White, middle-class rock buffs... Here's some hip-hop you'll enjoy... Watch

spazman21
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DE LA SOUL: Could there be anything more refreshing than differentiating oneself from the mindless gangster rap about drugs, money and "respect."

Take a listen...



This sums up what De La Soul are about... listen to the lyrics....



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Pinball_heart
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I'm honestly lacking in the enjoyment part.
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bognor-regis
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fake and gay
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Mr. Orange
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you lived up to your username spectacularly
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Rob da Mop
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Not enjoying
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spazman21
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(Original post by Mr. Orange)
you lived up to your username spectacularly
Robert Christgau, the dean of American rock critics, gave the album 3 feet high and rising (their debut) an A- (Christgau is a hard man to please) and said it's "unlike any rap album you or anybody else has ever heard."

He was one of the first rock critics to see the importance and brilliance of this revolutionary genre. If you could put whatever prejudices of hip-hop you have to one side, you'd be benefiting greatly from a broadened musical sense of perspective.

Sometimes I think people are too narrow-minded....
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Nichrome
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It sucks.
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spazman21
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(Original post by Nichrome)
It sucks.
Can you tell me why though?

I can tell you why I hate "pop" music or certain electronic genres like hardstyle.

If you can't give an honest, sincere analysis of a piece of music, then it's not worth you listening to anything.
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dnumberwang
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(Original post by spazman21)
If you can't give an honest, sincere analysis of a piece of music, then it's not worth you listening to anything.
haha, what
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spazman21
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(Original post by dnumberwang)
haha, what
Would you like me to elucidate?
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dnumberwang
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(Original post by spazman21)
Would you like me to elucidate?
correct me if i'm wrong but you're basically saying you should only listen to music if you can analyse it
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spazman21
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(Original post by dnumberwang)
correct me if i'm wrong but you're basically saying you should only listen to music if you can analyse it
No, not really. What I meant was that one should listen and listen and listen, not simply hear.

If you can learn to look at a piece of a music in an analytic sense - by that I mean listening closely to rhythm, harmony, lyricsm, instrumentation, composition, melody etc. - then you can gain more benefit, feeling and emotion from music.

People often seem to think that objective analysis and subjectivity are two seperate entities, but if you can learn to incorporate the two when listening to music, you'll gain more satisfaction from your favourite musicians/pieces/albums.


EDIT: I realise this makes me sound extremely pretentious, but this is, honestly, a necessary process if you want to appreciate music.
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Pindar
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Don't expect many people on this forum to appreciate good music. Get some Tribe posted too.
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metalthrashin'mad
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(Original post by spazman21)
Robert Christgau, the dean of American rock critics, gave the album 3 feet high and rising (their debut) an A- (Christgau is a hard man to please) and said it's "unlike any rap album you or anybody else has ever heard."
He does not speak for all white middle class rock buffs. I wouldn't class myself as middle class though having eaten 10p noodles out of a mug earlier today.. but that's besides the point.

Watching the end of a film though at the moment, but I will definitely give them a go, but with all the hip hop I have heard before, whether or not it is good lyrically the music behind it is repetitive and bland, just a simple beat comprising of a few notes repeated ad nauseum. For me lyrics are really a secondary entity, I need good music first to like it, and then if the lyrics are good it's a bonus. Really bad ones can put me off though, like most modern pop music, rap that is just about money and *****es, and anything where the chorus is the same line repeated over and over again (GODDAMN KAISER CHIEFS. Iron Maiden do that a fair bit too which is annoying, as Hallowed be thy name has great lyrics.)

I agree with the point you make about objectivity and subjectivity. While some music might not appeal to someone it can still be musically brilliant. I don't like jazz but I can appreciate how good it is, if that makes sense. I get annoyed when people say no music is better or worse than anything else, it is all the same and subjective, because that's not true. The guys and girl of N Dubz are NOT on a par with Mozart, Beethoven, Pink Floyd, most jazz and prog artists etc. from a purely musical standpoint, and not from an enjoyment typing.

Ah incoherent tired rants about the first thing that comes into my head on a subject.

EDIT: gave all three songs a listen. First - not a fan but I don't hate it, there is worse music out there. 2nd is just awful. Nothing I like about it. 3rd is somewhere between the two. I find it strange how you want people to appreciate composition and instrumentation when these songs show hardly any quality in these areas. Not trying to be a **** but that's just how I see it. Random voices in the background shouting "yo" over and over again are annoying, and I just generally dislike the style of rapping, it isn't really singing (I recognise the irony in this statement seeing how I listen to a lot of music with extreme vocals, death growls and such), but it just seems like talking in an arrogant manner (even if the lyrics are nothing of the sort it's just the way the style sounds to me). He honestly didn't sound much different to most other rappers I have heard. Didn't pay a great deal of attention to the lyrics, but when I first listen to songs I tend to just listen to the music really, unless I am following along with a lyric book or it's extremely clear what they are singing and the lyrics are really good.

