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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    Your opinions and debating-style are more suited to the pub. I'm sure you'll find there many racist pissheads who will agree with your 'old-skool' bigotry.

    "Nah mate, I mean I ain't racist but, you know... They're ****in' takin' over. We're like the red Indians in America, gettin' forced out our own country. And this ****in' Labour are helpin' 'em destroy us. You and me mate, we gotta fight back. No one else cares about keepin' Britain for the proper British. I love you mate..."
    i was overhearing almost the exact same convo in the pub i work at last week, Higgy were you there
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    If he had gone through the required citizenship process and obtained a passport, of course he'd be English.
    Many white British people are incapable of forming a coherent, grammatically correct sentence. (such as Higgy)
    I don't suggest confiscating their 'Englishness'.

    And why is a Greek's opinion on our society important? I thought you'd know, this is OUR country, not theirs.
    He'd be British, which is a legal definition as well as a cultural one. He wouldn't be English by common definition or usually by his own claim.
    People from the White British group were more likely to describe their national identity as English (58 per cent) rather than British (36 per cent). However, the opposite was true of the non-White groups, who were far more likely to identify themselves as British. For example, three quarters (76 per cent) of Bangladeshis said they were British, while only 5 per cent said they were English, Scottish or Welsh.

    http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=459
    That stat about Bangladeshis is telling. Even in a census of British citizens, only 81% will claim a "national identity" of either British, English, Welsh, or Scots. 1 in 5 won't even admit they are British at all!
    Paxman quotes the late, black, labour MP Bernie Grant as saying that he would rather be introduced as 'Black British' than English. This hybrid label 'Black British' is appropriate 'because it includes other oppressed people like the Welsh or the Scots. It would stick in my throat to call myself English.' His statement deserves closer examination. Grant appears to imply that the 'English', 'Welsh' and 'Scots' are 'peoples' while the 'British' are not, at least not in the same way. A particular view of the past is also taken as read. The 'English' are cast as historic oppressors while the term 'British' becomes a more neutral label to which the term 'black' can be safely linked. Grant sees himself as belonging to a dual identity, 'black', by implication founded on skin colour and 'British' founded on a looser identity, closer perhaps to legal citizenship of the British state. This citizenship is shared by the English, Scots, Welsh and black people but not on an equal basis, for Grant defines black, British identity against one of these peoples, the English. The shared legacy of past oppression unites Scots, Welsh and blacks as historic victims of another people, the English. In shifting the term 'British' away from a more traditional notion of nationhood, Grant was actually taking part in a much wider discourse about how the concepts of 'nation' and 'Britishness' are 'imagined' in the future.
    Yea, sure, predictably for a Black and a Communist, it's all about victimhood and unjust racial guilt and blame, but I think this approach is more common to all non-English minorities, including the Welsh and Scots who have always been more likely to describe themselves as just that, rather than British.

    It's a long time since Samuel Coleridge Taylor said defiantly, "they call me Mister Tibbs!" Or something.
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    If by "blatant anti-white racism" you mean "vaguely inconsistent reporting" then perhaps.
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    My attitude is not 'old skool' as was so nicely put, im just stating my beliefs, granted some people wont like them but more people than you care to think, see along the same lines as me they're just scared of being shot down by the PC brigade so say nothing!
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    If he had gone through the required citizenship process and obtained a passport, of course he'd be English.

    And why is a Greek's opinion on our society important? I thought you'd know, this is OUR country, not theirs.
    You're ignoring my question entirely.

    OK, so I'll change the nationality from Greek to Scottish. If a Scottish man met said newly-arrived black African, would he automatically consider him to be English? Would he say to his friends "Och, Donald, I met an Englishman earlier on!"? Of course he wouldn't! Just like an Englishman would not call an immigrant Pole living in Scotland a 'Scotsman'; he would be refered to as being 'Polish'!

    And if you are going to moan at this example, what about a Northerner who met a recent Indian immigrant who lives in London. Would said Northerner say "You Southerners are great people."?
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    (Original post by Atomik)
    You're ignoring my question entirely.

    OK, so I'll change the nationality from Greek to Scottish. If a Scottish man met said newly-arrived black African, would he automatically consider him to be English? Would he say to his friends "Och, Donald, I met an Englishman earlier on!"? Of course he wouldn't! Just like an Englishman would not call an immigrant Pole living in Scotland a 'Scotsman'; he would be refered to as being 'Polish'!

