather bizarre explanation, but if you dont have one then..
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EI_123
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#144
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#144
(Original post by ben2111)
Excuse me? How direct can a link get? Plurality is defined as tolerance towards different ideas! In America you are stamped as communist if you say anything that would still be considered conservative in Germany!
Well, I guess that I'm not insane, right?
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zizero
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#145
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#145
(Original post by ben2111)
Germany: around 30 different tiny states before 1870, totally differnet cultures and even languages. United under the interests of a SOCIETY to defend against / attack the French. Since then oe country and still somebody from Hamburg does not understand somebody from Munich, take my word for it.
Just want to put the record straight:
1) It's utter nonsense to say that someone from Munich does not understand someone from Hamburg. Yes, they do have different accents, but it's still the same language, and the average person from Hamburg CAN understand a person from Munich talking in his accent.
A Londoner can also understand a Dubliner, even if the accents are different. The different between Hamburg and Munich is not bigger than between London and Dublin.

2) Before 1870, Germany was not 'around 30 tiny states'. During most of the late 18th/19th Century, Prussia was a dominant force in Germany. In 1870, Prussia managed to take over Germany, because it had grown so powerful. Before 1870, Germany was divided in a number of different states, but they were not 'tiny'. Some of them were, but others were major powers.

3) Germany did not unite in the 'interest of its society' or 'to defend against / attack the French'. It was basically just Prussia progressively taking over all of Germany.
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Vienna
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#146
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#146
(Original post by ben2111)
Excuse me? How direct can a link get? Plurality is defined as tolerance towards different ideas! In America you are stamped as communist if you say anything that would still be considered conservative in Germany!
pluralism related to ethnic, religious or cultural differences, not philosophical and economical doctrines that by their very nature strive for monolithic society.
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EI_123
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#147
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#147
Well, correct me if I'm wrong.

Everyone except vienna95.

Do you agree about that mcarthysm is anything except pluralism?
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JSM
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#148
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#148
(Original post by ben2111)
Excuse me? How direct can a link get? Plurality is defined as tolerance towards different ideas! In America you are stamped as communist if you say anything that would still be considered conservative in Germany!
um germany has a very conservatice government, similar to america, do you know what you are talking about.
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EI_123
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#149
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#149
(Original post by vienna95)
pluralism related to ethnic, religious or cultural differences, not philosophical and economical doctrines that by their very nature strive for monolithic society.
Oh, right, like slavery?
Or maybe, sitting a bus if you are black and is what year? 1960 maybe? ....
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JSM
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#150
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#150
(Original post by vienna95)
pluralism related to ethnic, religious or cultural differences, not philosophical and economical doctrines that by their very nature strive for monolithic society.
i think she got you there eternal
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zizero
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#151
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#151
(Original post by ben2111)
Well the question about the USA and WWII seems difficult. The UN has not intervened in Zimbabwe because there has not been a war yet, how would they go about stopping what is happening? They would need a lot of people. That is what I am saying, they are jsut not big and important enough. But admittedly, the crisis in Zimbabwe would be easier to stop using international pressure - but nobody seems to be bothered except South Africa and they are not strong enough alone.
About Zimbabwe: I think it's rather the opposite. SA seems not to be really bothered about Mugabe and SA would be strong enough to make a huge difference. Unfortunately Mbeki seems to be reluctant to confront Mugabe. If he did put nearly as much pressure on Mugabe as the UK for instance, Mugabe might be gone now!
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EI_123
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#152
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#152
(Original post by JSM)
i think she got you there eternal
I already answered to that too, but please answer to my question because I'm starting to think that I'm the only one that can see a thing so big...
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ben2111
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#153
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#153
(Original post by zizero)
Just want to put the record straight:
1) It's utter nonsense to say that someone from Munich does not understand someone from Hamburg. Yes, they do have different accents, but it's still the same language, and the average person from Hamburg CAN understand a person from Munich talking in his accent.
A Londoner can also understand a Dubliner, even if the accents are different. The different between Hamburg and Munich is not bigger than between London and Dublin.

