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    (Original post by Batazer)
    That's going back millions of years. When there weren't many cultural differences between civilizations. Or when there weren't many civilizations at all.
    Modern humans have only been around for 200 000 years. It therefore seems quite arbitary to claim that the anglo-saxons are "indigenous" to the British Isles since they only came over in the past 1000 years. Blacks and Asians have been with us in numbers since at least the past couple of hundred years and more so since the past 50. Where's the difference?

    Humans are only indigenous to Africa, nowhere else.
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    (Original post by spk)
    Modern humans have only been around for 200 000 years. It therefore seems quite arbitary to claim that the anglo-saxons are "indigenous" to the British Isles since they only came over in the past 1000 years. Blacks and Asians have been with us in numbers since at least the past couple of hundred years and more so since the past 50. Where's the difference?
    The difference is that they're not indigenous to these islands, they have their ethnical difference that lies in Asia/Africa.
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    (Original post by Batazer)
    The difference is that they're not indigenous to these islands, they have their ethnical difference that lies in Asia/Africa.
    Who is indigenous to these islands? No one.

    The earliest known inhabitants (neolithic people) were quite different to the celts, who were themselves quite different to the romans, then angles, jutes, saxons, vikings, normans etc. But even the neolithic people were never indigenous to these islands - the human race evolved in Africa 200 000 years ago.

    The idea that people of "anglo-saxon" ancestry have some kind of exclusive indigenous claim to Britain is white supremacist nonsense.
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    (Original post by spk)
    Is there a technical definition as to how far back in time you have to go to be regarded as indiginous? The Angles, Jutes and Saxons only arrived about a thousand years ago. How come they get to be indiginous, yet blacks that arrived earlier with the Romans are refused that right?

    If someone is born on a previously uninhabited desert island, would they be indiginous? Indeed, is prior occupation by other people a barrier to being regarded as indiginous? In which case, the anglo-saxons cannot be indiginous to these isles, as they were already inhabited before their arrival. And the anglo-saxons were just one variety of indo-europeans who migrated out of Africa, so in that sense, humans can only really be defined as indiginous to Africa.
    You're talking about "peoples", not individuals. The "English people", obviously, are indigenous to England. The Jutes are not. The Saxons aren't. The "Black-British" people, as an example, if they stick around and forge a strong, rooted, and sustained national identity in Britain might reasonably claim one day to be one of the indigenous peoples of Britain. But at the moment they are ill defined, one-foot here, one-foot there, shifting back and forth and divided among themselvesby their own national backgrounds. And they aren't English.

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    (Original post by spk)
    The idea that people of "anglo-saxon" ancestry have some kind of exclusive indigenous claim to Britain is white supremacist nonsense.
    What's the term for your refusal to allow others to define their own nations? Aracial supremacist nonsense?

    Just be fair.
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    (Original post by spk)
    How can you be so certain? I'm sure many people of Zulu origin have come here to live over the years. Surely you can't be saying that English people of afro-carribean descent are not English? Can you? Really?


    Sorry, I thought you already knew - you raised the issue, not me:

    "The Zulu are an African ethnic group of about 11 million people who live mainly in KwaZulu-Natal Province, South Africa. Their language derives originally from Bantu; more recently from the Nguni subgroup."
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulu

    If a Zulu family adopted a white South African, he would be Zulu too.
    "The Zulu are an African ethnic group..."
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    (Original post by Atomik)
    "The Zulu are an African ethnic group..."
    Watch 'Last of the Mohicans'!
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    (Original post by ayaan)
    Watch 'Last of the Mohicans'!
    Daniel Day Lewis might have assimilated into that tribe, could 500 Daniel Day Lewis's have assimilated?

    Is it worth talking about ancestry when thinking about some of the most important areas of life? Should Doctors here treat all individuals as though they are a "New British Race", should we all be tested for Tay-Sachs or sickle-cell, to name two of many health problems which afflict racial (ancetral) groups massively disproportionately. Or do we need labels which include some nod to our ancestry (race).

    If you want to talk about cultures, call it a Mohican culture, but there needs to be a recognition that there is a "Mohican people" with ancestry as a component part.
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    You know, I only saw half that film, and it confused me somewhat: why did that girl throw herself off that cliff again?

    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Is it worth talking about ancestry when thinking about some of the most important areas of life? Should Doctors here treat all individuals as though they are a "New British Race", should we all be tested for Tay-Sachs or sickle-cell, to name two of many health problems which afflict racial (ancetral) groups massively disproportionately. Or do we need labels which include some nod to our ancestry (race).

    If you want to talk about cultures, call it a Mohican culture, but there needs to be a recognition that there is a "Mohican people" with ancestry as a component part.
    Blah, blah, blah.

