Is medicine not enough? Watch

Kri
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To clarify then, being a potential medical candidate there is the obvious lurking around all the Medical school threads, however I constantly find myself getting agitated at the amount of people who do not seem to actually sincerely considering where they are applying and going. Many apply without even researching their university, rather simply the looking at the league tables. Surely, getting into medicine is enough of a privilege and comes with its own prestige?

I see quite often people not sure where to go because they have never looked into their choices, rather are simply asking about prestige! Surely all medical universities are very good in themselves and some arbitrary notion of "prestige" should not be the deciding factor for choice of med school.

So as the title says, is not getting into med school enough? There isn't a single med school I would consider "bad" or not "good" yet people seem to be less concerned with their own comfort and personal choice and more with either getting into Oxbridge or simply making a random choice based on some flaky concept of "prestige".

Discuss.
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tibbles209
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The whole prestige thing is meaningless with medicine. When you apply for FY jobs your medical school is kept annonymous so it doesnt make any difference in that sense. The best med school to go to is the one who's teaching methods suit you personally best. I think the whole oxford medicine obsession is largely to do with being able to show off (not saying thats why all oxford medics went there, but im sure its why some did).
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In2deep
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Play to your strengths when applying to Med school, anyone who uses any other arbitrary method is almost certainly doomed to fail.
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Kri
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(Original post by tibbles209)
The whole prestige thing is meaningless with medicine. When you apply for FY jobs your medical school is kept annonymous so it doesnt make any difference in that sense. The best med school to go to is the one who's teaching methods suit you personally best. I think the whole oxford medicine obsession is largely to do with being able to show off (not saying thats why all oxford medics went there, but im sure its why some did).
That reinforces my point even further, I find the whole concept of "Prestige" in medical schools to be somewhat ridiculous.

(Original post by In2deep)
Play to your strengths when applying to Med school, anyone who uses any other arbitrary method is almost certainly doomed to fail.
Agreed :five:
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ShinyT
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I think that if someone is able to get into Oxbridge then why not ? it looks good to say, however, i understand where your coming from, because it's good on itself saying that i've done medicine, but i guess to some it looks better to say i'm doing medicine in Oxbridge
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emilymay
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(Original post by Kri)
To clarify then, being a potential medical candidate there is the obvious lurking around all the Medical school threads, however I constantly find myself getting agitated at the amount of people who do not seem to actually sincerely considering where they are applying and going. Many apply without even researching their university, rather simply the looking at the league tables. Surely, getting into medicine is enough of a privilege and comes with its own prestige?

I see quite often people not sure where to go because they have never looked into their choices, rather are simply asking about prestige! Surely all medical universities are very good in themselves and some arbitrary notion of "prestige" should not be the deciding factor for choice of med school.

So as the title says, is not getting into med school enough? There isn't a single med school I would consider "bad" or not "good" yet people seem to be less concerned with their own comfort and personal choice and more with either getting into Oxbridge or simply making a random choice based on some flaky concept of "prestige".

Discuss.
I know exactly what you mean, I've just got into Leeds Medical School on my second years application (I was rejected without interview from all my medicine choices last year) So having had 2 chances to apply I know exactly what to look for. Last year I was scared of not getting the grades so entry requirements were my single focus, however having the grades in hand to get into any medical school in the country I did not need to consider these this year. My focus was far more on the teaching style of the course, for example Oxbridge was ruled out straight away simply because it does not suit my learning style whatsoever, and PBL was not for me either so I looked only at the integrated courses. Following that I looked into the style of living at the university, sports, drama, music, etc. the actual living part of the uni if you get my drift. I think it's stupid to do it purely off league tables, you have to find a uni thats suited to you in both course style and life style, they're all so different to each other that unless you do your research properly the chances of you finding your style off league tables is low, and if you end up somewhere not suited to you, you're not going to be happy, and you're not going to have fun, you're not going to make friends, and being so down is clearly going to affect how you work. Before you know it you've dropped out of uni.
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7589200
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1. This isnt a current affair. I hate it when people randomly put 'Discuss' at the end of their rant to make it look like its some point everyone wants to talk about.

2. This isn't limited to medicine, this is LIFE. When you get in to any competitive profession, it will always be a rat race. People will try to 'one up' everyone else and ranking/grading medical schools is just a symptom of that. If you don't believe in it and thus you are truly comfortable with it, you wouldn't have made this post. So if you do care, then either try to get into a medical school which you think people think is desirable or genuinely stop caring about it!