    And if you are going to moan at this example, what about a Northerner who met a recent Indian immigrant who lives in London. Would said Northerner say "You Southerners are great people."?
    But who cares? That person is legally a Brit, and has every right to tell people that he is.
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    But who cares? That person is legally a Brit, and has every right to tell people that he is.
    Yeah, he paid his £34 to take a citizenship test - he simply must now be British! :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Aristogeiton)
    Yeah, he paid his £34 to take a citizenship test - he simply must now be British! :rolleyes:
    Yes, he must.
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    Sarcasm is lost on you.
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    (Original post by Aristogeiton)
    Yeah, he paid his £34 to take a citizenship test - he simply must now be British! :rolleyes:
    I didn't take a citizenship test.

    That came in after my time.
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    oh well.......

    A trained monkey could pass the thing anyway as it's so easy, so I doubt that you'd fail even if you did take it now.
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    But who cares? That person is legally a Brit, and has every right to tell people that he is.
    But most people would still regard him to be English.

    Say you were doing some student exchange thing, and you were told that an Italian guy would be staying with you. And, say you were really interested in Italian culture, so you were very excited about this move. How would you feel if a Chinese person, who showed no Italian traits whatsoever, turned up at your door? You'd feel slightly gutted, no?

    Now, if the guy was of Asian ethnicity but was BORN in Italy, or had at least lived in Italy for a number few years and learnt the Italian language etc., it would be a different story. But what if he was somebody who had only lived in Italy for a month or two, and only spoke a few words in Italian, let alone in English?
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    (Original post by Atomik)
    But most people would still regard him to be English.

    Say you were doing some student exchange thing, and you were told that an Italian guy would be staying with you. And, say you were really interested in Italian culture, so you were very excited about this move. How would you feel if a Chinese person, who showed no Italian traits whatsoever, turned up at your door? You'd feel slightly gutted, no?

    Now, if the guy was of Asian ethnicity but was BORN in Italy, or had at least lived in Italy for a number few years and learnt the Italian language etc., it would be a different story. But what if he was somebody who had only lived in Italy for a month or two, and only spoke a few words in Italian, let alone in English?
    It's pretty obvious that a first-generation immigrant would retain significant aspects of their culture of origin. The same cannot be said of second and subsequent generations, who inevitably become increasingly assimilated into the adopted culture, whilst often maintaining some elements of their culture of origin. What point are you trying to make?
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    That point that newly-arrived immigrants into England cannot fully be called 'English'.
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    (Original post by spk)
    It's pretty obvious that a first-generation immigrant would retain significant aspects of their culture of origin. The same cannot be said of second and subsequent generations, who inevitably become increasingly assimilated into the adopted culture, whilst often maintaining some elements of their culture of origin.
    Not so much now. At one time this was true because immigrants interacted with the other inhabitants of their new homeland and lost contact with their earlier cultures. Nowadays the "British Raj" model- whereby children are carefully removed or isolated from the culture around them and indoctrinated in their ancestral culture- is much easier for everybody. If it cost a lot and took a long nime and considerable danger to reach your homeland you lost touch more easily. if it took a day's flight and a few quid then your identity and your childre's identities are much more based in your original culture.
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    PAGE 1 OF 3
    The Times December 03, 2005

    In Britain's courts, does it matter if you're black or white?
    By Sean O'Neill
    The sentences handed out for two recent murders suggests an unexpected discrepancy


    TWO identical acts of kindness that led two young men to violent deaths have been recounted before the criminal courts in the past fortnight.

    Anthony Walker and Christopher Yates, concerned about female friends late at night, walked with them to bus stops in Liverpool and London respectively to make sure that the women got home safely. Both were set upon, not far from homes they shared with their mothers, by other young men from their own neighbourhoods who had been drinking heavily or taking drugs.

    In Huyton, Liverpool, Mr Walker, 18, who was black, was attacked by Paul Taylor and Michael Barton and killed with a savage blow to the head with an ice axe. They were sentenced to at least 24 years and 18 years, respectively. In Barking, East London, Mr Yates, 30, a white man, was knocked to the ground and kicked and stamped on by Sajid Zulfiqar, Zahid Bashir and Imran Maqsood.