    You can go on!
    It's pretty much a natural process isn't it?
    You yourself said that if afro-caribbeans had been here for centuries you'd consider them ethnically British/English. Who's to say that won't happen in the future?
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    (Original post by ayaan)
    You know, I only saw half that film, and it confused me somewhat: why did that girl throw herself off that cliff again?

    Blah, blah, blah.

    You can go on!
    It's pretty much a natural process isn't it?
    You yourself said that if afro-caribbeans had been here for centuries you'd consider them ethnically British/English. Who's to say that won't happen in the future?
    Haven't seen it. Can't watch the guy.

    I did? Doubt it. And it wouldn't change the fact that the new Brits, a hybrid of the current and the a-cs would have a very different probability of developing sickle-cell anaemia than any newly arrived Japanese or Polish immigrant. (assuming the Japansese and Poles remain Japanese/Polish.)

    What word will you allow for the English to include an ancestral component which divides them from a Black newly arrived from Jamaica who apparently can be English too. And why not just call the Black a Jamaican? Why the need to destroy an historic national group? That's the result when you won't even allow it a word to describe itself.

    I believe the Jewish in New York have gone a long way to eliminating Tay-Sachs through what are effectively eugenic practices. Should the same eugenic practices for the same purpose have been adopted by all Americans, because Jews aren't really Jews but just Americans?
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    I think that people born in England are English.

    Immigrants are British citizens.

    What you call English people, I'd describe as 'anglo-saxons'.
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    (Original post by ayaan)
    I think that people born in England are English.
    Don't say that, it pisses me off! Ow - Instant emotional reaction! You're denying a people it's exclusive national identity and heritage, and appropriating their name that they have claimed and been known by around the world for over a thousand years.
    Immigrants are British citizens.
    Immigrants who have British citizenship yea.
    What you call English people, I'd describe as 'anglo-saxons'.
    What's an anglo-saxon?
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Don't say that, it pisses me off! Ow - Instant emotional reaction! You're denying a people it's exclusive national identity and heritage, and appropriating their name that they have claimed and been known by around the world for over a thousand years. Immigrants who have British citizenship yea.What's an anglo-saxon?
    Why not?

    Well obviously, if you're just born in England that isn't enough, my sister was born in Egypt, has citizenship, but only lived there for all of a year. She's not Egyptian.

    But what if a black person has lived in England for several generations, a hundred years or so. Are they English?

    You know what anglo-saxon means.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Don't say that, it pisses me off! Ow - Instant emotional reaction! You're denying a people it's exclusive national identity and heritage, and appropriating their name that they have claimed and been known by around the world for over a thousand years. What's an anglo-saxon?
    1) Surely people born in england= english ISNT denying national identity, its the opposite?!!?!?

    2) How can you not know what an anglo saxon is?????
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    He lives in Oxford and goes to Leeds, I'd assume.

    And being at Oxford doesn't automatically make you intelligent. Ask bikerx.
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    (Original post by ayaan)
    He lives in Oxford and goes to Leeds, I'd assume.

    And being at Oxford doesn't automatically make you intelligent. Ask bikerx.
    haha, i just glanced and saw oxford/leeds and presumed it was home in leeds, studying in oxford.

    ooooooooooooooooooh (bikerx)!!!!!!!
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    (Original post by Atomik)
    "The Zulu are an African ethnic group..."
    Yes... what of it?
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    (Original post by Atomik)
    "The Zulu are an African ethnic group..."
    Yes... what of it?
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    Spy007 and Ayaan, I didn't know what an Anglo-Saxon is/was, I just knew I wasn't one and that they didn't seem to be around anymore.

    The Anglo-Saxons were a group of Germanic tribes from Angeln, a peninsula in Schleswig-Holstein, Germany, protruding into the Baltic Sea, and what is now Lower Saxony in Northern Germany, who achieved dominance in southern Britain from the mid-5th century to the mid-11th century, forming the earliest basis for the modern English nation, language and culture.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon
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    Spy007 and Ayaan, I didn't know what an Anglo-Saxon is/was, I just knew I wasn't one and that they didn't seem to be around anymore.

    The Anglo-Saxons were a group of Germanic tribes from Angeln, a peninsula in Schleswig-Holstein, Germany, protruding into the Baltic Sea, and what is now Lower Saxony in Northern Germany, who achieved dominance in southern Britain from the mid-5th century to the mid-11th century, forming the earliest basis for the modern English nation, language and culture.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    The Anglo-Saxons were a group of Germanic tribes from Angeln, a peninsula in Schleswig-Holstein, Germany, protruding into the Baltic Sea, and what is now Lower Saxony in Northern Germany, who achieved dominance in southern Britain from the mid-5th century to the mid-11th century, forming the earliest basis for the modern English nation, language and culture.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon
    Exactly. So, although it is correct to refer to the national culture of England as originating partly from the anglo-saxons, it is incorrect to refer to any of the current inhabitants as "anglo-saxons".
 
 
 
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