I dont mean to be so antagonistic but ive felt like this before until introspection allowed me to see its life not medicine. The bit in bold is what you should really think about!
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Gizmo!
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Well I wouldnt start for a moment thinking that you need to pick a place with the most privilege, because a privilege is something that you enjoy, like a 30% your shopping bill or free use of the ski lodge on your stay abroad. Indeed a privilege to be able to apply to university ... the vast majority dont have the option. Its a privilege to be at a uni that suits your needs...but not simply to be at a posh uni. If that uni dosnt suit your needs, its no privilege, its a dull-as-death sentence for five years.

a privilege isnt a doorway into career that will have you facing lots of rather uninteresting nonstop exams, lost earnings from the extra years at university, a massive debt on leaving university and a job that will put you in an early grave if you do it properly.

although the fairly good eventual wage is a definitely a privilege! and having the time to enjoy your life outside medicine is, you will find, the biggest privilege of all....unfortunately you've shrunk that privilege by choosing this profession.
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Facticity
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(Original post by Gizmo!)
Well I wouldnt start for a moment thinking that you need to pick a place with the most privilege, because a privilege is something that you enjoy, like a 30% your shopping bill or free use of the ski lodge on your stay abroad. Indeed a privilege to be able to apply to university ... the vast majority dont have the option. Its a privilege to be at a uni that suits your needs...but not simply to be at a posh uni. If that uni dosnt suit your needs, its no privilege, its a dull-as-death sentence for five years.

a privilege isnt a doorway into career that will have you facing lots of rather uninteresting nonstop exams, lost earnings from the extra years at university, a massive debt on leaving university and a job that will put you in an early grave if you do it properly.

although the fairly good eventual wage is a definitely a privilege! and having the time to enjoy your life outside medicine is, you will find, the biggest privilege of all....unfortunately you've shrunk that privilege by choosing this profession.
Okay, no one cares.

So would you rather there were no doctors :facepalm2:
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rsp
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I understand what you mean about people using league tables only and agree its pretty stupid going to a university because of its 'name'. But nor do i think it is fair to tarnish everyone with the same brush. I AM NOT thinking of applying to Oxford because i know i wont get in . And I am hoping to apply to a broad range of unis and would be very happy to get into any medical schools. But some people actually want to go to Oxbridge because of the course. I for example really love the fact that Oxford is taught in a traditional way and that it still does pre-clinical years were you can really concentrate on the science side. Not everyone apply just because its 1st in the tables.
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thisismycatch22
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(Original post by Gizmo!)
Well I wouldnt start for a moment thinking that you need to pick a place with the most privilege
Well good because nobody said that. They said "prestige" which, although confusingly it also starts with "pr" and ends with "ge", is actually a different word.

(Original post by Gizmo!)
blah blah I've burned out on medicine blah blah no time for pottery or posting endlessly about poshies on tsr any more blah blah
No one cares.
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Beska
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The debate of "does the prestige of a medical school matter?" is as old as the medical profession itself. True story. This thread is not going to bring up any new or interesting points that haven't been heard literally hundreds of times before.
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hslt
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Best to apply to the course and place that suits you best.
-some have much more scientific depth, but all go to a 'minimum' depth
-some have much more patient contact, but all have a minimum contact
-pbl, traditional, integrated courses all have different benefits for different people

Some med schools are 'better' in as much as their students get significantly higher pass rates in the post uni exams.

Prestige is pointless in applying for foundation jobs, but it probably has an effect later in your career.
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airtones
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(Original post by hslt)
Some med schools are 'better' in as much as their students get significantly higher pass rates in the post uni exams.

Prestige is pointless in applying for foundation jobs, but it probably has an effect later in your career.
They get statistically significant higher pass rates when analysed en mass in papers, not significantly higher pass rates for the actual individual. Person A at university X won't necessarily do better than Person B at university Y.

Also, and I can't stress this enough: Those studies are based on people who went to medical school in the 1990's. How relevant it is to students now you can exrapolate yourself but I would say its basically meaningless.
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hslt
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(Original post by airtones)
They get statistically significant higher pass rates when analysed en mass in papers, not significantly higher pass rates for the actual individual. Person A at university X won't necessarily do better than Person B at university Y.
What the hell else would anyone have thought I meant?
People fail from every university. Obviously. Stop trying to be so PC.