All in all though, second song aside and the constant "yo" in the background it wasn't unbearably hideous, which in my eyes is quite impressive when it comes to rap/hip hop , lol (could I ask you to explain the difference if there is any?) I would never choose to listen to it again in a million years though.
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Arekkusu
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(Original post by spazman21)
No, not really. What I meant was that one should listen and listen and listen, not simply hear.

If you can learn to look at a piece of a music in an analytic sense - by that I mean listening closely to rhythm, harmony, lyricsm, instrumentation, composition, melody etc. - then you can gain more benefit, feeling and emotion from music.

People often seem to think that objective analysis and subjectivity are two seperate entities, but if you can learn to incorporate the two when listening to music, you'll gain more satisfaction from your favourite musicians/pieces/albums.
Largely, I believe the converse. Music that is aimed at music buffs - metal riff-****ery, low-fi indie - seems to me much less immediate and less moving than a simple song with largely predictable elements - granted, this is because I know ****-all about music, but that's true of normal people, right, and music is supposed to highlight universals?

I find that having incisive lyrics instead of incisive musicianship makes a song at once accessible and original.

I'm not denying at all that looking deeper into a song cannot make it more moving, but I usually feel that you need to have been hooked by it first. Aficionados of a genre, or of music in general, will require more sophisticated hooks than your average boor on the street.

Sorry for ridiculously pretentious tone of this post, I'm not usually like this.
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polin
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BOB nothin on you!
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spazman21
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(Original post by metalthrashin'mad)
He does not speak for all white middle class rock buffs. I wouldn't class myself as middle class though having eaten 10p noodles out of a mug earlier today.. but that's besides the point.

Watching the end of the film though at the moment, but I will definitely give them a go, but with all the hip hop I have heard before, whether or not it is good lyrically the music behind it is repetitive and bland, just a simple beat comprising of a few notes repeated ad nauseum. For me lyrics are really a secondary entity, I need good music first to like it, and then if the lyrics are good it's a bonus. Really bad ones can put me off though, as can bad voices, like most modern pop music, rap that is just about money and *****es, and anything where the chorus is the same line repeated over and over again (GODDAMN KAISER CHIEFS. Iron Maiden do that a fair bit too which is annoying, as Hallowed be thy name has great lyrics.)

I agree with the point you make about objectivity and subjectivity. While some music might not appeal to someone it can still be musically brilliant. I don't like jazz but I can appreciate how good it is, if that makes sense. I get annoyed when people say no music is better or worse than anything else, it is all the same and subjective, because that's not true. The guys and girl of N Dubz are NOT on a par with Mozart, Beethoven, Pink Floyd, most jazz and prog artists etc. from a purely musical standpoint, and not from an enjoyment typing.

Ah incoherent tired rants about the first thing that comes into my head on a subject.
An incoherent tired rant, but, nonetheless, a very intelligent one.

Regarding the bit in bold, I think it'd depend on the artist. Take, for example, Gil Scott-Heron: he's probably most famous for his political lyrics, which showed tremendous awareness and perceptiveness (listen to Johannesburg). Lyrics in hip-hop are, in fact, one of the most important aspects of the genre- that's why the "beats" are often repetitive: it puts lyrics at the forefront of the music. Also, the "beats" are often meticulously put together and are extensively sampled.

Drum and Bass is built on the Amen Break which originated from Hip-Hop's extensive sampling of the break. However, repetitiveness often makes for a great genre - take punk: it was synonymous with the angry, disenchanted 80's youth, who wanted nothing more than a repetitive, simple, short and sweet diatribe.
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Asha5692
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Not white, but I don't like it.
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metalthrashin'mad
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(Original post by Arekkusu)
Largely, I believe the converse. Music that is aimed at music buffs - metal riff-****ery, low-fi indie - seems to me much less immediate and less moving than a simple song with largely predictable elements - granted, this is because I know ****-all about music, but that's true of normal people, right, and music is supposed to highlight universals?

I find that having incisive lyrics instead of incisive musicianship makes a song at once accessible and original.
Really? I can see how it would make it more accessible, but more original? Both slayer and Gorogoroth have satanic lyrics in a fair amount of their songs but they don't sound anything alike, and seem more original than something with extremely similar music and a different lyrical theme. There are only really several ways to convey lyrics (singing, rapping, growling, screaming, whatever) but so so many ways of making music instrumentally. Then again there can be so many different themes for lyrics. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but lyrics are just one entity, whereas the music can be a massive range of instruments and voices which is why I feel this is more of a scope for originality
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LabyrinthWonder
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Oh dear me, are we not free anymore from a world that continues to judge and dictate other peoples taste in music?!?

I can't stand it when people try to justify their taste/passion for a certain type of music they love. Its more than just rhythms and a beat, its also how you connect with it.

OP: Personally, its not my cup of tea at all. And calling the thread: "White, middle-class rock buffs..." ---REALLY???
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