    Every bone in his face was broken in a ferocious attack. Afterwards, Zulfiqar boasted in Urdu: “We killed the white boy. That will teach a white man to stick his nose in Paki business.”

    But while a judge in Liverpool decided that Mr Walker’s murderers were racists — and therefore liable to more severe jail terms — an Old Bailey judge decided that Mr Yates’s murderers had not been motivated by racial hatred. Zulfiqar, Bashir and Maqsood were sentenced to 15 years in prison, the minimum tariff for murder.

    The similarities between the two murder cases, and the differences in their outcomes, has left the Yates family feeling that it has been treated unequally. “I understand what Mrs Walker and her family are going through. We are going through exactly the same thing,” Rose Yates, Mr Yates’s mother, told The Times.

    “But it appears to me that we have experienced a different measure of justice than they have experienced.”

    Mrs Yates, a thoughtful woman who has taught children of many races and creeds, pondered long and hard before making this comment. Like Gee Walker, she sat through every day of her son’s killers’ trial. She heard how the three men who killed her son had also screamed racial abuse at a black man and carried out a violent assault on a second black man. In the end, Mrs Yates concluded “it seemed that they had something against everyone who was not of their own race”.

    The judgments in the Walker and Yates cases reflect a reluctance by the authorities — police, prosecutors, judges and politicians — to recognise that ethnic minority groups can be perpetrators as well as victims of racism.

    The question of anti-white racism makes the political class uncomfortable. But it is a very real phenomenon.

    A Home Office report reveals that of the 22 homicides classified as racially motivated between 2001-04, the majority of victims (12 cases) were white.

    There is growing anecdotal evidence of a more aggressive Asian youth culture which manifests itself in racist attacks against whites and blacks.

    The increasing aggression is the result of the growing sense of victimisation and isolation felt by many in the Asian community. Young people from Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities feel victimised by police after the July 7 attacks; some are also fired by the rise of political Islam and anger over issues such as Iraq.

    Shifting demographics in East London are also fuelling incidents. In Tower Hamlets and Newham, Asian communities sense encroachment from the growth of the City and Canary Wharf and the stirrings of gentrification since the successful 2012 Olympic bid.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...901952,00.html
    On page 2 and 3 there are short summaries of the Parker, Hopley and Donald murders.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    PAGE 1 OF 3On page 2 and 3 there are short summaries of the Parker, Hopley and Donald murders.

    I Had heard that the Gavin Hoppley case had been officially closed by the police even though the murder is still unsolved. Imagine the outcry if he had been black or Asian and this happened, But then again if he had been the police would have made a real effort to find the murderers especially if they had been white
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    (Original post by thebucketwoman)
    Yes, he must.
    Typical labour-supporter!! :congrats: :laugh:

    thebucketwomen, you can't simply become British. If a dog was born in a stable, that doesn't make him a horse now does it? No, I am a white anglo-saxon British, I am British because my fore-fathers were anglo-saxon, I have anglo-saxon blood in me, so I am British.

    Now if an Asian came here, he's just a British citizien, nothing else, he's just labelled "British Citizen", that's it, I have every right to still call him an Asian because he doesn't have any British blood in him, he doesn't have British heritage, he is still Asian but he is living in Britain. His past lies in Asia, so he is still Asian.
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    (Original post by Batazer)
    Typical labour-supporter!! :congrats: :laugh:

    thebucketwomen, you can't simply become British. If a dog was born in a stable, that doesn't make him a horse now does it? No, I am a white anglo-saxon British, I am British because my fore-fathers were anglo-saxon, I have anglo-saxon blood in me, so I am British.

    Now if an Asian came here, he's just a British citizien, nothing else, he's just labelled "British Citizen", that's it, I have every right to still call him an Asian because he doesn't have any British blood in him, he doesn't have British heritage, he is still Asian but he is living in Britain. His past lies in Asia, so he is still Asian.
    They like to call themselves British Asians or British Muslims these days which goes to show that they are Categorising themselves as a separate culture.
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    (Original post by Batazer)
    If a dog was born in a stable, that doesn't make him a horse now does it?
    Oh god, not that one again. Can't you lot think of a new one?
    Is this written on the back of BNP membership cards or something?
 
 
 
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