Also, and I can't stress this enough: Those studies are based on people who went to medical school in the 1990's. How relevant it is to students now you can exrapolate yourself but I would say its basically meaningless.
They're very much not though :/

Are you honestly trying to say all med schools are EXACTLY as good as each other. I'm not even saying any particular one is any better, but it's pretty inconceivable that we've managed to completely level the field.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content...1-7015-6-5.pdf

It takes data from as late as 2006, it couldn't be that much more modern and still be testing for performance in MRCP etc. And it shows that over 16 years things were pretty constant. (see page 5 and page 9). Why are you trying to suggest that all of a sudden this trend, present from 1989 to 2005, will have changed and they're all equal. I believe there was also another released quite recently which showed the same thing, I can't find it immediately but will try if you're that desperate to not believe me?

I didn't suggest reasons why these trends exist. I put across an impartial view of the trend. It could be better teaching, a certain type of course is easier to learn, simply some universities take brighter students, some unis teach hard work better, certain universities might end up at better hospitals after graduating, etc.,etc.

Stop trying to be so PC and pretend that everything in the world is equal.

End of the day, even if one med school is 'better' than another, there is little point in going to it if the course, environment, teaching methods and town don't suit you. Of course you can do fine anywhere, and all med schools will churn out plenty of respectable doctors.

****s sake.
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7589200
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(Original post by hslt)
What the hell else would anyone have thought I meant?
People fail from every university. Obviously. Stop trying to be so PC.




They're very much not though :/

Are you honestly trying to say all med schools are EXACTLY as good as each other. I'm not even saying any particular one is any better, but it's pretty inconceivable that we've managed to completely level the field.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content...1-7015-6-5.pdf

It takes data from as late as 2006, it couldn't be that much more modern and still be testing for performance in MRCP etc. And it shows that over 16 years things were pretty constant. (see page 5 and page 9). Why are you trying to suggest that all of a sudden this trend, present from 1989 to 2005, will have changed and they're all equal. I believe there was also another released quite recently which showed the same thing, I can't find it immediately but will try if you're that desperate to not believe me?

I didn't suggest reasons why these trends exist. I put across an impartial view of the trend. It could be better teaching, a certain type of course is easier to learn, simply some universities take brighter students, some unis teach hard work better, certain universities might end up at better hospitals after graduating, etc.,etc.

Stop trying to be so PC and pretend that everything in the world is equal.

End of the day, even if one med school is 'better' than another, there is little point in going to it if the course, environment, teaching methods and town don't suit you. Of course you can do fine anywhere, and all med schools will churn out plenty of respectable doctors.

****s sake.
If you hadnt made the points of:

1 statistically significant is the only objective way to compare things and obviously there is bound to be overlap ie. person A (bottom quartile) from good university < person B (top quartile) from less good university

2 the data is taken over many years and its quite recent and thus quite relevant

then i wud have!

good post!

But i think the argument people make is, does that paper show that graduates from oxford are more likely to become consultants than graduates from say dundee or just earlier...and..this is only the MRCP, what about the MRCS etc etc
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Gizmo!
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(Original post by thisismycatch22)
Well good because nobody said that. They said "prestige" which, although confusingly it also starts with "pr" and ends with "ge", is actually a different word.
ahh, they did say it, macca, but you FAILED to notice it -
(Original post by OP)
Surely, getting into medicine is enough of a privilege




(Original post by droppedcatch)
No one cares.
then why care to reply?
double fail much? cheers.
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Organ
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(Original post by Beska)
The debate of "does the prestige of a medical school matter?" is as old as the medical profession itself. True story..
Did Hippocrates stay awake at night sweating about whether UCL or Oxford is more impressive then?

This thread is not going to bring up any new or interesting points that haven't been heard literally hundreds of times before
Agreed.
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Fusilero
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(Original post by In2deep)
Play to your strengths when applying to Med school, anyone who uses any other arbitrary method is almost certainly doomed to fail.
Agreed. Made the mistake of asking my UCAS tutor "what are the easiest ones to get into" last year and got four straight rejections. Played it much more tactical this year. :yes:
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Gizmo!
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(Original post by Facticity)
So would you rather there were no doctors :facepalm2:
exactly how do you extrapoloate my post to mean that?

be specific, or fail and facepalm yourself.
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