2) Before 1870, Germany was not 'around 30 tiny states'. During most of the late 18th/19th Century, Prussia was a dominant force in Germany. In 1870, Prussia managed to take over Germany, because it had grown so powerful. Before 1870, Germany was divided in a number of different states, but they were not 'tiny'. Some of them were, but others were major powers.

3) Germany did not unite in the 'interest of its society' or 'to defend against / attack the French'. It was basically just Prussia progressively taking over all of Germany.
well well... I exaggerated a bit with the accents, if you refer it to the average it is not true any longer. But my grandmother (from cologne) does in fact not understand some friends of my mum who speak bavarian!

Yes, prussia was predominant but the 1871 state foundation was not an overtaking of the rest. They were, as much as I remember my history lessons, quite willing and felt better protected being a bigger state. And you cannot say they took over Germany,because Germany did not exist. Existing were Bavaria, Prussia, Baden-Wurttemberg (dont know how to call that in English...) etc many small ones (even thoug for 30 maybe I would have to go further back than 1870, that is true)
It does not really affect my point, my point was that the cultures did not have anything to do with the society that arose.
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ben2111
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#154
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#154
(Original post by zizero)
About Zimbabwe: I think it's rather the opposite. SA seems not to be really bothered about Mugabe and SA would be strong enough to make a huge difference. Unfortunately Mbeki seems to be reluctant to confront Mugabe. If he did put nearly as much pressure on Mugabe as the UK for instance, Mugabe might be gone now!
But Mbeki is a joke, even most black South Africans do not respect him. He was elected in the tradition of Mandela and by far not as capable. He does not have power. I mean the South Africans (black and white) are very bothered and would like to pressure Zim but they cannot really
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ben2111
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#155
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#155
(Original post by JSM)
um germany has a very conservatice government, similar to america, do you know what you are talking about.
hahaha you have no idea, sorry! We have a labour government at the moment, a socialist party how we call them. Remember Iraq war... and look into the laws they pass in Germany!
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JSM
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#156
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#156
(Original post by Eternal Idol)
Well, correct me if I'm wrong.

Everyone except vienna95.

Do you agree about that mcarthysm is anything except pluralism?
vienna had a point mcarthyism was only about socialists- who are all scumbags anyway and who want to install a totalitarian state-so myabe they are not pluralistic. Its like the question about toleration, do you let someone incite racial hatred or do you curb their freedom of speech, do you let someone incite a lack of freedom or do you give them what they want - a lack of freedom
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ben2111
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#157
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#157
(Original post by vienna95)
pluralism related to ethnic, religious or cultural differences, not philosophical and economical doctrines that by their very nature strive for monolithic society.
No I dont think so. Pluralism in fact refers very much to political issues which you have carefully omitted. McCarthy WAS a political issue
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JSM
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#158
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#158
(Original post by ben2111)
hahaha you have no idea, sorry! We have a labour government at the moment, a socialist party how we call them. Remember Iraq war... and look into the laws they pass in Germany!
alright, well my grandparetns live in garmisch - partenkirchen, so quite near you and your government is not really socialist, they are trying to reform the labour laws to stimulate your doldrum economy, and they are doing so in a right wing fashion as their economically left views have failed.
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JSM
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#159
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#159
(Original post by ben2111)
But Mbeki is a joke, even most black South Africans do not respect him. He was elected in the tradition of Mandela and by far not as capable. He does not have power. I mean the South Africans (black and white) are very bothered and would like to pressure Zim but they cannot really
Mandela is a racist terrorist, so that says a lot about him
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ben2111
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#160
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#160
(Original post by JSM)
vienna had a point mcarthyism was only about socialists- who are all scumbags anyway and who want to install a totalitarian state-so myabe they are not pluralistic. Its like the question about toleration, do you let someone incite racial hatred or do you curb their freedom of speech, do you let someone incite a lack of freedom or do you give them what they want - a lack of freedom
OH MY GOD where the f**k do you read such ****? Socialists DO NOT WANT TO INSTALL A TOTALITARIAN STATE!!!! That is a form of the ideology of socialism (or marxism) that is called COMMUNISM even though not even the word communism implies a totalitarian state.
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